Senate GOP Effort to Repeal Obamacare Fails - 'Skinny Repeal'

a reply to: JinMI

I will say this, her vote likely wasn't about money so much as it was about saving her butt in Alaska next election cycle. She's not in the Senate because Republicans voted her there. Joe Miller beat her for the nomination 6 years ago and the only thing that got her to DC was a write-in campaign from the handful of anti-TEA Party Republicans and a large number of liberal Democrats who were scared to death Miller would destroy the Dem candidate.

She would switch parties and run as a Dem if not for her massive financial ties to the oil companies.

This is the ugly side of Alaska politics... we have social Democrats who are big oil puppets throughout our politics up here. There are those in AK politics who actively call for high personal income taxes and sales taxes while calling for reduction in oil corp tax rates, increases in state paid oil subsidies, and massive increases in social spending for those making mid-middle class wages and down. It is extremely lop sided here... with most of our wealth coming in the form of oil managers, finance execs, and equipment suppliers who live (and are paid) in states like WA and Texas, freeing them from paying income taxes should Alaska enact them. Our famous commercial seafood industry really brings nothing into the state money-wise aside from the shellfish industry which is largely locally owned. The average trawler company working here is owned out of Seattle or Asia and employs mostly Asian or Russian visa workers, they pay our lawmakers for the privilege of bending the state's sport fishermen and subsistance fishermen over a barrel and the state as a whole sees nearly nothing in economic return for it.

I'm ranting. I'd actually like to see Murkowski get a cabinet appointment so she can GTFO of Alaska and never run for anything here again. We are in a bad recession up here currently and the sole bright spot is that people are moving out of the state and back to the Lesser 48... most of those leaving are transplants and tend to vote for all those wanting to throw handfuls of magic beans at the Kept Voters, of course paid for out of the pockets of the rest of us. If the recession lasts long enough, maybe Alaska will be a more sparsely populated paradise when it's all said and done and those of us not going anywhere will sure as hell enjoy the peace and quiet.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

This guy?

Joe Miller

Is that the guy you're talking about? It says he admired East Germany:

Miller stated at a town hall meeting that he believed East Germany was an example of a nation taking effective measures to control the flow of people across a border.

Or is there another guy in Alaska named Joe Miller or something?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Having never been to AK nor being very familiar with the politics there, I'm not surprised by the words in your post. It's no secret that big oil runs things up there and in turn returns some monies back to the citizens. I've no idea how much nor does it matter. Decreasing oil business tax while raising personal tax is the government thing to do. I mean more money into their pockets right!!

Careful what you wish for. Michigan's former Governor is currently a political contributor for a few MSM stations and would have surely been given a cabinet position would there have been a D white house. This woman (Jennifer Grandholm) has no business representing anyone. Given that she was Canadian born, then to California to attend Berkely, surprise, surprise.

These clowns catch the cash coming and going. Party affiliation is becoming less clear.

originally posted by: Apollumi

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: seeker1963

Meanwhile the "evil" 1% laugh their asses off while the middle class picks up the bar tab for half the nation.

I think it is far worse than this. I think most of the money doesn't even go to the other half of the nation. I "suspect" we are paying somebody's bad debts/bets off or worse. It's a money grab. A very evil money grab while confusing people as much as possible and keeping them divided.

It's all the rage to have one half of any nation fighting the other half these days. A house divided is very profitable.

Can we call it the Uniparty and the Globalists win?

a reply to: Kettu

That's the man. For context, he was referencing the Berlin Wall because he served in Germany while he was with the Army and was stationed somewhere along the wall, so he saw the effectiveness of the wall and the Soviets' border controls first hand.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Kettu

WASHINGTON — Obamacare stays. For now.

Senate Republicans failed to pass their pared-down Obamacare repeal bill on vote of 49-51 in a dramatic late night vote that caps a months-long process of trying to fulfill a seven-year promise to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Three Republican senators, Susan Collins, John McCain and Lisa Murkowski, and all Democrats voted in opposition to the bill, dealing a stinging defeat to President Donald Trump, who made repeal of Obamacare a key promise of his 2016 campaign.

Cowards, all 3. Once again John McCain waves his RINO flag and while I certainly didn't vote for Murkowski, I find it utterly shameful that she is from my state. I really, really wish Joe Miller was holding that seat. The vote would have been very different and a lot more in line with the expectations of Conservatives Murkowski falsely claims to represent.

How do you think Trump is going to punish Alaskans for her vote?

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Kettu

WASHINGTON — Obamacare stays. For now.

Senate Republicans failed to pass their pared-down Obamacare repeal bill on vote of 49-51 in a dramatic late night vote that caps a months-long process of trying to fulfill a seven-year promise to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Three Republican senators, Susan Collins, John McCain and Lisa Murkowski, and all Democrats voted in opposition to the bill, dealing a stinging defeat to President Donald Trump, who made repeal of Obamacare a key promise of his 2016 campaign.

Cowards, all 3. Once again John McCain waves his RINO flag and while I certainly didn't vote for Murkowski, I find it utterly shameful that she is from my state. I really, really wish Joe Miller was holding that seat. The vote would have been very different and a lot more in line with the expectations of Conservatives Murkowski falsely claims to represent.

How do you think Trump is going to punish Alaskans for her vote?

Trump doesn't need to punish Alaskans. He can destroy her simply by using Twitter! roflmao

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Kettu

WASHINGTON — Obamacare stays. For now.

Senate Republicans failed to pass their pared-down Obamacare repeal bill on vote of 49-51 in a dramatic late night vote that caps a months-long process of trying to fulfill a seven-year promise to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Three Republican senators, Susan Collins, John McCain and Lisa Murkowski, and all Democrats voted in opposition to the bill, dealing a stinging defeat to President Donald Trump, who made repeal of Obamacare a key promise of his 2016 campaign.

Cowards, all 3. Once again John McCain waves his RINO flag and while I certainly didn't vote for Murkowski, I find it utterly shameful that she is from my state. I really, really wish Joe Miller was holding that seat. The vote would have been very different and a lot more in line with the expectations of Conservatives Murkowski falsely claims to represent.

How do you think Trump is going to punish Alaskans for her vote?

Trump doesn't need to punish Alaskans. He can destroy her simply by using Twitter! roflmao

The only person he destroys in twitter is himself as it shows the levels of stupidity he can attain.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Kettu

WASHINGTON — Obamacare stays. For now.

Senate Republicans failed to pass their pared-down Obamacare repeal bill on vote of 49-51 in a dramatic late night vote that caps a months-long process of trying to fulfill a seven-year promise to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Three Republican senators, Susan Collins, John McCain and Lisa Murkowski, and all Democrats voted in opposition to the bill, dealing a stinging defeat to President Donald Trump, who made repeal of Obamacare a key promise of his 2016 campaign.

Cowards, all 3. Once again John McCain waves his RINO flag and while I certainly didn't vote for Murkowski, I find it utterly shameful that she is from my state. I really, really wish Joe Miller was holding that seat. The vote would have been very different and a lot more in line with the expectations of Conservatives Murkowski falsely claims to represent.

How do you think Trump is going to punish Alaskans for her vote?

Trump doesn't need to punish Alaskans. He can destroy her simply by using Twitter! roflmao

The only person he destroys in twitter is himself as it shows the levels of stupidity he can attain.

I live in PA where health insurance has increased by 120 percent since Democrat CARE. Don't really care if you are offended by Trumps tweets. Don't read them?

a reply to: JinMI

Could you point out examples where doctors have denied life saving care because of no insurance?

Chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis treatments, and a lot of other life saving medical treatments aren't covered by visits to the emergency room. Or are you not counting these long term treatments that require health insurance? Where my Dad lives, they don't even give simple MRIs to emergency room patients.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Is there documented proof to where life saving service was denied due to lack of insurance? Honest question.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Kettu

And in the end, a group of senators voted in the middle of the night to take away healthcare from millions of Americans ..

False.

No one is taking nor denying healthcare. This is insurance. Until this point is acknowledged the whole thing remains a bunch of bullsnip.

R nor D has the balls to buck the industries (Pharma/Insurance) to actually address the realities of the people they claim to represent.

1. The bill would cause premiums to go up an additional 20% next year alone.

2. The bill removed pre-existing condition protections and reinstated the ability for insurance companies' to have lifetime caps.

3. It was a trap for moderates. Once in conference they could add in the elements like Medicaid cuts that the moderates balked at before and the choice would be that or crashing the insurance markets with the skinny version of the bill

4. Did I mention it would crash insurance markets?

5. 16 million est to lose insurance in the employer and private markets (is 6 million who got insurance through work would lose it).

6. Senate process for bill was unprecedented in a bad way - no one wanted the skinny version to actually become law yet they were being asked/ arm twisted to push it through with assurances that Ryan and the House wouldn't ever vote it into law, that it would go into conference. This is nuts. (See trap above).

7. Bill would cause rural hospitals to close thus hurting entire regions.

8. The ACA markets are stable. The states that chose not to expand Medicaid are the ones complaining that they aren't getting equal dollars for Medicaid, which is a bunch of hooey.

9. The healthcare law was a hot mess. The process being used to ram it through was a hot mess, making every loud Rep complaint about how the ACA passed into a farcical hypocrisy. It would have kicked them in the butt come mid-terms.

10. McCain warned them what he would do in his floor speech. He voted to move things forward to give them a chance to rethink and reject the mad nonsensical dash towards a "win" that would be a "lose". He allowed those that needed cover to be able to say they tried to repeal the ACA.



The good news is that now they can begin a bipartisan effort with normal rules of order. Maybe they can fix what is wrong with the ACA while keeping what works. They may have to keep some form of the mandate, but it may be handled differently.

Or they can even start over and hammer out a new law from scratch which could actually pass via a process of wrangling and compromise- that's what the senate is designed to do.

Either way, it's better than the crap they were determined to push through.

And for what it's worth, yes, people would lose access to healthcare. You can't get organ transplants or chemotherapy or tons of other life/death procedures if you don't have insurance and can't prove you can pay for it independently. Don't pretend repeal was some kind of magic panacea that would fix all the problems inherent in our insurance based healthcare because that is simply flat out wrong.

This isn't a "loss" but an opportunity.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Is there documented proof to where life saving service was denied due to lack of insurance? Honest question.

There are multiple ways this happens. One is people don't get regular checkups and wait until issues become serious and possibly life threatening before seeking care if they don't have insurance.

The other way this happens is people need some kind of treatment that they are not qualified to pay for, such as cancer treatment or an organ transplant.

Finally, there is medications for chronic conditions. These can be more expensive than insurance and if you can't pay out of pocket you don't get them, and if you don't get them you are at risk. My son would die without his meds - they are not optional.

Here are some examples: D ying without insurance

a reply to: JinMI

Do emergency rooms cover chemotherapy and other forms of cancer treatments? Honest question. Once one of those forms of cancer reaches a certain point, they're incurable & will kill the person regardless of what a doctor tries in an emergency room. This is also true of many other diseases and conditions.

You're asking a trick question & you know it.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I'm pretty sure he/she knows this. They try to play innocent but they know full well the ramifications of denying people healthcare. I've concluded that they just don't care who dies over it.

What a shambles. Poor Trump can't get anything done.

a reply to: Kettu


The hybrid system of Medicaid/Medicare/Free-Market Private Insurance for everyone under age 65 is on it's way. Moderate Republicans will team with Democrats to make this happen.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I've concluded that they just don't care who dies over it.

That's the mindset of the typical conservative "Christian". Money over everything

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Kettu

It was stupid any way I couldn't believe what I was hearing. They said they wouldn't vote for it unless they knew it couldn't pass. They were voting for a bill that they didn't want to pass?? It's like saying I want to take the drivers test but don't want a license.

And we put these people in office seriously??

In this case, taking the driving test in a clown car.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Kettu

And in the end, a group of senators voted in the middle of the night to take away healthcare from millions of Americans ..

False.

No one is taking nor denying healthcare. This is insurance. Until this point is acknowledged the whole thing remains a bunch of bullsnip.

R nor D has the balls to buck the industries (Pharma/Insurance) to actually address the realities of the people they claim to represent.

1. The bill would cause premiums to go up an additional 20% next year alone.

2. The bill removed pre-existing condition protections and reinstated the ability for insurance companies' to have lifetime caps.

3. It was a trap for moderates. Once in conference they could add in the elements like Medicaid cuts that the moderates balked at before and the choice would be that or crashing the insurance markets with the skinny version of the bill

4. Did I mention it would crash insurance markets?

5. 16 million est to lose insurance in the employer and private markets (is 6 million who got insurance through work would lose it).

6. Senate process for bill was unprecedented in a bad way - no one wanted the skinny version to actually become law yet they were being asked/ arm twisted to push it through with assurances that Ryan and the House wouldn't ever vote it into law, that it would go into conference. This is nuts. (See trap above).

7. Bill would cause rural hospitals to close thus hurting entire regions.

8. The ACA markets are stable. The states that chose not to expand Medicaid are the ones complaining that they aren't getting equal dollars for Medicaid, which is a bunch of hooey.

9. The healthcare law was a hot mess. The process being used to ram it through was a hot mess, making every loud Rep complaint about how the ACA passed into a farcical hypocrisy. It would have kicked them in the butt come mid-terms.

10. McCain warned them what he would do in his floor speech. He voted to move things forward to give them a chance to rethink and reject the mad nonsensical dash towards a "win" that would be a "lose". He allowed those that needed cover to be able to say they tried to repeal the ACA.



The good news is that now they can begin a bipartisan effort with normal rules of order. Maybe they can fix what is wrong with the ACA while keeping what works. They may have to keep some form of the mandate, but it may be handled differently.

Or they can even start over and hammer out a new law from scratch which could actually pass via a process of wrangling and compromise- that's what the senate is designed to do.

Either way, it's better than the crap they were determined to push through.

And for what it's worth, yes, people would lose access to healthcare. You can't get organ transplants or chemotherapy or tons of other life/death procedures if you don't have insurance and can't prove you can pay for it independently. Don't pretend repeal was some kind of magic panacea that would fix all the problems inherent in our insurance based healthcare because that is simply flat out wrong.

This isn't a "loss" but an opportunity.

Excellent, well-reasoned response.