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Millions Paying 10k Plus inHealth Care Premiums and Remain Afraid

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posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
I don't have the answers. ObamaCare is one big fiasco, but once a Big Bloated Government Slush Program goes into affect, it is hard to get rid of it.


We have reached a time in America where the backs are breaking for middle class working families. They pay through the nose so the poorer segments of society can continue to receive benefits.



It not just overtaxed to pay for social programs and helping the "poor". Its these glutton big money clubs we have to pay out everyday. Insurance firms, petroleum, electric and natural gas ect charge way to much. They are like monkeys on our backs. We are stuck in the middle and carry the load like a mule and no one really gives us a good dam.
edit on 27-7-2017 by Logarock because: n




posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: JinMI

But maybe a whole lotta pain is the only way the GOP agrees to single payer..


I send a message to WhiteHouse.gov every few days, recommending:



Hopefully, this is what will come out of this Repeal-Replace mess. After being implemented, the government can work to bring down these crazy medical care prices in America.



This would have to be an anti-trust sort of effort. Our representatives are not really committed enough to the american people to bring that around.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: Zerodoublehero

originally posted by: Logarock

All we hear about are those that will lose their insurance if the AHCA is axed. Nothing much about the reality millions of hard working americans face since this monstrosity was passed.


Here is some real numbers from someone you would put in that category.

Yearly salary - 52,000$

Monthly insurance payments - 750$
(For me and my daughter only) through work.

Yearly deductible - 5,000$

Tell me how that's affordable?

Last year I had to get knee surgery so with my insurance cost, deductible, co pay cost & physical therapy I was out about 15,000$ which has turned into debt I am now paying off.

It's not working for everyone that is for sure.



Yes prime example of whats going on while the press (sales arm of big money) sets around and talks about just the poor and the moral arm (representative jaw jackers) talk about the moral and social obligation. Didn't McCain say that we bitching were only interested in our own economic situation? Only a god d*m politico talks like that. I am sorry I voted for him.

Heck the Republican Gov of Ohio, his solution was to raise the poverty line to 35,000 a year in this state!



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: toysforadults

The only way a free market will solve this is a very very heavy handed regulatory system.

If this is left to the corps you will see monopolies and collusion to set prices. Medical and phone services are very different. Medical service is a inflexible cost, one that a person absolutely needs to live. Phones are a flexible cost, and in almost all cases are not a life or death service.

The electrical/gas companies in most areas are a monopoly that is heavily regulated and works very well. In my opinion this is the way the market should work for pricing in medical.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

At my last job, over a year ago, the new firm that bought the place came in one day to offer insurance. The rates were so high that, and I am not exaggerating, for an employee with wife and two kids, 90% of income monthly would have been required to participate. No one signed up. No one even talked about the 1000 pound whatever in the room. I wanted to ask "are you serious?"

When costs of doing business and nearly a requirement for good medical attention gets this high then it really should be looked into as bloodsucking and gouging.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

Yep, the thing that makes little sense is the fact that there are systems from all over the world that work better and cheaper.

We will either adopt a system that works or it will fail. It is that simple.

By the way a side effect is that the burden on medical care would go away. Business would no longer have this benefit to deal with. But they would also loose many employees who would now have the freedom to leave now that medical is a right, not a benefit.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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Insurance has never been meant to help with "preexising conditions". That's not insurance. It's unreasonable to expect insurance to cover that.

But you still need *something* to help. I don't know what to call that *something*, but "insurance" is definitely the wrong word for it.


originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist
a reply to: links234

With government plans, a patient may not get dropped from coverage, but that does not mean everything will be covered.

I submit medical exception requests through Medicaid and Medicare on a daily basis, if I had to put a number on it about 60% get approved. The others we have to scramble to find a cheaper drug that may be less effective.


You're hitting the nail on the head. This is the problem right here: is that you are required to use the most effective drug. It is an exploitation of patent monopoly, where the law goes one step further. Rather than merely protecting the manufacturers right to exclusively produce their invention, it goes one step further and also makes it illegal NOT to use their invention.

Patent monopoly is never a burden on the economy, so long as everyone is free to choose an inferior product. If you don't like the price an inventor is charging for their latest and greatest mousetrap, you can still go to the store and buy the old version for less.


Designer drugs, when they are first released, often have hundreds of millions of dollars of research behind them. Thats hundreds of millions of debt/investment that the maker needs to pay back. That gets included in the price.

Buy a drug from 17 years ago, with a patent that has expired, and you'd be paying next to nothing.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: bloodymarvelous




Buy a drug from 17 years ago, with a patent that has expired, and you'd be paying next to nothing.


How about super expensive things like the cost of knee and hip surgery that is reaching epidemic proportions due to ageing population and obesity factors!

Some of these surgeons have an overstock of `48 Buick ball joints they have invested in and need to install.
Very lucrative business especially with the revision surgery that often follows.

Current health insurance often doesn't cover techniques like laser micro surgery and artificial cartilage options.
What doctor in their right mind would want to make less money pursuing options like these?



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

We had some friends who just divorced to save money that would be taken away for insurance if they would have stayed together. They were told to try to sell their house and be prepared to clear out their 401k for her long term medical. They divorced but didn't sell anything she took nothing in the divorce not a dime. That's what they had to do to survive retirement after 42 years together.








posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: mikell


What a downright horror. This is not even insurance. This is blood sucking.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: XanderGray
The free market is not the answer. The free market cares only about profit -- it doesn't care one iota about whether people who can't afford to help them generate a profit are covered.


That's problem, they've made you think it was a free market when in actuality it's been far from it for a longtime. It is a fixed, closed market with price fixing, price collusion, anti-competitive, monopolistic and price disparate activities that result in greed.

You don't even know what a free market is or how it should operate, nor what effect that would have on costs when you say what's above.

Lasic eye surgery or cosmetic procedures are great example as they've never been part of the medical scam system - prices going down, services up - strictly due free market forces you dissed.

Medical industry as a whole in cooperation with your government officials abhors free market as it would result in 50-80% of the money now spent remains in your pocket, not theirs.

I'm sure your solution involves government which is just as guilty in current mess by not upholding anti-trust laws.

Trading one greedy master for another is just plain crazy.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: queenofswords

Medicaid and Medicare were founded under the premise of starting with the oldest and youngest and then expanding it to cover more age groups every decade or so. Ultimately giving us single payer health care.

The Aca would work if republicans would have worked with democrats instead of against them every step of the way by blocking any and all extra funding that would have kept premiums low,
by Republican states choosing not to expand Medicaid which caused premiums to spiral out of control in those states,
by removing risk corridors because they took profit away from the big insurance companies to keep the smaller ones in the black (ultimately removing competition for the big companies and giving them a reason to raise premiums even more) , and by lying about it every chance they could.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: mikell


What a downright horror. This is not even insurance. This is blood sucking.


It's BEYOND blood-sucking. It's all-out zombie-noshing-on-living-people horror.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JinMI

I think when the law first passed, we calculated that I would have to find a full-time job making no less than $20K/year in order for us to break even and most of my pay would simply be to pay for health insurance.

Obviously those numbers have changed a bit by now.


Just think, $20k is pretty close to a minimum wage job. Since no one actually makes at or near minimum wage though (according to many conservatives on this website) you could have done it working at McDonalds, and you would have pay raises since then too.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 07:09 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Logarock

The AHCA is what Republicans proposed to replace the ACA.

Given that you cannot even get the acronym right, please provide sources to your claims if you want to be believed.



Yea whatever. All you need to know is may ass h**l is three times the size it was before Obama Care. I am living the thing. Don't have to give sources, I am the source as are millions of others.

Anecdotes are unconvincing.

Back your claims with some data.
edit on 19Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:14:32 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago7 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Buy a drug from 17 years ago, with a patent that has expired, and you'd be paying next to nothing.


Uh... Epipen? It's been around for decades (yes, plural) and the company behind it spiked the price... do you not remember the outrage about that?



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: toysforadults

The only way a free market will solve this is a very very heavy handed regulatory system.

If this is left to the corps you will see monopolies and collusion to set prices. Medical and phone services are very different. Medical service is a inflexible cost, one that a person absolutely needs to live. Phones are a flexible cost, and in almost all cases are not a life or death service.

The electrical/gas companies in most areas are a monopoly that is heavily regulated and works very well. In my opinion this is the way the market should work for pricing in medical.


Yep, they do it everywhere they can get away with... remember the High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation a few years back?

Big name Silicon Valley companies colluded to reduce competition for workers in order to reduce employee costs to the companies.

Many decades ago, companies trying to start a health insurance industry ran into courts who opposed for-profit in the medical industry. They lobbied politicians who put explicit exemptions in regulations to allow it, and here we are today.
edit on 19Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:21:59 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago7 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JinMI

Some how other countries have figured this out. And the solution seems to be omitting the for profits or limiting profits.

But we Americans must reinvent the wheel.


No, no need to reinvent the wheel. Just take the Feds out of it and leave insurance regulation to the states.

Before Obamacare I could get a personal policy that contained catastrophic coverage. I do not need maternity care, nor addiction or mental health coverage. My policy also allowed for a Health Saving Account to which I could contribute in order to help pay the deductible, should the need arise. I could pay for my non-traditional medical care out of that account as well, including supplements instead of prescription drugs. The last time I paid a yearly premium (2011) it was just over $4k/yr. When I got the premium notice for 2012 it had jumped to $6.5k. Four years later they wanted just over $10k/yr. despite the fact that I had never met a deductible. Back in 2012 I began a separate account for health costs and have put into that account the amount that the insurance company wanted me to pay them. Needless to say, that account has a hefty balance now because I pay directly for my care. The docs get their money when treatment is provided so they are happy. I'm still in possession of my money so I'm tickled to death. I even paid my fines to the IRS out of that account.

The Federal government seems to believe that people can all be put in little cubbyholes. To them there is no difference between me and my neighbor of a similar age. Nothing could be further from the truth. She is overweight and has been for many years. As a result she needs lots of meds and sees a series of docs every single month of her life. She does nothing to attempt to improve her health, like losing weight which would alleviate the pain in her feet and legs from carrying around an extra hundred pounds. She drinks like a fish and wonders why her diabetes isn't under control. But boy, oh boy is she happy that she now gets free insurance. At present she's all ticked off because our governor has proposed that those getting "free" insurance through the state Medicade system at least look for work or do community volunteer work. She's not even willing to sit at the front desk and check in patients at the free clinic whose services she utilized before she got "free" insurance because "It ain't fair!"

It began with Medicare and has escalated. This is exactly the mess my boss predicted in the early '70s.



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:25 PM
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Insurance is just legalized ponzi just as banks are legalized loan sharks.

Receiving interests from loan is just asking someone to grow money out of nothing (well almost nothing if you don't count the time to hold someone else money). Lease/buy land from government and then lease out is also another way to make money just as buying and selling properties (used to be more loopholes buying without using money).



posted on Jul, 27 2017 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: mikell


My parents had a good attorney who had them transfer all their tangible assets to me and my brother, 20 years ago. They both received excellent taxpayer-funded care as they neared age 90, and got sicker. Upon death, me and brother already owned everything. No probate.

Now, my wife and I have something similar, using a "trust" product.

Learning how the monopoly game rules are set, and playing by them, helps ease a lot of financial pain for yourself, and your children, as you navigate through life.



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