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Transgender Person Writes Thoughts on Trump's Military Ban

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posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:24 AM
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originally posted by: _R4t_

originally posted by: SudoNim

originally posted by: _R4t_
a reply to: Skywatcher2011


If you want to still be in the army after that then fine... Its because you wanted a military career, if your bitching about it then your simply looking for someone to pay your medical bills and you don't belong in there in first place...


But its not fine... you are still banned from being in the military.

So you also disagree with this decision, glad you finally accepted that.



What are you talking about, I said I agree with the decision because the basis of the ban has roots in economy... Don't put words into my mouth because YOU disagree with it... I'm saying the basis upon which its banned is economical at the root... Trump didn't say "Your not getting in the army cuz of mental instability, soldiers are uneasy with it, we don't want that image with the other armies in the world or this or that...

This is what he said...

"Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail,"

And I agree with this, the costs plus potential danger of having somebody highly volatile pumped with hormones who is in a weak state of mind trying to accept their new life is dangerous to themselves and others... 100% sound of mind soldiers go to war and come back broken, do you REALLY want to send somebody in an emotional turmoil there and expect him to not completely break, kill himself or others? Put the social justice warrior costume aside and try to understand logic for once because common sense supersede political correctness when the live of sons, fathers and husbands are at risk...

HOWEVER...

Trans are expecting the military to pay for their medical expenses, I said "Fine you want to be in the army sign off all possible pre/post operation medical bill coverage related directly or indirectly to your switch over be on special duties for 48months after the completion of your treatments and be cleared for combat by a specialist and then we'll talk again..."

Take the time to read and understand before being butt hurt and commenting on something you haven't fully comprehended... And don't push your personal agenda on me, simply because you want it to be the other way around to voluntary misinterpret my words and twist them around trying to prove your point that's just weak...

And finally, you have the "psyop" part... Other countries aren't as "open" than america... Other world superpowers like Russia and China will frown and laugh upon this and you loose the fear factor... They will promote it to their soldiers saying "We're going to war against a bunch of transexual... its a sure win..."


Because you want to be more like Russia and China when it comes to human rights? Wow. The majority of western civilised world allows Transgender individuals to serve. This move is taking America closer to Russia, something you seem happy about.



I said "Fine you want to be in the army sign off all possible pre/post operation medical bill coverage related directly or indirectly to your switch over be on special duties for 48months after the completion of your treatments and be cleared for combat by a specialist and then we'll talk again..."


Oh thats all well and good, but thats not what Trump said. So you do disagree with him, can you understand now or should i break it down further for you?


How your enemy see you is a very big factor in how you win a war, take the Maori warrior dance as example, dress them all in pink with feathers and all and tell me if it look as terrifying? You won't intimidate Russia or China with an army of Trans if anything your going to make their soldiers more confident and that will play against you big times, intimidation has its place in war due to the psychological effects...


What the hell are you talking about, what kind of deep personal issues do you have that makes you think suddenly the army will start wearing pink feathers. That is clear symptoms of HOMOPHOBIA, you need to take a long look at yourself and where your comments are coming from, they aren't based on fact or reason but fear and insecurity.




posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:29 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

Sir, your trolling and baiting serves no purpose in my thread. Please stay on topic with the discussion at hand. If you have nothing further of value to add I would appreciate you find another thread to troll.



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: Skywatcher2011

You're the one who asked knowledgehunter if he was a transgender person.



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:32 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

That's not mentioning the fact that many transgenders who decide to go through such operations have changed their minds and then they have even more psychological problems which the military would have to pay for.



Why not let the over weight person join so they can get liposuction and a stomach band to get them under weight...

GIVE ME A BREAK!


I assume because they would fail the physical requirements to join.
The same requirements that transgender individuals were required to pass.
An overweight transgender individual would also fail.

What you clearly can't seem to grasp is that there are currently a set of Physical and Mental requirements to join the Military that all individuals must pass...

What we are discussing here is that a certain group of individuals are now being disqualified regardless of whether they meet these requirements. Those individuals are being discriminated against because of how they align themselves sexually.

You seemed to have confused this with complaining about one of the Physical requirements imposed.

These are two different things. You could let overweight people join but still transgender overweight individuals would be banned. Why is that?



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Bully for him. He does not speak for all trans people. He does not speak for MOST trans people.

I have over 70 years of firsthand life experience, eight years of living as a woman, 20 years of researching the topic, and 12 years of helping others who, like me, found that transitioning and reassignment surgery failed to be proper treatment and want to restore their lives to their birth gender


Apparently their are others and he has spent over a decade helping them....But I'm sure it's just this guy....



Aparently about 20 percent regret their decision. And 50 percent have active thoughts of suicide. So obviously something is wrong if half the people who get surgery want to kill themselves. I figure maybe helping them feel comfortable about who they are would work better. So what if a guy has many thoughts that would be considered female. Or a woman that thinks like a guy they used to just call them Tom boys.

The key is learning to be happy with yourself your appearance is totally irrelevant. My daughter is a great example grew up on a house with 3 other boys. She did everything they did in some cases better such as baseball. She used to say she hated being a girl. Then she turned 16 and the combat boots and baggy pants disappeared and suddenly she wanted to wear skirts and dresses. We supported her in being a tom boy taling her to games etc. And now werr just as happy ro take her clothes shopping doesnt change a thing. But at least she knows no matter whay mom and dad will support any decision ahe makes.People often have to find themselves and just need people around them to accept whatever they choose to be.

This trying to gain acceptance I think can lead to bad decisions you end up regretting and leads to depression.


edit on 7/28/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: SudoNim

You lie. Overweight transgender people are allowed in the military.


edit on 7/28/2017 by Deaf Alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:40 AM
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Taken from a different thread.


originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog




Holy crap what a distraction. I see why you guys are all upset. I mean just look at how distracting he is... so distracting.



Yeah, I totally don't want him defending me.

*eyeroll*


This is what you are afraid of, someone who doesn't fit your pink wearing stereotype.

Trump really does bring out the worst in people, I'm appalled at the behaviour of members in this thread and others who want to cast a brush over all individuals of a group and claim they are not fit to serve.

What you are really scared of is that these people serve your country much better than you could and it makes you feel small inside(and other places).



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:41 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Bully for him. He does not speak for all trans people. He does not speak for MOST trans people.

I have over 70 years of firsthand life experience, eight years of living as a woman, 20 years of researching the topic, and 12 years of helping others who, like me, found that transitioning and reassignment surgery failed to be proper treatment and want to restore their lives to their birth gender


Apparently their are others and he has spent over a decade helping them....But I'm sure it's just this guy....



Aparently about 20 percent regret their decision. And 50 percent have active thoughts of suicide. So obviously something is wrong if half the people who get surgery want to kill themselves. I figure maybe helping them feel comfortable about who they are would work better. So what if a guy has many thoughts that would be considered female. Or a woman that thinks like a guy they used to just call them Tom boys.

The key is learning to be happy with yourself your appearance is totally irrelevant.

Will you ask those transgender people already serving if they are happy to serve in the military.



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:50 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

I would but in truth they are hard to find. Went through 20 years without meeting one. According to the DOD there was 250 requests to have their gender changed on paperwork. There is a little over 2 million active and in the reserves. Meaning most people will never meet any one transfer in the military



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

How do you know you never met one?



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: SudoNim



Because you want to be more like Russia and China when it comes to human rights? Wow. The majority of western civilised world allows Transgender individuals to serve. This move is taking America closer to Russia, something you seem happy about.


Can you read? Where did I say we should be more like Russia and China? How did you even turn this into human rights argument in first place? You obviously are out of arguments and your borrowing here and there to try to fight back but your just swinging in the air with nothing of value to bring up...

Majority?

www.cbc.ca...

Those countries are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Israel, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Out of 196 countries that's a majority? So now 18 is a majority over 196? You obviously do not even take a second to research and quote made up statistics and facts...


ma·jor·i·ty
məˈjôrədē,məˈjärədē/Submit
noun
1.
the greater number.
"in the majority of cases all will go smoothly"
synonyms: larger part/number, greater part/number, best/better part, most, more than half; More
2.


Come on... your fetching... really far fetching actually...

I'm saying that military is a game of fear, its always been and it always will. I'm saying just because America is more open on these topics doesn't mean other counties are. And in the eye of other countries your only as good as your military, if you don't know what psyop is google and learn. In alot of other countries the US military is seen as hardcore and lethal soldiers and they see homosexuality, trans and all that as a weakness... Ever wondered why you give the "war speech" before any football game when the morals are down? Ever wondered why before deployment they get the hyped speech about we're going to do the right thing, we're going to go kick ass? Its because you need to pump up your soldiers... Now put yourself in the mentality of another country getting ready for war with US, you have two choices...

A> The enemy soldiers see you as an army of though as a nail men, true grits with heart to keep on fighting...

or

B> Same as A but with X% of woman and X% of gays and X% of Trans.

These soldiers see all the above as "weakness" so they see you as a weakened army...

Fear factor is a huge psychological factor in war, its what makes the difference between your soldiers running forward or running back home...

Your fetching and spinning words again to fit your agenda, its pitiful....




Oh thats all well and good, but thats not what Trump said. So you do disagree with him, can you understand now or should i break it down further for you?


This is what Trump said, exactly in accordance to that I said my concern is medical costs and disruption...

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
....victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you
10:08 AM - Jul 26, 2017
42,794 42,794 Retweets 137,987 137,987 likes

Go read before commenting on something you obviously didn't read... Educate yourself before replying our of cheer emotional stress...



What the hell are you talking about, what kind of deep personal issues do you have that makes you think suddenly the army will start wearing pink feathers. That is clear symptoms of HOMOPHOBIA, you need to take a long look at yourself and where your comments are coming from, they aren't based on fact or reason but fear and insecurity.


Again, taking words out of context, I'm unsure if its because your emotionally unstable right now and cannot sit in place long enough to try to understand whats being said, perhaps your a trans that was considering going to the army to afford the change you can't already afford maybe, your obviously not reading or in a state of mind to comprehend perhaps you need sleep or a valium or something... Your projecting all of that self confusion on others, you might read about it too its a psychological method of self-defence called "Projection"...

Don't try to play the "your a racist or an homophobe" card with me snowflake, I couldn't care less about what people do with their lives or their body my concern is that they don't do it at others expenses... Be whatever you want to be as long as YOU pay your own bills period...

In any case I will not respond to you no more, seeing that your not taking the time to read, understand, assimilate the information and then make a sound of judgement reply without twisting words and injecting out of context content or making things up, at this point any more reply to you would be derailing the thread for no valid reasons...
edit on 28-7-2017 by _R4t_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: SudoNim

Quesion what do you think happens if they can't get testosterone injections in combat situation?? Being in the reserves is one thing but having to spend a year in the desert is another. This person would suffer physically without injections ie muscle turns to fat. And even worse anxiety and depression and let's not forget heart disease.

I had a hard time getting chap stick in Afghanistan wouldnt want to think about trying to get hormone injections.



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SudoNim

Quesion what do you think happens if they can't get testosterone injections in combat situation?? Being in the reserves is one thing but having to spend a year in the desert is another. This person would suffer physically without injections ie muscle turns to fat. And even worse anxiety and depression and let's not forget heart disease.

I had a hard time getting chap stick in Afghanistan wouldnt want to think about trying to get hormone injections.


Very good point, what can be the combat effect of a soldier in mid trans stuck behind the enemy lines with his unit and runs out of HRT meds? According to a doctor from what I just googled.


Expert: Dr. David replied 4 years ago.
Hello, this is Dr. David. I have read your question and am ready to help.

most likely no danger.

you might notice mood swings or skin issues, acne, weight changes if you stop estrogen therapy cold turkey.

but it shouldn't be dangerous

why are you stopping hormone therapy suddenly?


There is definitely a mentally affecting factor, now do you want to be in a squad with a soldier with mental stress affecting his judgement? For the same exact reasons non-trans soldiers with PTSD are pulled out of the field as their mood swings can affect their judgements and jeopardise the lives of their fellow soldiers.

Should Trans be given preferential or different treatment if they are having the same issues as soldiers with PTSD?

Very good point, I never thought of "running out of hormones" in the field...
edit on 28-7-2017 by _R4t_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: _R4t_

If you are diagnosed as a diabetic in the military you will be discharged. Bottom line they can't make sure you can receive insulin injections. Even though diabetes when treated is harmless and doesn't effect their ability to do their job. But the military feels it's better to discharge them then worry about trying to make sure they can get insulin .

I see this as the major problem with hormone therapy as well. They can't make sure the soldier gets their injections.
edit on 7/28/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:43 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: _R4t_

If you are diagnosed as a diabetic in the military you will be discharged. Bottom line they can't make sure you can receive insulin injections. Even though diabetes when treated is harmless and doesn't effect their ability to do their job. But the military feels it's better to discharge them then worry about trying to make sure they can get insulin .

I see this as the major problem with hormone therapy as well. They can't make sure the soldier gets their injections.


Which is completely understandable and logical, you need soldiers who's health is not dependent of medication or that lack of medication may affect their performance or endanger others in combat situation. If you pass out it takes 2 soldiers to pull you back behind the lines to get medics so that's 3 soldiers off the field...

Very very interesting point, in which case Trans will never be able to stop HRT without starting to revert as their body's genetic makeup does what it was designed to do and take over again bringing on onsets of hot flashes, blood pressure problem and mood swings I'm reading...



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: SudoNim
a reply to: dragonridr

How do you know you never met one?





Hi gorgeous



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:48 AM
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originally posted by: _R4t_

Can you read? Where did I say we should be more like Russia and China? How did you even turn this into human rights argument in first place? You obviously are out of arguments and your borrowing here and there to try to fight back but your just swinging in the air with nothing of value to bring up...


Right here champ.


Other world superpowers like Russia and China will frown and laugh upon this



Majority?

www.cbc.ca...

Those countries are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Israel, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Out of 196 countries that's a majority? So now 18 is a majority over 196? You obviously do not even take a second to research and quote made up statistics and facts...


You think there are 196 countries in the western civilised world? Name them please. Otherwise... another fail.



I'm saying that military is a game of fear, its always been and it always will. I'm saying just because America is more open on these topics doesn't mean other counties are. And in the eye of other countries your only as good as your military, if you don't know what psyop is google and learn. In alot of other countries the US military is seen as hardcore and lethal soldiers and they see homosexuality, trans and all that as a weakness... Ever wondered why you give the "war speech" before any football game when the morals are down? Ever wondered why before deployment they get the hyped speech about we're going to do the right thing, we're going to go kick ass? Its because you need to pump up your soldiers... Now put yourself in the mentality of another country getting ready for war with US, you have two choices...


Why do you assume being transgender is a weakness? Do YOU think that "homosexuality, trans and all that"?


Go read before commenting on something you obviously didn't read... Educate yourself before replying our of cheer emotional stress...


You ignored my question again, why can't you answer it? What are you afraid of?

You said its fine for transgender individuals to serve in the military under certain stipulations.
Donald Trump says that they cannot under any stipulations.

You and Donald Trump do not agree.... I REALLY can't make it simpler than that, if you need it dumbing down even further go back to school first.



Again, taking words out of context, I'm unsure if its because your emotionally unstable right now and cannot sit in place long enough to try to understand whats being said, perhaps your a trans that was considering going to the army to afford the change you can't already afford maybe, your obviously not reading or in a state of mind to comprehend perhaps you need sleep or a valium or something... Your projecting all of that self confusion on others, you might read about it too its a psychological method of self-defence called "Projection"...


I'm not a transgender individual, but nice to see you reached this point in the argument where you make these accusations to try and find a point in the gibberish you post. Also I happen to live in one of the numerous educated countries that does allow Transgender to serve.


Don't try to play the "your a racist or an homophobe" card with me snowflake, I couldn't care less about what people do with their lives or their body my concern is that they don't do it at others expenses... Be whatever you want to be as long as YOU pay your own bills period...


Oooh the "snowflake" word came out and just a paragraph after using the term "projection" ... the irony.

Pay your own bills... like say viagra bills, are you happy to pay for the military supply of viagra? Is it because they are for the tough hard mens only that you seem to love.


In any case I will not respond to you no more, seeing that your not taking the time to read, understand, assimilate the information and then make a sound of judgement reply without twisting words and injecting out of context content or making things up, at this point any more reply to you would be derailing the thread for no valid reasons...


Ah you've seen reason that you can't win this, give up and run and hide.

Just to summarise...

Your ability to read and understand other peoples posts has been exposed (196 western countries?).

Your personal fears and insecurities regarding being inferior to gays, transgenders or women is clear to see.

You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to the military, war or the term transgender.

You clearly think...


originally posted by: _R4t_homosexuality, trans and all that as a weakness


... which is YOUR problem. You have insecurities about it... I get it, you can't fathom how a transgender individual can serve your country.
edit on 28-7-2017 by SudoNim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:51 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SudoNim

Quesion what do you think happens if they can't get testosterone injections in combat situation?? Being in the reserves is one thing but having to spend a year in the desert is another. This person would suffer physically without injections ie muscle turns to fat. And even worse anxiety and depression and let's not forget heart disease.

I had a hard time getting chap stick in Afghanistan wouldnt want to think about trying to get hormone injections.


Do all military personnel need to spend a year in the desert?

Is that a requirement for every military post... if you can't spend a year in the desert you cannot perform ANY military role?



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 03:53 AM
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originally posted by: _R4t_

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: _R4t_

If you are diagnosed as a diabetic in the military you will be discharged. Bottom line they can't make sure you can receive insulin injections. Even though diabetes when treated is harmless and doesn't effect their ability to do their job. But the military feels it's better to discharge them then worry about trying to make sure they can get insulin .

I see this as the major problem with hormone therapy as well. They can't make sure the soldier gets their injections.


Which is completely understandable and logical, you need soldiers who's health is not dependent of medication or that lack of medication may affect their performance or endanger others in combat situation. If you pass out it takes 2 soldiers to pull you back behind the lines to get medics so that's 3 soldiers off the field...

Very very interesting point, in which case Trans will never be able to stop HRT without starting to revert as their body's genetic makeup does what it was designed to do and take over again bringing on onsets of hot flashes, blood pressure problem and mood swings I'm reading...


Is every scenario you think of straight from Saving Private Ryan?

You do realise there are more than Front Line jobs in the military, jesus christ.

This is like talking to children.



posted on Jul, 28 2017 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: SudoNim

You have never been in the militany have you?? If you are not in a front line position your job is made to support them. Even people that handle laundry will get deployed to FOB. These basses are temporary and often in hostile territory. Every job in the military either fights or their job supports those that do.

There are no desk jobs in the military that keeps people out of combat every most in every unit will train in the field to support troops. I personally was great full those people were there it was nice being able to crash in a FOB without having to pull guard duty since they handle security as well. Meaning some desk jockey is out there hiking the fence.

Everyone else in the military goes through basic training. They are required to pass on thr shooting range.This is combat training because every soldier can be called on combat. It amazes me how people who are clueless with military operations want to pipe in and call others stupid.
edit on 7/28/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)




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