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Fermi Paradox - Communications Problem

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posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:06 PM
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I think it is appropriate to repeat a post made not long ago:


It remind me of the problem with SETI like initiatives to detect intelligent life activity in the cosmos by listening to radio signal. I will give us, human as an example. We began to use radio transmission in the early 20th century but not until mid-1920s, that amplifying vacuum tubes allowed practical and powerfull radio transmissions.

From that time, radio transmissions were mostly analogic, exhibiting strong and discrete powerfull spectral peaks that can be easily detected against noise and qualified as being not natural. But still if we orient an antenna toward earth, we will get thousands upon thousands of these signals one over the other and it will mostly look like noise. Imagine this a couples light year away and drowned in the radio noise the sun emit.

Now come the 21th century and all radio transmissions are being converted to numeric with a spectral enveloppe designed to minimize discrete spectral peaks and compressed to get maximal spectrum efficiency. These numeric transmissions, even when near and strong simply look like noise. Look at them using a spectrum analyser if you don't believe me.

There is no chance these signals could be detected vs noise couples light years away. So my point is for human civilisation, the radio detection window, if such thing is possible, only existed for a mere ~80 years!!! We are not talking million years here.




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: Cofactor
I think it is appropriate to repeat a post made not long ago:

So my point is for human civilisation, the radio detection window, if such thing is possible, only existed for a mere ~80 years!!! We are not talking million years here.

Yeah, but the other point is that even if radio transmissions from an alien civilization even only lasted an average of 100 years or so, then if they exist they still should be filling the skies with signals. We could potentially pick up a signal from a planet 5,000 light years away if they were broadcasting 5,000 years ago, 5,010 ly away if they were broadcasting 5,010 years ago, and so on back billions of years from billions of planets.

But we don't. Signal degradation is a tough nut to crack. Particularly if we're looking for something that is rare or non-existent to begin with.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
If even the most conservative estimates about intelligent life in the universe are close we are most certainly not alone.

The most conservative estimate is zero.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: Moohide
According to this article from 2010 - Article - we are leaving less of a footprint by turning to digital as opposed to analogue.

From the article Frank Drake says "Human beings are making it harder for extraterrestials to pick up our broadcasts and make contact". (By using digital), your transmissions will become four times fainter because digital uses less power. Very soon we will become undetectable," he said. In short, in space no one will hear us at all.

So by advancing technology, we become quieter, so i would think that would be the same for an alien civilisation.

So we need to build something that is a lot more powerful for detecting than our current tech if we want to find other beings, that also covers every single band, frequency, wave and spectrum known to us (radio, IR, gamma, x-ray everything). Yes it would cost money and need tremendous computing power, but we are advancing technology very quickly at the moment.

The only signals we send out - digital OR analog - that are strong enough to detect 15 LY away are radar pulses sent when we map the surfaces of planets and the Moon. And then only if the alien planet happens to be in the same direction.

Regular TV and Radio, even if it's all analog, doesn't have a chance at that distance.

Harte



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Yeah, but the other point is that even if radio transmissions from an alien civilization even only lasted an average of 100 years or so, then if they exist they still should be filling the skies with signals.




From that time, radio transmissions were mostly analogic, exhibiting strong and discrete powerfull spectral peaks that can be easily detected against noise and qualified as being not natural. But still if we orient an antenna toward earth, we will get thousands upon thousands of these signals one over the other and it will mostly look like noise. Imagine this a couples light year away and drowned in the radio noise the sun emit.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 06:29 PM
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I'm a big fan of technology. I wonder if there might be a way to sort through the signals by firing off an insanely fast (relativistic) rocket receiver and then using the phase differences in any linear signals to filter out most of the noise. Something I'm toying with in my head.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: UpIsNowDown

at some place in the Fermi paradox it stipulates that advanced civilizations will exterminate themselves. I believe it is a real problem and has occurred elsewhere, and might happen on earth too. We are heading the right way for this imho.

In the unlikely event that nothing destroy our civilizations, (for example, a huge meteor, eruption of massive volcanoes, nuclear war, and whatever else we may not even have thought about) it is only a matter of time ( relative to the time we have invented i mean ) before we develop technologies that will allow us to do whatever we want to do. Our imagination is limitless, but for now the means are.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Conan The Usurper
Our imagination is limitless, but for now the means are.

I have also read that one thing that could easily happen is that we develop our virtual entertainment to such a high degree that our little brains won't be able to tell the difference between the artificial and the real. And the deal with that is that virtual reality is relatively cheap compared to flying to real planets, and it's all-inclusive. You don't have to be an astronaut. All you need is the latest X-Box 4-D.

Think about the total number of years people have spent watching TV or typing junk into the Internet. Now imagine if it was a virtual reality that would allow you to personally explore thousands of planets and have wonderful adventures on them. Who would want to spend any money on exploring actual space, with its ridiculous distances and deadly radiation and chunks of boring rocks? A few academics, maybe. Otherwise, most of us would choose to immerse ourselves in VR.

So forget exploring the galaxy. We all have galaxies within our own minds. And if aliens are anything like us, they may have turned inward a long time ago and just given up on the boring emptiness of space.
edit on 10-8-2017 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Conan The Usurper
Our imagination is limitless, but for now the means are.

I have also read that one thing that could easily happen is that we develop our virtual entertainment to such a high degree that our little brains won't be able to tell the difference between the artificial and the real. And the deal with that is that virtual reality is relatively cheap compared to flying to real planets, and it's all-inclusive. You don't have to be an astronaut. All you need is the latest X-Box 4-D.

Think about the total number of years people have spent watching TV or typing junk into the Internet. Now imagine if it was a virtual reality that would allow you to personally explore thousands of planets and have wonderful adventures on them. Who would want to spend any money on exploring actual space, with its ridiculous distances and deadly radiation and chunks of boring rocks? A few academics, maybe. Otherwise, most of us would choose to immerse ourselves in VR.

So forget exploring the galaxy. We all have galaxies within our own minds. And if aliens are anything like us, they may have turned inward a long time ago and just given up on the boring emptiness of space.

That's okay.
We could develop a superpowerful wifi link with the aliens and use the VR to interact with them.


Harte



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

That is entirely possible, albeit there is a difference between androids and human beings. a virtual reality might be fun and stimulating for both, but in the end human beings are not androids or robots. we have emotions, we need food, seeing trees and walking in nature is relaxing etc. I think if human beings are too imbricated into wires, waves, technologies that are more suited for machines than organic beings, we might get sick and have a wide range of mental disorders.


or maybe not.




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