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Countdown to all-out civil war in Venezuela

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posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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But this is exactly what happens in a socialist economy where the government controls all industry and has confiscated most, if not all privately own factories, farms etc...




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

Have anything citing actual numbers of private vs nationalized businesses?

Maduro says 98.5% are private, you say all or most are nationalized. I don't believe either of you.


edit on 1-8-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: TheBandit795
a reply to: daskakik

Here are the (socialist) explanations of the (socialist) economy minister about the current isues faced by Venezuela and how they relate to (not-so-socialist) sources :




posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:49 AM
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I've just heard that there is a travel ban on all Venezuelan nationals within Venezuela. And Venezuelans abroad will not be allowed to leave again once they come back, whether to live or for vacation. Only foreigners are allowed to leave.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:58 AM
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US Regime Change in Venezuela: The Truth Is Easy if You Follow the Money Trail.


US State Department documents reveal that the department itself along with US-funded fronts posing as nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) have been providing Venezuela’s opposition with support.

This includes a report titled, “Status of Capriles and Sumate Cases,” referring to the above mentioned Henrique Capriles Radonski and Sumate, a US National Endowment for Democracy (NED) funded front posing as an election monitor.

Currently, NED’s own website features an extensive list of activities it is engaged in within Venezuela’s borders. It includes leveraging human rights for political gain, electoral manipulation, building opposition fronts, and expanding pro-opposition media. While each activity is labelled with benign titles, it is clear that none of these activities are done impartially, and as State Department documents reveal, these activities are done specifically for the benefit of the US-backed opposition.

...

While the Western media attempts to frame Venezuela’s crisis as a result of “socialism” and “dictatorship,” it is clear by reading the West’s own policy papers that it is owed instead to a systematic assault on Venezuela’s sociopolitical stability and economic viability, spanning decades.

Venezuela is not the first nation in South America that the United States has sought to overturn by undermining its economy.

...

The crisis in Venezuela is not one of socialism versus capitalism or dictatorship versus democracy – it is one of hegemony versus national sovereignty, of centralized unipolar power versus an increasingly multipolar world.

A sovereign and independent Venezuela allowed to pursue its own destiny is one in which its own people will naturally seek to decentralize and distribute power. While the current government may not provide the ideal conditions to accomplish this, conditions under a US client regime – as US-wrecked Libya, Afghanistan, or Iraq prove – would be significantly less ideal.

For geopolitical analysts, moving away from ideological talking points and examining the actual government and opposition, their interests, associations, and funding, as well as their base motives reveals a much simpler and consistent narrative, one that any analyst could discern, and a discernment that will stand the test of scrutiny and time. Those entrenched in left/right ideology risk being betrayed by the government’s floundering desperation and the true nature of an opposition that most certainly is not “capitalist” or “pro-democracy.”



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

I didn't ask for a few examples, I asked for a total number of each to back up your claim of the gov controlling all or most industry.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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Venezuela is State-Run-Socialism, the "Opposition Fighters" are comprised of CIA agents installing a coup and Fascists trying to install a Fascist regime while American Media portrays them as "Freedom Fighters"

theconjurehouse.com...

Maduro is just as bad as the opposition, which is just as bad as any other option, what needs to happen is the State and its Governments need to be abolished and destroyed



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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a reply to: daskakik

There are - as usual - obvious double-standards in place in the US foreign policy :

First, North Korea :

Tillerson : US 'not seeking' regime change in Pyongyang , "We're not your enemy"

Then Venezuela :

Tillerson Threatens Regime Change in Venezuela

What is the difference between the two ? Well, Venezuella has oil and NK is testing ICBMs. Not the same of priorities ...
And what is Tillerson focused on ?

Rex Tillerson's long, troubled history in Venezuela


ExxonMobil’s history in Venezuela starts in 1921, when its predecessor, Standard Oil, set up shop there. What’s happened since, particularly during the governments of the so-called “Socialism of the 21st Century” under the successive administrations of Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro, does not necessarily augur well for bilateral US-Venezuela relations under Tillerson.

Venezuela’s ties to ExxonMobil were severed in 1976, when Venezuelan President Carlos Andres Pérez sought to nationalize the oil industry. They were reestablished in the 1990s when Pérez, in his second term, launched the so-called “Apertura Petrolera” (“oil opening”), seeking to attract foreign investment and develop the Orinoco oil belt.

But when Chávez decided to re-nationalize the oil business in 2007, Venezuela’s state oil company, PDVSA, acquired a majority stake in domestic oil ventures. ExxonMobil, by now under Tillerson’s leadership, rejected the government’s offer to pay book value for its assets, countering with a request for arbitration by the World Bank’s investment disputes settlement centre. ExxonMobil aimed to receive market value for its investments, assessed at $15 billion.

In 2014 Venezuela was ordered to compensate ExxonMobil $1.6 billion.

Another problem arose in 2015, this time under Maduro, when ExxonMobil launched oil operations off the coast of neighboring Guyana. That area lies very close to Venezuela’s Delta Amacuro state, in the Essequibo territory over which Venezuela has asserted ownership for more than a century.

In 2000 and 2002 the Venezuelan government brought claims to the World Petroleum Congress about Guyana’s proffered concessions in the Essequibo. International companies were initially compelled to cease drilling, but in 2012 operations resumed. Today both countries are seeking a peaceful agreement to this old border dispute with the UN Secretary General.

Meanwhile, Esso Exploration and Production Guyana Ltd, an ExxonMobil subsidiary, has declared that it will continue developing the region, which is part of a $200 million, 10-year contract between Esso and the Guyanese government.

Maduro has accused ExxonMobil of trying to destabilize the region by siding with Guyana, while ExxonMobil has complained about the Venezuelan government trying to turn countries against the company.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: daskakik

The total number is at least 1400 different companies expropriated by the Venezuelan government since 1998. Coindustria (the Venezuelan Confederation of Industries) is the source for that info. I haven't been able to get the direct source on their site as yet. (www.conindustria.org...)

It's not all, you're right about that. But it's a huge amount. In fact even one expropriation is already too much. There is no valid reason for a government to disrespect private property to the degree of stepping into a company and confiscating all of their assets and production if that company hasn't committed any crime, and without due process.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

Is it really the role of an industrial federation to take a political stance ... ?


La Confederación Venezolana de Industriales (Conindustria) quiere hacer público, una vez más, su respaldo a sus trabajadores que se han unido al paro cívico general convocado para los días de hoy miércoles 26 y jueves 27, por considerar que es un derecho ciudadano y constitucional que representa un mecanismo válido de protesta ante la decisión ilegítima del Ejecutivo Nacional de convocar una Asamblea Nacional Constituyente que, no sólo no es la solución para la grave crisis socioeconómica y política que vive el país, sino que más bien contribuirá a agravarla.

The Venezuelan Confederation of Industrialists (Conindustria) wants to make public, once again, its support for its workers who have joined the general civic strike called for today, Wednesday 26 and Thursday 27, considering it a citizen and constitutional right Which represents a valid mechanism of protest against the illegitimate decision of the National Executive to convene a National Constituent Assembly that not only is not the solution to the serious socioeconomic and political crisis that the country lives, but rather will contribute to aggravate it. - GOOGLE AUTOMATIC TRANSLATION

SOURCE


I must conceed that the strike method is probably more efficient that the non-sensical "Let's show our love for Democracy by boycotting elections". Conindustria definitly took a partisan side on this matter. And it is understandable, the Venezuelian society being devided mainly between urban and rural areas, the industrial confederation is more likely to support industries located around major cities.
Now, gerrymandering is at work in the US as well, and the president might be elected by a minorty of voters too ...



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

I never mentioned the validity of expropriation.

I was asking for the number of nationalized and private businesses because the claim was that the economic situation in Venezuela is because the government took over all or most industry.

If they in fact did not take over all or most industry then why are you blaming the situation on that?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: daskakik

Better read at least some of the articles I posted, because it's explained right there. The Venezuelan governments takeover (expropriation, aka confiscation or theft) of these 1400 companies mentioned caused a severe reduction in production of goods and services in Venezuela, causing a major downturn in their economy. They were not able to operate these businesses at the level they were run in when they were in private hands.

It's compared to if the U.S. government would take over Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Home Depot, Walmart, Verizon etc... All of the Dow Jones and more all down to Mom and Pop stores across the countries. Thousands and thousands of companies.

Picture this scenario: The U.S. federal government stepping into the headquarters of these corporations and telling them the government is taking over everything, all production and all profits as of that moment. For no reason other than their desire to confiscate "for the people". That's robbery. That's theft. That is what happened in Venezuela since 1998 when Chavez came into power. Theft on a grand scale. No respect for property rights. Incidentally that's how socialism works. If you don't think that that would be detrimental for the economy of a country than I don't know how else to explain it to you.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

A quick google search of "Venezuelan gdp" brought up a graph of the GDP showing a sharp increase since 2003.

Since those expropriations had already taken place before the end of 2010, one has to ask what is really going on?

You claim and the articles you linked doesn't seem to answer that.

ETA: Venezuela's GDP at the turn of the century was a little over 100B and it was a little over 500B in 2014.


edit on 3-8-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

That's mostly because of the high oil prices. Don't forget that they have one of the biggest oil reserves in the world. Since the oil prices dropped, the economy dropped accordingly because the oil sector is one of the few remaining economic pillars there in Venezuela. We in Aruba used to have a lot of Venezuelan imports, especially food products, but those have steadily declined over the years.

tradingeconomics.com...

Also their inflation rate has shot up to over 800% recently. Every month the last few years they had double figures of inflation.

tradingeconomics.com...

And like I said before. In the last two or three years there were thousands of Venezuelans here, hogging ATM's trying to use their credit cards to get U.S. dollars , robbing people, following women and children around just for some cash. Purchasing groceries with those same credit cards. Purchasing large amounts of beer and other alcohol with their credit cards, maxing them out in order to sell them to Chinese minimarkets at a 20% loss on average. Just so they can get U.S. currency to go back to Venezuela with. All of this happened until the Aruban businesses and banks started blocking all credit cards from Venezuela. This is what I've seen with my own eyes, not something I've read about on some online website or on tv. If the economy was going so great, none of this would happen.

Also they have capital controls in effect there. That's when you know it's not going good with the economy of a country. Arubans who have gone to Venezuela recently have had their money confiscated for no reason by customs officials there. An airline here that flew regularly to Venezuela, in fact half of it's flights were to and from Venezuelan cities, has gone bankrupt because the Venezuelan governments refused to allow the profit of that airline to leave Venezuelan banks.

edit on 3-8-2017 by TheBandit795 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

No doubt but shifting oil prices have nothing to do with the economic model of the country and inflation rocks even capitalist countries like Argentina.

I'm just saying that going to the stock "it's because of socialism" might be missing the mark.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

It has a lot to do with the economic model of the country. That was keeping their economy with their shrinking private sector alive.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: TheBandit795

Well, if the majority of industry is private, and they are still sinking I don't think you can blame the 1400 expropriations. At least not completely.

You already accepted that the gov doesn't control all industry, probably not even half.

In either case 5x the GDP, for whatever reason, and things are worst just doesn't add up.



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