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Top US general promises no changes in military transgender policy for now

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posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Then why are the surgeries being propped up as well its inhumane and evil if we're to not expect them to get admitted after them AND get them while active duty AND taxpayers have to pay for it too.

That's about the dumbest move you could ever make if you want the majority to succeed. Otherwise it speaks to political sabotage with them as the pawns and the surgeries as the BAIT.

It's seriously the best thing you could ever hand the people that truly are against the whole lot of them.

At least in the mega thread yesterday after like dozens of pages of me badgering the issue some came around to reasonable / compromise on that detail.

But to me its so obvious, like the thing where Obama took the restrooms down to effing kindergarten level, where the idea was to encourage the kids use the other restroom. Meaning encourage them to paint a target on their back by isolating themselves in there (kids who mostly probably wouldnt otherwise and may be just fine) when its standing out in ANY way that gets kids bullied (which means just them getting the special treatment alone could add to the bullying while it doesnt solve bullying for all the other kids). So here it was pushed so far parents would rightfully shriek, to push more kids in and get them singled out. All so when a conservative repeals it they get branded as monsters. Seriously, Obama leads the lib's like pied piper and he worse than Bush ever was. Bush was pretty much just a war monger. Well so was Obama. And yet Obama's the SAINT, and Bush is the ultimate scum that ever walked the earth? Hell, at least Bush was kind of funny.




posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

I agree with the latter half of your response, but the link still does not say that they didn't know anything about it--it mentioned that they don't know exactly what the directive will be, but not that they didn't know anything about it.

Regardless, not that big of a deal.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Spur of the moment to take the focus off of Sessions And the Russians.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

None of that has anything to do with transgenders being in the military and able to serve adequately. You trying to drown me in information about trans struggles doesn't magically validate your reasoning on keeping them out of the military. It just makes you look like an asshole who uses one struggle in a minority community to promote another struggle in the same minority community.


So the one with the botched surgery is a perfect candidate for military service? Basically, people who are transitioning have a raft of medical issues that make them less than ideal, just like people with flat feet.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

I have news for you Mattis found out when the rest of the world found out.
There was zero consultation on this. It's a spur of the moment ill thought out but strikingly controversial enough to distract decision. Probably thought it would get the hard right to stop fussing over Sessions and his treatment of him. Probably thought this would make the conservatives happy.
He doesn't have a clue what republican ideology is. He's winging it.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think your statement is true. For one flat footed issues are no longer a thing.

Diabetes?

If a transperson is qualified and medical condition is a comparable and equal to other allowed conditions this is just political bs.

What if this Trans person is the best sniper in the world for instance. Or an exceptional analyst?



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Jesus, the viagra defense? Aren't you supposed to be super smart or something?
First off, the viagra is given to all vets, active AND RETIRED, and the amount given to active duty is small of that, you likely knew that, but felt the dishonest approach was best, sad.


According to the data, active-duty troops received just 102,885 scripts for ED meds, totaling $7.67 million.

link to the facts that you somehow omitted.

If you have ever served, you would understand that Morale is a key component of the military. There is even a whole division dedicated to ensuring that it's members have good morale. It's called MWR, Morale, Welfare, and Recreation.


Unless you did serve, you likely don't understand this component to the full extent and I suggest you factor that in with all the "feelings" when it comes to national security and the readiness of the Military that is supposed to protect our nation.


ETA:
another key component is the sex change surgery. (as your viagra example, poor as it is, tried to explain) the initial cost is whatever it is. Then the soldier gets out. Because his surgery was done on active duty, anything in the future that arises from it, will have to be dealt with by the VA. Like if there are complications, (a high percentage have that, look it up), or they change their mind and want to go back. (that happens as well, look it up) So the cost is far more extensive than getting wood once. It's a shame most aren't equipped to debate this due to emotional baggage.

edit on 27-7-2017 by network dude because: added fact.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: network dude

So Kristen beck's should never serve?

I don't think the president had any feelings in mind when he tweeted a possible policy change effecting soldiers in some cases decorated.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Okay good go down to the VFW hall, talk to dozens of Gulf War and dozens of Vietnam vets. Ask them how the experimental drugs did them. And the Agent Orange. Try to find people with rough lungs, ask them if the weapons platforms they were firing were made of DU.

All that stuff can readily knock you dick in the dirt.

But quick every liberal out there Viagra Shame the vets.

And act like you actually care about human beings is why you are doing it!


Or perhaps you could actually provide a citation for off label uses of the medication in question. It's not up to anyone else to support or refute your statements, it's on you to support them. It looks much better to provide a citation than resorting I ad hominem rants.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Byrd

Of course it won't be implemented right away. I wasn't aware a US president can rule by tweet.


Apparently, Trump believes he can. It's quite stupid for him to take an idea he would like to implement, you know, if he can and they can figure it out, and immediately turn it into a Tweet as statement of fact. We're days away from his next "who knew" moment.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Here is my opinion on that. IF a trans person kept their sexual issues to themselves, and served/serves with honor, no issue at all. But when you want special treatment, like a sex change, you take yourself out of active service for personal reasons. Aside from the fact that you are now getting paid, and not doing your job, you now will have a lot of normal soldiers who know/knew you that have some sort of issue/question about this and will not be focused on their job at hand, due to the attention drawn to the transgender person.

This isn't about hate, or being meant to Trans folks, it's about readiness and focus.

ETA AGAIN:
If being trans is a confusing thing for the individual, sort that our before you put yourself and others at risk in a combat situation. Lives are at stake.
edit on 27-7-2017 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Most trannys do not opt for sexual reassignment surgeries. They live their lives in the bodies they were born with . They just do it as the sex they identify with. Breast augmentation or reduction and hormone therapies are the most common surgeries if they make any change to the body at all.
My only experience with this was very long ago in the sixties. I was a child.
The man dressed as a woman. Wore makeup grew his hair out changed his name to Susan, but he never got any surgery. I don't think it was available back then. Or was so very rare that he didn't seek it.
Funny thing was, he lived with and was partners with a woman. He was not just a cross dresser. He considered himself a woman. Of course most of this was gleaned from snatches of conversations the adults were having. They sure didn't discuss it with me.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I mostly agree with that, however trump did not clarify this at all.

What if the transition is done and it's just the same expense to maintain as other allowed conditions?

There are possibly 11k Trans soldiers serving so this is an issue with more nuance than tweets should be doing. That is what any sane person would be saying.

You can debate the readiness and ability but thereally are many positions in the services. You act like it's all infantry.

Read his tweet. It ain't what you said at all.

Kristen beck?
edit on 27-7-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: luthier

where so you get your numbers? yesterday the official report stated there were less than 2500 Trans members serving.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

where so you get your numbers? yesterday the official report stated there were less than 2500 Trans members serving.


Every study except rand. Which also has a number of up to about 7k by the way.

The rand study also clearly shows how little the cost is while we are at it.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Why would a surgery take years to recover from?
My mom had triple bypass and was doing Disney world three months later.
Broken bones take a few months.
Back surgery a few weeks.
Breast implants a few days .
Why is it different for transgender reassignment?



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

where so you get your numbers? yesterday the official report stated there were less than 2500 Trans members serving.


Every study except rand. Which also has a number of up to about 7k by the way.

The rand study also clearly shows how little the cost is while we are at it.


Did the cost study factor in the lifetime issues that the VA will have to pay for?

I am against the idea of Trans people having surgery or coming out about their sexual identity while in the Military. It's just my opinion after having served. Yesterday, we were told that Trump talked to his Generals and came up with this. I am willing to bet that is true, but it was an off the record type of talk, and being the guy Trump is, he tweeted about it before looking into the bigger picture. (he made a mistake) But I fully agreed with what his tweet said.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: luthier

where so you get your numbers? yesterday the official report stated there were less than 2500 Trans members serving.


Every study except rand. Which also has a number of up to about 7k by the way.

The rand study also clearly shows how little the cost is while we are at it.


for what it's worth:

Given that the issue of transgender troops may be unfamiliar to many readers, we thought we’d check Pocan’s claim that more than 15,000 are serving in the military. No official data The Pentagon has said it does not know how many transgender people serve in uniform because until 2016, they faced discharge if they revealed their identities. A Pentagon spokesman did not reply when we asked if the the Pentagon has any estimates. The U.S. Census Bureau also does not collect data on sexual orientation or gender identity.

www.politifact.com...



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Why would a surgery take years to recover from?
My mom had triple bypass and was doing Disney world three months later.
Broken bones take a few months.



Yes, riding the tea cup at Disney World requires the same physical ability as door to door combat in Iraq.



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