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Millions Paying 10k Plus inHealth Care Premiums and Remain Afraid

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posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Logarock

thefederalist.com...


Does Having Insurance Mean Better Health Care?

The Centers for Disease Control collects U.S. mortality statistics and publishes them in a database called WONDER. The database is indeed a statistical wonder, allowing researchers to slice and dice U.S. mortality data into segments by age, gender, location, year, cause of morbidity, and many additional criteria.

With WONDER, it is a short exercise to attempt to confirm Wilper’s predictions. Examining U.S. adult mortality in the decade prior to Obamacare’s insurance expansion (2004-2013), the all-cause mean death rate for ages 15 to 64 is 310.4 people per 100,000. The rate is fairly steady over the decade, with a low of 306.8, a high of 313.5, and a standard deviation of 2.2. If extending taxpayer-sponsored insurance to 15 million people since 2013 has resulted in 21,000 fewer annual deaths, then the mean death rate should decrease from 310.4 to approximately 300.

Returning to the WONDER database for 2014-15 numbers, one finds the mean death rate is … 320.4. Well, that is unexpected. Since Obamacare provisions extended insurance coverage, the death rate has substantially increased, by more than 20,000 deaths per year.


A correlation does not prove causation, of course, and since we believe health insurance reduces mortality, there must be a coincident event causing the spike in deaths since 2014. And there is an apparent scapegoat. An opioid crisis has gripped the United States since Obamacare insurance expansion was implemented.

Opioids have caused thousands of early deaths, enough to distort mortality statistics in adult Americans, and the crisis worsened noticeably in 2014-2015. Assuming the opioid crisis is independent of Obamacare insurance expansion (for analysis purposes only, since some work has suggested these two phenomena may be causally linked) may eliminate the excess deaths and show the expected reduced mortality from health care insurance.

Fortunately, WONDER allows researchers to separate causes of morbidity, so it is a simple matter to repeat the analysis, excluding drug-related and other external causes of death, and clear up the confusion about the increased U.S. mortality.

What happens when we calculate the death rate after excluding all external causes of morbidity (ICD-10 codes for deaths caused by drugs, alcohol, assault, suicide, and accidents—in short, anything that is not due to an internal illness)? For the decade 2004-2013, the death rate is 247.4 people per 100,000 population. It is more stable than the all-cause death rate, with a low of 244.7, a high of 249.9, and a standard deviation of 1.7.




An interesting read.

So I went and looked at this by all ages, rather than the 16-64 range:

2003-2013 (age group, deaths, population, rate per 100,000)
< 1 year 292,177 44,146,129 661.8
1-4 years 49,868 175,960,944 28.3
5-9 years 28,636 219,564,525 13.0
10-14 years 36,572 229,982,729 15.9
15-19 years 133,004 237,869,199 55.9
20-24 years 216,588 236,194,543 91.7
25-34 years 470,455 445,816,809 105.5
35-44 years 851,953 463,848,017 183.7
45-54 years 2,005,476 479,260,610 418.5
55-64 years 3,272,367 375,024,458 872.6
65-74 years 4,502,438 230,088,002 1,956.8
75-84 years 7,172,543 144,198,115 4,974.1
85+ years 8,142,826 57,332,698 14,202.8
Not Stated 2,305 Not Applicable Not Applicable
Total 27,177,208 3,339,286,778 813.9

2014-2015 (age group, deaths, population, rate per 100,000)
< 1 year 46,670 7,926,388 588.8
1-4 years 7,795 31,857,776 24.5
5-9 years 4,759 41,006,742 11.6
10-14 years 5,902 41,293,836 14.3
15-19 years 19,772 42,176,550 46.9
20-24 years 39,513 45,651,487 86.6
25-34 years 98,694 87,653,706 112.6
35-44 years 144,084 81,102,916 177.7
45-54 years 350,411 86,647,012 404.4
55-64 years 706,593 80,955,400 872.8
65-74 years 966,557 53,948,807 1,791.6
75-84 years 1,262,070 27,605,864 4,571.7
85+ years 1,685,927 12,449,392 13,542.2
Not Stated 301 Not Applicable Not Applicable
Total 5,339,048 640,275,876 833.9

There is only ONE age group where 2014-2015 exceeds 2003-2013 (save for 55-64 where the rate differs by 0.2) :
25-34 years 470,455 445,816,809 105.5
vs
25-34 years 98,694 87,653,706 112.6

Every other age group is lower
edit on 19Wed, 26 Jul 2017 19:27:17 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago7 by Greven because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:31 PM
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Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years, 16 Sep. 2009


Today, the average cost of a family health insurance offered by an employer is $13,375.


So, if you're telling me the average annual premium cost is now $10k/year then I'd tell you that Obamacare lowered the cost of premiums. That's not true though. It slowed the growth rate but it didn't lower premiums.

Health Insurance: Premiums and Increases, 2017


Annual premiums reached $18,142 in 2016 for an average family, up 3 percent from 2015, with workers on average paying $5,277 towards the cost of their coverage.


I mean, come on, people were paying $10k/year well before the ACA or even Obama came to office, the difference was that, back then, the insurance companies could drop you if they felt like it. Got sick? Dropped. Car accident? Dropped. Or they could charge you double if you did decide to get insurance. Got sick 10 years ago? Double the premium. Had a baby 10 years ago? Double the premium.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: links234

With government plans, a patient may not get dropped from coverage, but that does not mean everything will be covered.

I submit medical exception requests through Medicaid and Medicare on a daily basis, if I had to put a number on it about 60% get approved. The others we have to scramble to find a cheaper drug that may be less effective.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:39 PM
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originally posted by: links234


I mean, come on, people were paying $10k/year well before the ACA or even Obama came to office, the difference was that, back then, the insurance companies could drop you if they felt like it. Got sick? Dropped. Car accident? Dropped. Or they could charge you double if you did decide to get insurance. Got sick 10 years ago? Double the premium. Had a baby 10 years ago? Double the premium.


Sorry, but 97% of what you said is incorrect. You subscribe to the Tom Perez newsletter? It spouts the same untruths.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Zerodoublehero




It's not working for everyone that is for sure.


Have quick gander at Anthem Inc (BCBS) stocks over the past 5 years.




Anthem stock price in August 2012 $59 today $184----must be some gold in them sick people.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Zerodoublehero




It's not working for everyone that is for sure.


Have quick gander at Anthem Inc (BCBS) stocks over the past 5 years.




Anthem stock price in August 2012 $59 today $184----must be some gold in them sick people.


Looks like I missed the boat on that stock.

*calls broker and fires him*



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Do you pine for the days of preexisting conditions?

I knew several people in college could not get insurance because of fairly common health conditions pre-ACA regulations. There were probably a lot more that I didn't know about because I hadn't really asked... it just came up with these folks.

I know one who had over $700/mo premiums back in 2010 and that only covered catastrophic stuff. That's around $10k/yr in 2017 dollars.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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Obamacare took away affordable insurance for those with jobs and gave free insurance to those without.

It's welfare.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: Greven

Yeah, and some people pay almost 1000 or more a month under the ACA and have a 5000 or more dollar deductible......yeah, that is great.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist
a reply to: Greven

Yeah, and some people pay almost 1000 or more a month under the ACA and have a 5000 or more dollar deductible......yeah, that is great.


I'm one of those people.
And i'm pissed off.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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Stocks triple but quality of coverage declines. This is the argument that should be happening.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist
a reply to: Greven

Yeah, and some people pay almost 1000 or more a month under the ACA and have a 5000 or more dollar deductible......yeah, that is great.


I'm one of those people.
And i'm pissed off.


Don't blame you there. For myself I said F the ACA, and went without.....basically got a catastrophic plan for long hospital stays or surgery only. All else is out of pocket.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

For profit medical care (insurance) can not deliver affordable, quality care. They must increase profits (raise premiums) to keep the share holders smiling.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Zerodoublehero




It's not working for everyone that is for sure.


Have quick gander at Anthem Inc (BCBS) stocks over the past 5 years.




Anthem stock price in August 2012 $59 today $184----must be some gold in them sick people.


There's a Golden Egg laying goose with CENTENE Insurance Company. It is one of the big 3 that handle all the Obamacare Medicaid administration across the country. 2012 - $18.00 @ share. Today - $84.00 @ share.

Centene Who? www.centene.com...

The liberal MSM loves pointing out when Centene, United HealthCare, and Anthem make a profit on ObamaCare. That profit is from milking the Federal Government (you and me) for acting as the middle-man between the govt and medical providers. Huge HUGE bonuses and parties for their executives.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JinMI

For profit medical care (insurance) can not deliver affordable, quality care. They must increase profits (raise premiums) to keep the share holders smiling.


False. They could if they were forced to by will of a proper free market. Mandating Americans to buy insurance allows them to increase prices, in this case triple, because of government subsidies combined with a mandate.

Getting government out of for profit insurance is step one. Fixing medicare and medicade should be their goal.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: carewemust

Do you pine for the days of preexisting conditions?

I knew several people in college could not get insurance because of fairly common health conditions pre-ACA regulations. There were probably a lot more that I didn't know about because I hadn't really asked... it just came up with these folks.

I know one who had over $700/mo premiums back in 2010 and that only covered catastrophic stuff. That's around $10k/yr in 2017 dollars.


To keep from duplicating my statements over and over, ad nauseum... I'll simply paste what I posted one page back in this thread. Three-pronged solution... (If done quickly, can be enacted before the big 1.1.2018 ObamaCare hellfire hits)

1.) Total Free-Market Private Insurance for Anyone who can qualify for, and afford it.
2.) Medicare for anyone who does not want Free-Market Private Insurance, and can afford the $300-$600 monthly cost.
3.) Medicaid for those who cannot afford Medicare.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

I can't see this being solved in washington by the repubs (or dems).

It will be solved when the American public flip the system the bird and not pay the insurance premiums anymore. It would collapse the system in 2 months.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

Dis agree, this was going to happen regardless if the ACA was in place or not.

Mandate or not, the system is going to collapse due to greed and monopolistic orgs like the AMA.



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:05 PM
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That's why I choose not to be covered.

The insurance now cost more than the treatment itself, please explain how that is logical?



posted on Jul, 26 2017 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

Anecdotal....

BUT, we paid $19,000 in health insurance premiums for our family of four, in 2016. AND, our only serious debt is my student loans and medical bills.

Medical bills.

We required far less than $19,000, as a family, for health care, last year. Every year is really the same though. We pay so much more in premiums than we spend.

Every time a family member has a medical or dental need...we fret about the OOP cost.

Thank you, OP, for considering that. I sometimes feel so bitter seeing people who take their kids to the ER for a low grade fever and a runny nose because they don't worry about the OOP cost...it's all free for them. Meanwhile, we try to be very thoughtful about where we go for medical care and when.

It's just so frustrating.




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