12-year-old raped by relative can have abortion without parents’ consent, Alabama court rules

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: dawnstar

All 12 year olds should require parental guidance where abortion is concerned.

Now there is a sentence i never thought i would be writing.

But when the mother is part of the problem social work will need to step in an help the poor child come to the correct decision for herself. My opinion being 12 year olds, especially emotionally scared 12 year olds are hardly capable of taking care of a baby let alone give it any kind of life so abortion might be the best option.

The problem with these pro lifers and the abortion subject is that they see the women who do it callously as representatives of all the women, when the fact is they probably make up a small fraction of that group.

They do not seem to understand that it is probably one of the biggest decisions they make and do not take it lightly. When these pro lifers voice their opinion, I usually disregard it because they are usually the most vocal about their tax dollars going to these children who were given birth to by woman who did want them.

originally posted by: justagod
a reply to: DBCowboy

I hate abortions but I also hate others deciding what others can do with their body. It is like that saying goes by Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

.

We're all told what we can do with our body and always have been.

I can use my body to do allsorts of terrible things that nobody wants. I can use my body to weild a knife and strike another human down.

Not dis-similar to someone else using their body to become pregnant then have it aborted.

Again...why doesn't anyone care about the other 2 people involved? The baby in question or the man who inpregnated the female?

When it comes to two, consentual adults...the pregnant woman only constitutes 33.33% of the equation.

They'll say this doesn't matter... but if some whackjob feminist comes out tomorrow and said that 33.33% of all the money earned by workers went to females there'd be outrage.

this is an issue that has been hijacked by selfish feminists who think men and babies don't matter if they decide it's so.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi
there's probably just as many women who decide to abort because it's what they know or think that the daddy wanted than there is women who are ignoring the daddy's desires...

just who the heck do you think paid for all those back ally abortions back in the day when women had virtually no spending money anyways???

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: dawnstar


I wonder what country the victim of this rape came from? Notice how that aspect of the whole article is avoided? Refugee, Illegal? But let's keep the borders open and allow people who don't deserve to be brought into our civilized society to COME ON IN!

I'm confused... how did you make the leap from 12 year old rape victim and abused child to illegal immigration? They didn't provide any information because she's 12. Unless you've got something else I'm unaware of, I think it's a pretty lengthy leap in logic to get from A to G in this instance.

Oh..there probably is is there, probably?

Probably!

You're probably right. We can't dispute probably...

I can probably just make up my own facts and add the world 'probably' as a disclaimer of sorts, it's not absolute...just probably.

a reply to: dawnstar

Horrific situation, to be sure, but far from the norm for abortions. Cherry-pick much?

As for this case, abortion carries its own risks, and those can be just as serious, or more so, as any associated with delivering a baby. The abortion industry isn't safe, as claimed, and even a "safe" procedure can have life-changing effects on a person, especially one so young. Does a child of twelve understand that she could lose the ability to ever have a child? That she could die from the procedure? The pain involved? The emotional distress of knowing, for the rest of her life, that her decision ended another life? Many adults who chose abortion don't understand those things till after making the decision. I have spoken to someone who had ore than one, who now speaks out strongly against it. That's a lot for a child of twelve to manage.

This isn't the simple case you want it to be.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

Dr. David Grimes, who has been providing abortion care for four decades, is worried that the time period before abortion was legalized in the United States is becoming a distant memory.
“I’m 67 now, and people younger than me don’t remember what the bad old days were like. That’s why people seem so complacent about allowing those days to return,” he said in an interview with ThinkProgress.
Grimes, who currently works as a clinical professor in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, was in his final year of medical school when Roe v. Wade was handed down. When he was a young doctor, he treated some of the women who were injured by the unsafe abortions that were still being performed in the 1970s.

People younger than me don’t remember what the bad old days were like.
He still remembers some of the extreme cases he encountered. One patient, for example, was running a 106 degree fever after having a rubber catheter inserted in her uterus in an attempt to terminate a pregnancy. Another arrived at the hospital in a state of antiseptic shock with a dead fetus inside of her.
In his new book — entitled Every Third Woman in America: How Legal Abortion Transformed Our Nation — Grimes returns to those days. And he uses the stories from that time period to argue that medical historians will put legal abortion on par with antibiotics, vaccinations, and modern contraception as one of the most meaningful advances of the 20th century

In the decade when Grimes was born, the 1940s, there were records of more than 1,000 women dying each year from unsafe and largely self-induced abortions. Every large municipal hospital in the U.S. had a “septic abortion ward,” and treatment for the complications from so-called “incomplete abortion” was the single leading cause for admission for OB-GYN services across the country. National Opinion Research Center surveys conducted in the 1960s found that hundreds of women were attempting to self-abort by penetrating themselves with knitting needles, coat hangers, bicycle spokes, ballpoint pens; others tried to swallow chemicals like turpentine, laundry bleach, and acid.

When the laws began to change, almost overnight, deaths from septic abortion disappeared,” he told ThinkProgress. “Any way you look at it, abortion has been an astounding public health success.”

thinkprogress.org...


How desperate would a woman need to be to do that ..... Hardly pleasant and

knowing she had a good chance of dying.

And you asked about the man's rights? You mean if they hadn't long gone, they

weren't aware of what was going on?

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Way to cherry pick one case out of 600k abortions per year. I am against abortion overall but am fine with it being allowed in the case of rape, which is maybe 3% of all abortions. Get rid of the other 598k convenience abortions the USA does.

STANDING OVATION!

Thank you for saving me the time typing - I couldn't have said it better that's for sure.

peace

a reply to: eletheia

If David Grimes the abortion guy, who is elderly...if he says it then it must be true.

Naturally, he comes from a place without bias. Are you trying to change my mind?

I'm not trying to change yours.

That what you just posted is meaningless to me.

You might aswell post a snippet from some article where a banker stresses the importance of banking...natually, an elderly banker.

Because we all know elderly people can't be wrong...but i bet you a billion dollars that if I cared enough I could find an elderly doctor who completely contradicts the views of Mr Grimes. You'd probably completely ignore that, too, just just you ignored the fact that you failed to read all of my posts before your emotional outburst, earlier.

Lastly...this Grimes guy, can you verify his credibility in any way? Do you know him? What makes his opinion gospel?

I don't think my opinion is gospel...you don't have to agree with me.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

early term abortions are safer than giving birth in the best of circumstances.. it's those that are done in later terms that pose the most danger... but by all means set up more roadblocks so that they are done later!!
you are nuts to think that it would be safer for a 12year old than giving birth!! and, quite frankly, she just might not be able to give birth again after giving birth... probably more likely!!

originally posted by: olaru12
Then forget the religious part and mind your own business. We also don't need your personal arrogant sense of morality making decisions for others either.

Do you even hear yourself?? You have no problem with her making a decision for the person she's carrying or with someone else making the decision to abort, but you call someone with a different opinion arrogant?

Pot, meet kettle.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

well maybe you will believe it if it is coming from a pro-life view!!!
thefederalist.com...

You kow...just because someone tries to abort their own child doesn't mean abortion is right.

I recently saw a program about people who wanted big butts...and they couldn't afford it, so they were going to these crazy doctors who weren't qualified and these doctors were injecting their bums with all sorts of crap.

So by your logic...free bum jobs for everyone...have you seen the consequences of self-performed cosmetic surgery?

Stupid people do stupid things.

For example...a stupid person who doesn't want to have a baby might go and get pregnant because they don't have any self control. And that same stupid person might then go and try to abort their own child.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

well maybe you will believe it if it is coming from a pro-life view!!!
thefederalist.com...

No...you don't get it.

I'm not about repeating others' opinions....I'm capable of forming my own,

Which is what I have done...to reiterate...you don't need to agree. Why don't people understand this? If I were you...and you were me, and you said the stuff I've said...I'd just go...so?

Good for you.

If that had happened when I first got involved in this discussion...I'd have left ages ago.

But what happened instead was...I was attacked for having a different opinion to others' posting in this thread.

It's completely hypocritical...so on one hand people who want abortions have a right to think and feel how they want...but me?

I don't...my opinion is that of a monster and I must change it. Read this and that, etc.

No thanks.

originally posted by: Skywatcher2011
So people condemn abortion because it kills an unborn human. Yet, when ISIS goes off killing people countries stand by and do what? NOTHING.

There are bigger fish to dry in the ocean. Let the girl enjoy her childhood. Let society not rob her of that! Let her relative go to jail for that.

Are you actually attempting to claim that people who are pro-life don't care if terrorists kill people? Really??

That's some strawman.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Lol...I had a proper laugh at that guy.

You can't talk about abortion unless you do somethign about ISIS - that's what I got from that.

Dunno what he wants me to do...I don't even own a gun. Maybe I should smack their bums.

But it stands to reason...you ain't defeated ISIS you've no place discussing the morals or ethical aspects of abortion.

Reminds me of a mate, actually.

In school I had ths friend who was a bit mental, he had this crazy obsession with a local football club and got involved in some football hooligan stuff.

He got right into it and decided he must have a tattoo. So he and another nutter who he got involved with decided, as they were like 15 years old...to do their own tattoo's.

And it went horribly wrong, his arm swelled up. He did permenantly mark his arm for life, some bizarre stamp that you couldn't really make out what it was meant to be.

I mean, he was fine but still...it shows you how crazy people can be, how determined they can be to do stupid things to their own bodies. Everyone agreed...even then as young teenagers, that these lads were idiots.

Nobody was advocating peoples rights to have a tattoo...that's not to say you shouldn't have one, or that you absolutely shouldn't do it yourself. It's that thing about consequences again...I mean you're welcome to try it yourself but I wouldn't advise it.

And if you do...and your arm swells up, you get blood poisoning, perhaps lose an arm, die...or even simply end up with a hideously deformed arm....that's a lesson in Darwinism.

I really have to go, now...didn't realise the time. Needless to say I feel exactly the same about this whole issue as I did at the start of the discussion.

What can you do, eh?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

early term abortions are safer than giving birth in the best of circumstances.. it's those that are done in later terms that pose the most danger... but by all means set up more roadblocks so that they are done later!!
you are nuts to think that it would be safer for a 12year old than giving birth!! and, quite frankly, she just might not be able to give birth again after giving birth... probably more likely!!

That's simply not true. I don't know where you get your stats, but childbirth isn't like it was in the Dark Ages. Childbirth is generally pretty safe. Even with complications (and I know about those, having had them personally) it's usually fairly simple to take care of problems. IN any case such as this one, many things have to be considered. The child could be quite undeveloped physically or she could be very close to mature, depending. Some are, at that age, and some aren't. Not an easy case, however. Plus, does the crime of the relative who raped her mean that an unborn child has to die? That IS a consideration as well. There are TWO children at risk here, not one. No easy solution.

The only thing easy about this case is what should be done to that relative. Hanging would work, or a firing squad, or some other methods I won't detail here.

As stated, this is not an easy case. She might see harm from a birth, and she might also see harm from an abortion. There is, you understand, no such thing as a 0% risk abortion.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Lol...I had a proper laugh at that guy.

You can't talk about abortion unless you do somethign about ISIS - that's what I got from that.

Dunno what he wants me to do...I don't even own a gun. Maybe I should smack their bums.

But it stands to reason...you ain't defeated ISIS you've no place discussing the morals or ethical aspects of abortion.

Surreal, the arguments some offer. Same silliness as those claiming you can't justify being pro-life unless you financially support every baby. What utter nonsense! Yet many of these same types will be all for withholding care from someone who doesn't "contribute" to society as much as they think they should, such as the disabled or elderly.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

so, who is best fit to understand all these risks, the doctor trained in medicine, or a few judges who aren't, or a bunch of politicians elected into office??
and who is best to decide which of these risks should be taken on, if not the person facing them? you want to say that the girl is unable to make an informed decision by herself, okay, are you willing to accept the decision that is made for her is for her to have an abortion she doesn't wish to have as quickly as you would accept a decision not to allow one?