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As a freedom loving citizen, I have no choice but to oppose Obamacare

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posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
I believe liberty is a God given right. Although I have no opinion regarding expansion of medicaid by taxing the rich more, I do have a grudge with Obamacare's individual mandate. In no other country does the government force you to do something you don't like, or fine you if you don't. America is the nation of liberty. It is were the Statue of Liberty resides. America should live up to it. I have made up my mind. Obamacare is an evil and it must therefore die.


No real liberty and no real democracy can exist without socialized healthcare. You cannot talk of democracy when you don't have a healthcare system that covers everybody equally, regardless of wealth. Healthcare is a human right.

Look at the map of the world and you'll see that the countries without universal healthcare are all either really poor or dictatorial regimes, except the US... even Russia has universal healthcare.

And you are such a hypocrite, talking about Obama when you live in Canada where you have free healthcare. Hypocrite.




posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 03:23 AM
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a reply to: Agartha

Healthcare isn't a human right however it is a societal need. And as a society we should want everyone to have access to healthcare. Obama care was a good start in that it's attempting to solve the problem. Just unfortunately in the wrong way. It was written to protect insurance companies. And I believe helth is to important to be left to insurance companies. It'd not often I say this but it shouldn't be about profit.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 03:34 AM
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originally posted by: agenda51
Wasnt there a time when liberals were pro freedom? Kind of funny how that played out.



Wasn't there a time when Obamacare was a republican plan first? Also funny.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 03:38 AM
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I remember a time when Democrats hated big greedy corporations run by millionaires. Now they want to give health insurance corporations billions of dollars next year, to keep them in ObamaCare profit. WHY?



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 03:38 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
Healthcare isn't a human right however it is a societal need. And as a society we should want everyone to have access to healthcare. Obama care was a good start in that it's attempting to solve the problem. Just unfortunately in the wrong way. It was written to protect insurance companies. And I believe helth is to important to be left to insurance companies. It'd not often I say this but it shouldn't be about profit.


To me healthcare is a basic human right, just like education, sanitation, good working conditions, etc.

A society cannot be good if those basic rights are negated, and I can't believe the US is at the same level with Turkey, Afghanistan, African countries, etc.

I have said before here, your insurance system is complicated and those who are working class and defend it forget they don't know what could happen to them in the future, they may end up unemployed and without healthcare. And I think it's horrendous that those who end up in economic hardship have to rely on charities.

The US is meant to be a rich country and a democracy, it could well establish universal healthcare (without insurance) like Canada, Australia, Argentina, Russia and all European countries.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:11 AM
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While I work for a BIG pharma corp. I will say that "they" love the ACA. I do pay more for coverage now than I ever did I am ok with it because it means that those can not get coverage now can. I do believe that the ACA needs some fixing but atleast it is a step in the right direction though. a reply to: Agartha




posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:14 AM
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I would love to see more effort taken to get on the level that you speak of. The ACA was a joint effort and should still be with fixing known issues. a reply to: Agartha




posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 05:47 AM
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Honestly this has to be a joke 6 posts in 1 day, your ruining ATS mate.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 05:50 AM
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oh you hate old people, poor people and minorities I get it.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 05:50 AM
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originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: dragonridr
Healthcare isn't a human right however it is a societal need. And as a society we should want everyone to have access to healthcare. Obama care was a good start in that it's attempting to solve the problem. Just unfortunately in the wrong way. It was written to protect insurance companies. And I believe helth is to important to be left to insurance companies. It'd not often I say this but it shouldn't be about profit.


To me healthcare is a basic human right, just like education, sanitation, good working conditions, etc.

A society cannot be good if those basic rights are negated, and I can't believe the US is at the same level with Turkey, Afghanistan, African countries, etc.

I have said before here, your insurance system is complicated and those who are working class and defend it forget they don't know what could happen to them in the future, they may end up unemployed and without healthcare. And I think it's horrendous that those who end up in economic hardship have to rely on charities.

The US is meant to be a rich country and a democracy, it could well establish universal healthcare (without insurance) like Canada, Australia, Argentina, Russia and all European countries.


Once we were born we have a God given right to life, but quality of life is a different question entirely. There is the definite need for services like education, sanitation and laws to insure safe working conditions, but these aren't human rights, just necessary in a modern society.

If someone's health is declining, then they will end up needing help to survive, there is no shame in this as it is part of the human condition. Helping raise the offspring or taking care of the sick, old or lame has been something that families, clans and tribes had taken care of from the beginning, the system we have now is an extension of this human instinct.

The U.S. is what it is and I'm sure that most people living here want it to be a rich country, but that can become out of our control pretty easy.

The U.S. is not a democracy, it is a representative republic and was meant to be that way from the beginning.

As good and as noble as the idea of universal health care is, it is not a right, just like access to food, water and shelter is not a right. Providing care may be the right thing to do, but it isn't a birth right.

Example: You have the right to travel freely in the U.S., however, that doesn't mean you have a right to the means necessary for travel. You don't get a free car and well maintained roadway just because you want to travel somewhere. You don't get free passage on a train, boat or plane if you want to do some long distance traveling. People have always been responsible for their own lives, a right to live life doesn't change that fact.
edit on 23-7-2017 by MichiganSwampBuck because: added extra comments



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus


In every other modern country on the planet healthcare is considered a part of the public infrastructure.....

Because taking care of sick people isn't profitable..

The insurance companies don't profit off of their customers who use their services..

Their profits are from those who pay, but never use it.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 06:38 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Because of millions of people will be kicked off insurance AND premiums will still rise.. leading to such a damn disaster that there is no choice but single payer.

Why do you think the GOP chickened out on repealing Obamacare??

Because the ramifications would be huge and immediate.. and a disaster



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Obamacare increased taxes on the rich to expand medicaid. Taxes are a big no no in my books. Taxes are not fair on anyone, whether on the poor or on the rich.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

No pain. No gain. Nothing is perfect. Everything can be improved on. Obamacare will not be around forever. Democrats think Obamacare is perfect and does not need improvement. They are wrong.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 08:54 AM
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The Federal Govt needs to get out of the health care system and let the states run it. Allow interstate insurance to allow free market competition and reduce cost. Tort reform must also be done to allow doctors to reduce cost. Obama care is a bureaucratic tumor that was designed to fail and force a single payer system which will also collapse the market. It only helps special interests and not the American people. That's also the problem with this group of Republicans beholden to special interests who want to keep Obama care.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 08:59 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: JoshuaCox

No pain. No gain. Nothing is perfect. Everything can be improved on. Obamacare will not be around forever. Democrats think Obamacare is perfect and does not need improvement. They are wrong.


Read this so you don't continually make a fool of yourself....please!

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You can't compare traveling with healthcare.... traveling is a choice, but people don't choose to have cancer, a burst appendix or be involved in a car accident. Traveling wouldn't affect your wellbeing, free healthcare would.

I understand what you are trying to say and I know not many share my views, but I believe in equality for all, regardless of wealth, gender, ethnicity, etc. And a country cannot considered itself equal unless everybody has essential rights (the ones I mentioned above).

But socialized/universal healthcare is not free, we pay it with contributions to the state (via taxes and social security, slightly different in each country but very similar). The more you earn, the more you pay: I have a good salary and I pay a lot more taxes and national insurance than people in low paid jobs and many don't contribute at all, but I don't mind paying for others because life is unpredictable and if one day I find myself unemployed, I would love the peace of mind that free healthcare brings.

Which is exactly what the OP has which makes his rant amusing to say the least.





a reply to: Allaroundyou

Oh I can see that healthcare is a business in the US, hence people don't trust doctors, vaccines, treatments, etc. America's healthcare is expensive and it's not even the best in the world, in the latest Commonwealth Fund analysis it came 11th (UK 1st and the rest were all countries with socialized health).



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: carewemust

Because of millions of people will be kicked off insurance AND premiums will still rise.. leading to such a damn disaster that there is no choice but single payer.

Because the ramifications would be huge and immediate.. and a disaster



Since you're quoting Chuck Schumer, you might as well add in the 200,000 who will die next year, according to Schumer's fellow fear-monger, DNC chair Tom Perez.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

You'll eventually see Single Payer in the US. There's a report out that 16 million retail jobs are at risk as brick and mortar stores continue collapsing. That along with AI and robotics means that only the most brainiac will have good paying jobs. The government will have no choice except to adopt Universal Basic Income and Single Payer government run heath care. It will probably suck but everyone will have equally sucky health care, except of course, the very wealthy. One expected outcome of interest is that the birth rate will fall to something below the replacement rate. Fewer people means more room for more refugees and immigrants.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

Freely being able to travel would effect your well being. How do you intend to get to the hospital for that health care when you need it? Is traveling a choice when you drive to work or go to the store for food? Besides, the right to travel is an actual right in the constitution, there is no such right to living a healthy life as you can be born unhealthy. As you age, you will naturally become less healthy as well. You only have a right to try to live a healthy life, or to live an unhealthy one if that's how you want to live (or die for that matter), freedom of choice more or less and one of our precious liberties.

You probably believe you have a right to breathe, but if you were under water without air, you have no right to something that doesn't exist in that environment. If fish had larger brains, they'd probably believe you have no right to be under water complaining about the lack of air in the first place.

People (most of them at any rate) may not chose to be or become sick, but they never asked to be born either. No one is granted their rights by a government, human rights are endowed by their creator. You have the right to live your life as you see fit, if it conflicts with some laws, be they natural or man made, then you just have to face the consequences of your choices.




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