12-year-old raped by relative can have abortion without parents’ consent, Alabama court rules

a reply to: dawnstar

By the early 1990s in the United States, the risk of death in early abortion was less than 1 death per 1 million procedures, and for later abortion, about 1 death per 100,000 procedures (Koonin et al. 1992). The overall risk of death in abortion was about 0.4 deaths per 100,000 procedures compared with a maternal mortality rate (exclusive of abortion) of about 9.1 deaths per 100,000 live births (Koonin et al. 1991a, 1991b).

family.jrank.org...

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: dawnstar

12-year-old raped by relative can have abortion without parents’ consent, Alabama court rules.

Another case of the state exercising its control over the child and showing whose boss.

The 12 year old wants the abortion. Her mother is trying to force her to keep it. The court ruled that it was the girl's decision to make. The state wasn't exercising its control but its compassion to a rape victim.

This thread... it is disgusting. The victim is 12.

12

Not only is she just 12 years old but she was RAPED by a relative.

Whatever her decision, people should just shut the f**k up, and let her do what she needs to in order to start the long and painful healing process.

a reply to: dawnstar

just to be pedantic [ not disagreeing with you ]

but - the complications rate for abortion is MAINLY governed by the " age " of the featus - mothers age is not a significan factor [ if all other health issues are weighted ]

but complications in child birth ARE age weighted - with under 16s and over 50s having higer risk than 25 ~ 30 s [ when other health factors are eliminated ]

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: dawnstar

12-year-old raped by relative can have abortion without parents’ consent, Alabama court rules.

Another case of the state exercising its control over the child and showing whose boss.

No, it's a case of the judiciary giving justice to a child whose caregivers have failed as parents and failed as human beings.

Regardless of an abortion or no, not only does the child have to live with the rape, she has to live with the enduring consequences of that. And unfortunately, there are hundreds of thousands of children around the world who experience the same fate.

Or are you just completely against child protection?

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: dawnstar

12-year-old raped by relative can have abortion without parents’ consent, Alabama court rules.

Another case of the state exercising its control over the child and showing whose boss.

The 12 year old wants the abortion. Her mother is trying to force her to keep it. The court ruled that it was the girl's decision to make. The state wasn't exercising its control but its compassion to a rape victim.

This thread... it is disgusting. The victim is 12.

12

Not only is she just 12 years old but she was RAPED by a relative.

Whatever her decision, people should just shut the f**k up, and let her do what she needs to in order to start the long and painful healing process.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Azureblue

oh, ya, let's make this a case for parental rights,
never mind that in this case the parents don't seem to be in the least bit fit...
never mind that when mom found out about the pregnancy, she abused the girl which was the reason why the girl was place into foster care for the fifth time..
by god, that 12 year old girl should have been able to control something that was probably way beyond her control and prevented that rape!!!

I will agree that whoever is looking after this 12 year old girl needs to have knowledge of the abortion taking place... so she can monitor the girls health and watch for any complications...
but I disagree that either the state or the parents should be allowed to prevent her from getting the abortion in any way.. heck, I lean closer to a position where she should automatically get the abortion even if she doesn't want it if the doctor says it's too dangerous, which, many probably would! but, then, I've seen the result that this causes on a person through the years mentally firsthand, so I side with...
it's the girls say that matters!!!

so I side with... it's the girls say that matters!!! - I agree but the state via the court should not have made the decision the child could or could not have the abortion. It should have stayed out of the family and the child's way and let the child take whatever action the child wanted to.

its dangerous to agree with state interference in peoples lives just because we happen to agree with their ruling they made. A better arguement and a better decision by the court would have been that the court has no power to interfere in the family so therefore its for the child and family to decide.

THEN they could have put in place a mechanism or a process to make very certain, the child's whish's were paramount in the decision.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Azureblue

oh, ya, let's make this a case for parental rights,
never mind that in this case the parents don't seem to be in the least bit fit...
never mind that when mom found out about the pregnancy, she abused the girl which was the reason why the girl was place into foster care for the fifth time..
by god, that 12 year old girl should have been able to control something that was probably way beyond her control and prevented that rape!!!

I will agree that whoever is looking after this 12 year old girl needs to have knowledge of the abortion taking place... so she can monitor the girls health and watch for any complications...
but I disagree that either the state or the parents should be allowed to prevent her from getting the abortion in any way.. heck, I lean closer to a position where she should automatically get the abortion even if she doesn't want it if the doctor says it's too dangerous, which, many probably would! but, then, I've seen the result that this causes on a person through the years mentally firsthand, so I side with...
it's the girls say that matters!!!

As I said in another reply, the court should have stayed out it and referred the decision back to the child and the parents. THEN put in place a process to ensure the childs desires are carried through.

its dangerous to welcome state interference in families just because we happen to agree with their ruling. We cant risk agreeing with state interference.

originally posted by: Azureblue

so I side with... it's the girls say that matters!!! - I agree but the state via the court should not have made the decision the child could or could not have the abortion. It should have stayed out of the family and the child's way and let the child take whatever action the child wanted to.
its dangerous to agree with state interference in peoples lives just because we happen to agree with their ruling they made. A better arguement and a better decision by the court would have been that the court has no power to interfere in the family so therefore its for the child and family to decide.

THEN they could have put in place a mechanism or a process to make very certain, the child's whish's were paramount in the decision.

Your allowing for a 12 year old make a major decision which will effect

her for the rest of her life when by law she is regulated to....

# Attend school

# Is not allowed to buy or drink alcohol

# To smoke

# Drive a car

# Consent to sex

# Get married

# Left home alone for a lengthy time (UK)


She has probably only just stopped playing with dolls, hasn't yet had

the obligatory 'sex' education talks. Cannot contemplate where the

baby will exit, and doesn't think of it as anything other than a 'living doll'!!


She needs time and care to come to terms with the rape and violation

and the inevitable 'flashbacks' which will take years.


She is not capable of making a rational decision at her age and

in her condition.

originally posted by: Lysergic
More black children are aborted than are born.


A very true statement and with the "black lives matter" movement.
I think that black lives matter should begin in the womb.

a reply to: eletheia

as no one answered the question first time i posted it - i shall ask you direct :

who benefits by forcing // allowing // permitting the child to give birth to her rapists baby ?

further - the counterpoint to your above " arguments "

what would you REALLY say if the girl expressed a wish to carry the pregnancy to full term // give birth

cannot have it both ways

a reply to: Azureblue

The family?

Did you fail to read that the girls family are largely responsible for the abuse she suffered, which lead to the pregnancy? Did you fail to read that the mother of this girl physically assaulted her upon finding out that she was pregnant?

Let me make something clear...

This girls parents are abusive, and unfit to perform the role, which is why she is now under the care of the state, and SHOULD be. I am rarely one to recommend that the state involve itself at the narrow end of a families life, but in cases like this and similar, they MUST, and you should support that, because failure to do so is how you get generational victimisation, repeated sexual abuse at the hands of "responsible" adults, and generations of inbreeding, not to mention psychologically damaged people!

If you do not want that, then you have to accept some state assistance.

a reply to: dawnstar


Several years ago one of my friends 12 year old was raped by an 18
year old.She did get pregnant from this and did keep the baby.She
was physically mature enough to go through the pregnancy and birth
without much trouble.If she had wanted an abortion I think her mother
would have agreed to it.
The difference here is that my friend's daughter wanted to keep the baby.
This girl doesn't want to and this should have been something worked
between the family.I am pro-life but under certain circumstances I agree
with an abortion.A child shouldn't be forced to have a child.

but - the complications rate for abortion is MAINLY governed by the " age " of the featus - mothers age is not a significan factor [ if all other health issues are weighted ]

a reply to: ignorant_ape

yes, sooner is better... which is why I wonder how long did it take to get through the court system? or to be more precise, did the delay turn a early 2nd trimester pregnancy into a third trimester pregnancy?

but complications in child birth ARE age weighted - with under 16s and over 50s having higer risk than 25 ~ 30 s [ when other health factors are eliminated ]

she's only 12, it's a high risk pregnancy.

a reply to: dawnstar

i suspect that the wingnuts are attempting to abuse the system with stall tactics to ensure that an abortion is not actually possible

a reply to: eletheia

I don't know about the state she is in, but in some states, like my home state...
legally, she wouldn't be allowed to be left alone with the baby for any extended period of time ever.

being in a foster care situation, maybe if she was lucky, they could find her a foster home that would take both her and baby in and allow for her to play mommy to the child some hoping that some day, she would become mature enough to take on the responsibility herself...
but, then, she would be more like a big sister in the child's eyes probably than a mother...

I think that under these kinds of circumstances, unless it was a late term abortion, most doctors would recommend abortion as the safest route. and, I think that in most cases, most mental health counselors would also if the child was repeatedly saying that they didn't want to go through the pregnancy. this child had been given mental health counseling as soon as she was place in foster care is sounds like, they seem to have supported the girl's decision.

but what if she had wanted to keep the baby and the mental health and doctors all were saying the risk was too great?
what if she was a mentally disabled adult and the doctors and mental health doctors were saying it was too great? should an abortion be forced on her?
I don't know if they do this anywhere in the country anymore, but I do know that they used to. and I know that there is one women in NY who is still pretty much psychologically screwed up because it was done to her.
matter of fact, I do believe that this was a tactic that the eugenicist used to use to sterilize large sections of our population along with abort their babies... native american, blacks, the poor, the misfits...
they were all damaged goods, unfit to be parents...
as soon as the door is opened to deny this one 12 year old her wishes on this, because she just isn't able to comprehend or understand.. we open the door to the eugenicists to pick and choose who is or isn't able to make their own decision, who should or shouldn't be allowed to have children.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

of course they are...
and if the poor girl was to end up dying because of their games, well, they'd just act sad and tell us all that she is in a better place now, that god loved her so much, he just had to have her in heaven with him...

a reply to: dawnstar

Totally agree, while its part of her body or any womens body then its 'her' body and she can decide to do as she wishes. To have a young girls life ruined by having to grow up to fast to take care of a child, that has come from such a horrendous act would only f*ck her head up even more. This could lead to all kinds of mental disorders and in some cases future suicide. Allowing her body to remove something she never wanted, should always be the option.

It's ridiculous how they fight for the unborn fetus, then once its born and in the system they could not give two sh*ts about it. Just another human to push into the job market to make more money for the government.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
as no one answered the question first time i posted it - i shall ask you direct :

who benefits by forcing // allowing // permitting the child to give birth to her rapists baby ?

No one I don't know where you get the idea that I think she should

go through the pregnancy?

She is a 12 year old child and this trauma will haunt her, without

it being added to with a pregnancy.

Anyone who has watched adults in their 40's, 50's and 60's being interviewed

on historical sex abuse cases will see how it effects their lives and even

years after they get flash backs. I can vouch for the truth in that.

further - the counterpoint to your above " arguments "
what would you REALLY say if the girl expressed a wish to carry the pregnancy to full term // give birth
cannot have it both ways

I repeat 'she is a child' As parents we should protect our children

when they are not in a position to know what is best for them!

I was never popular with my children when I took a stand with "Because I

said so" but then I wasn't out to win any popularity contest.

Now when they are grown with their own children, they are grateful for

the many times I intervened on their behalves.

originally posted by: WUNK22
Id like to hear more about the life sentence for the rapist?or is this just a cultural thing that we don't understand?a reply to: dawnstar

Did you not read that it happened Alabama?

I'm all for stereo types
Certain things are referred to as 'stereo types' because they happen at pretty regular intervals.
To tell me 'stereo types' are offence is to say good common sense is offensive


But on a serious note, rape is the one instance where I think abortion is alright...
It's not something anybody will ever feel good about doing, it sucks, even if it's justified in some twisted moral way.

I don't get people on this site.

They are the same ones I've seen on many threads decrying the "sexualization" of children but are perfectly okay with advocating for a 12 year old victim of rape and incest to give birth. Birth which is The ultimate result of sex.