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More People Like ObamaCare Because They Have Learned to Maximize the ACA System.

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posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: ravenshadow13
a reply to: ravenshadow13

Like sure maybe some people write off yachts or whatever but some of us are also dead broke trying to get our businesses off the ground so.


You replied to yourself but I'm the only one to mention "yachts" so I'm assuming you meant to reply to me.

I'm in the same boat as you. My point was that we have to do what we have to do. For people like us who are struggling as entrepreneurs and for those who are just struggling in general, the struggle is noble.

For those with yachts, the struggle is gross.




posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: Abysha

It is the physicians that have learned to navigate Obamacare that have the yacht.
Move the cheese?



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: carewemust


"Cost Sharing Reduction Subsidy".....


the Slick Lawyers are the ones to finger... not the clients


in my experiences, there arise groups of niche' Lawyers who cultivate a crowd of 'beneficiaries' from some sort of specialized expertise... the CSR Subsidy is just another 'rule/law' that is exploited for the benefit of the few...


there's a far flung sub-culture of Lawyers who specialize in getting Earned income , annual refunds for thousands of dollars to a goodly represented class of chronically out-of-work, women on the dole...

a close relative has had the scheme going on for more than 15 years, the kids are all grown & the eldest even has a newborn himself, the younger brother is turning 20 this Sept.... but the EIC keeps pouring in & the professional filer keeps advancing the EIC recipient a boatload of funds until the actual tax money is received at his business --- to then disburse


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So, if the gov't has a dole-out possible.... the mechanisms of the markets will create the experts to 'milk' the system, be it: Earned Income Credits or the Cost Sharing Reduction Subsidy of the ACA Law.... the schemers & civilian underbelly of the economy will be on-top-of-it
edit on th31150132806629342017 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 10:54 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: carewemust

It's no different than anything else. The rich will cheat on their taxes, the poor will remain poor due to lack of upward mobility, and the middle class will do their damnedest to stay middle class.


It's not "cheating". It's simply hiring an accountant to look where any taxes due can be reduced through payments to pensions, charities, savings, purchases (homes) and interest payments which become tax deductions. Then those take you into a lower tax bracket saving you further tax payments.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 10:58 AM
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Great plan!! Awesome!! Everyone should do it..... right?

And just how long do ya think they will allow that to go on before that loop hole gets closed..... or if the IRS decides to scrutinize and score themselves a hefty set of fines in the process.

Its one thing to pad your Deduction to church write off...... but I want no part in any of that little tax maneuver it just reeks of trouble



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: carewemust
I once worked with a lady who knew exactly how much overtime she could work before she hit the magical thresh hold and end up losing her kid's chips coverage... and believe me, it didn't matter what job we were working on, or how important it was to get out that day... she never went over that amount of hours!! this was during the bush years, so you can't blame obamacare for it.

how is this any different that what you are describing here?
and, well, what's you suggestion as to how we can stop discouraging people from opting to be "needy" in the gov'ts eyes to remain on these programs? considering that I know for a fact that dhs workers at one time would tell parents to split up so the mother and her very ill child could go on welfare and get the medical care they needed...
I would really like to hear some suggestions as to how to stop this!!! it probably plays just as big of a role, if not a bigger role to the increasing number of "needy" on the gov't programs than the "lazy, stupid, didn't plan well" bit that the conservatives often try to imply is the problem!



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: luke1212
a reply to: carewemust

last time i had insurance it was pretty decent price and $100 deductible. no idea how you think $1k is a small amount. obamacare screwed the system big time. it needs to be removed not replaced.


Even seniors have a $1,300 deductible, plus they have to pay 20% of the cost of all medical treatments.
Ref: medicare.com...

So, a $1,000 deductible in 2017 isn't bad at all for someone still working.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: c2oden
And this is why we can't have nice things.


Maybe you set your sights too high, C2Oden? If the U.S. goes to Single-Payer, most Americans will have to accept a lower standard of living.


I'm not advocating single-payer.
Your post proves how flawed up Obamacare is.



Yes..ObamaCare uses a huge amount of resources, just to help a relative few. There are much more efficient and smarter methods for ensuring that all Americans enjoy the high-quality healthcare that America has.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: carewemust


My parents are in their 80's and are delighted with Obamacare and Medicare. They are just jubilant that every month they have to decide which drugs they can't afford so that they can pay their taxes to keep their property and home they built. Then they have to worry about food!


So I guess you could say they have learned to maximize?




Your parents don't have ObamaCare, because they're in their 80's. But if they were under age 65, it sounds like their income would enable them to maximize ObamaCare, and avoid the hard Medicine vs Food decisions that they're saddled with now.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: Pyle
a reply to: carewemust

If you are not doing what you can to get everything out of the systems we are given dont get mad when others do. I learned this in the military. They offer alot of things that they dont specifically tell you about or how to get those things but you cant get mad when other figure it out. Instead ask them how they got it so you too can get it.


Exactly! For instance, way back in the 1980's, I learned that owning ANY kind of business opened the door to a plethora of tax deductions for reducing your tax bill to Uncle Sam.

The vast majority of Americans were (and maybe still are?) too lazy, or cynical, to learn the system. Like you, I learned in the military how (because of hearing loss) the V.A. would pay my full college costs, apartment rent, and buy me a car, after I was discharged.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: Throes

originally posted by: Kettu

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: carewemust

It's no different than anything else. The rich will cheat on their taxes, the poor will remain poor due to lack of upward mobility, and the middle class will do their damnedest to stay middle class.


I disagree with your supposition that rich people cheat on their taxes. It isn't cheating to use the existing system to your advantage.


...A system they lobbied to get created in order to benefit them.

The "average" person can't donate 20k to a SuperPAC and attend expensive fundraiser dinners to push for "favors". When you have money, your vote matters more. Period.

The Princeton study clearly shows that "the preferences of the average American upon public policy decisions is statistically insignificant".

But, if you belong to the segment of the population with $$$? A smaller segment?

You get your way. It's how it works. You create a gamed system so you can game it.


Look at Bernie Sanders as an example of how to game the system, the advocate against the 1%ers!! Pays 13%, Trump paid a higher rate..


Bernie represents why a "flat tax" has never been given serious consideration. He, and the others who have crafted tax laws over the decades, know how to create enough deductions to keep their tax rate below what it would be, if a 15% or 20% "flat tax" was in place.

Any working person can do the same thing if they TRULY want to. Home-based businesses are a good place to start and even someone with meager assets can get it rolling. But only if they TRULY want to.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: St Udio


"Cost Sharing Reduction" subsidies are paid the health insurance companies. They use these funds to keep their lower-income, working class ObamaCare customers from paying high premiums, and high deductibles.

It's only in the last 2 years that people who earn middle/upper-middle incomes, have learned how to tap into the CSR health insurance plans. Usually its an accountant that helps them do this, but on occasion an attorney is utilized as well. The savings in premium dollars and health insurance deductible out-of-pocket expenses, are well-worth paying money to the professionals for their assistance and guidance.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:38 PM
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originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: carewemust

It's no different than anything else. The rich will cheat on their taxes, the poor will remain poor due to lack of upward mobility, and the middle class will do their damnedest to stay middle class.


It's not "cheating". It's simply hiring an accountant to look where any taxes due can be reduced through payments to pensions, charities, savings, purchases (homes) and interest payments which become tax deductions. Then those take you into a lower tax bracket saving you further tax payments.


Stormcell, if a majority of Americans took the initiative to do what you're doing to reduce your taxes, and keep more of your hard-earned money, the system/rules would be changed. Congress designed the game so that only those with the proper "drive" would learn the rules.

As you can see from many ATS posts, and society in general, most people are cynical in nature...which is good news for those who are not.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: carewemust

It's no different than anything else. The rich will cheat on their taxes, the poor will remain poor due to lack of upward mobility, and the middle class will do their damnedest to stay middle class.


I disagree with your supposition that rich people cheat on their taxes. It isn't cheating to use the existing system to your advantage.

You overlook that the system is like that in the first place because rich people have disproportionate sway on politicos.

One of the principal concepts in political science is power - and money is power.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: Greven

You're 100% correct, unfortunately. Special interest lobby groups shaped the tax-code via Congress. Pretty much every one of our government's major programs are shaped in that manner.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 12:56 AM
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originally posted by: c2oden
And this is why we can't have nice things.


It's why we can't have sustainable government run health insurance, definitely.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust

...if a majority of Americans took the initiative to do what you're doing to reduce your taxes, and keep more of your hard-earned money, the system/rules would be changed. Congress designed the game so that only those with the proper "drive" would learn the rules.


Sadly, if you earn $25,000 to $40,000 or so....have no mortgage or other deductible debt, have no children, have no investments you are pretty much screwed.
I'd love to hear how income can be reduced when you have nothing much to deduct.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe



I'd love to hear how income can be reduced when you have nothing much to deduct.





Well You Could... file for a LLC... cost about $400....

the Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) status allows for lots of deductions... and is also used as the vehicle to become a precious metals stacker or many other physical assets held in a self directed IRA
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posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 09:23 AM
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Basically, we're becoming Greece where tax dodging is an art and the by product is that most everyone is doing what the lady you described is - living off those who are trying their best to be honest and obey the spirit of the law as well as the letter.



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

You generalize one case to describe the facts of millions.




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