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Butthurt over dunkirk

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posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: Ohanka

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: nwtrucker
You cite poor communication and tactics.

...

Again, short shrift in your assessment for the German tactics...


What was so brilliant about blasting through the Low Countries again and circumventing the fixed Maginot line while pincering the French?

The French were idiots for thinking the Germans would not use this method of attack again and for not massing their tanks a la the Germans.


Blitzkrieg has rarely been match, even to this day.


Except this was not a case of Blitzkrieg, it was more Bewegungskrieg as evidence by the fact that Rommel and Gunderian disobeyed orders and drove for the coast. That maneuver was not part of Fall Gelb.


Disobeyed orders. AKA Adapt. Improvise. Both ended up Field Marshalls. Probably would have received 'courts' from the French and/or the British.

You marginalize your opposition and blame the French. Is there a Brit. yet born, that can admit they were defeated? I think not.



In France? Yeah, sure.

In the war? Nope.

We were defeated because the French high command was completely retarded and the Germans got insanely lucky to be up against such a ridiculously unprepared opponent.

Especially considering they pulled the same "go through Belgium" trick only 20 years previously. You'd think someone would've figured something out in that time.


As I have said earlier, this is a very complicated subject and just isn't that simple. I put this link up earlier, but no-one seems to have commented on it yet - here, a lecture on the Fall of France. It does a very good job in explaining the relative strategies of the French and the Germans, based on the lessons that both took from the First World War. The French High Command were not incompetent - they were just trying to fight a different war from the one that the Germans were fighting. We are talking about doctrines and mindsets that emerged on both sides in the 1920's.




posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
Disobeyed orders. AKA Adapt. Improvise. Both ended up Field Marshalls. Probably would have received 'courts' from the French and/or the British.


It still does not disprove the French had superior armor and that the German attack was somehow a masterpiece of strategy.


You marginalize your opposition and blame the French.


The earned it.


Is there a Brit. yet born, that can admit they were defeated? I think not.


No idea, find one and ask them.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker



You marginalize your opposition and blame the French. Is there a Brit. yet born, that can admit they were defeated? I think not.



Thats why the UK always tends to end up winning wars.

And insulting the French is a national past time in Britain.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
Yes it was there is two types maneuver warfare and attrition warfare. World War one fought using the attrition method. Germans changed the rules if they met resistance they would simply go around it. Your trying to make a distinction that does not exist. The same principles were used just later refined.


The Germans did not fully deploy what we now tactically call Blitzkrieg until Barbarossa. Fall Gleb was not a Blitzkrieg, it was planned specifically as a type of Bewegungskrieg attack. General von Kielmansegg called it an 'ad hoc solution that simply popped out of the prevailing situation'.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: dragonridr
Yes it was there is two types maneuver warfare and attrition warfare. World War one fought using the attrition method. Germans changed the rules if they met resistance they would simply go around it. Your trying to make a distinction that does not exist. The same principles were used just later refined.


The Germans did not fully deploy what we now tactically call Blitzkrieg until Barbarossa. Fall Gleb was not a Blitzkrieg, it was planned specifically as a type of Bewegungskrieg attack. General von Kielmansegg called it an 'ad hoc solution that simply popped out of the prevailing situation'.


Do you speak German by chance?? First it's bewegungkrieg (your misspelling it) this means motion strike. Blitzkrieg lightening strike. Blitzkrieg is a motion strike tactics didn't change they were refined.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

There was a guest on Ctc last night documenting pentagon direct influence on movie scrips in the US



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

It's Bewegungskrieg.

I saw the movie Dunkirk tonight. Came away with mixed feelings. It's very much a British movie from a British viewpoint. There's four timelines which run throughout, the boatsmen (and boys) running their little ship from Kent, the RAF pilots defending Dunkirk, the men trying to get off that beach and the Navy/Army officers on the pier trying to organise the evacuation and make sense of everything that's going on.

There's not much commentary on the politics of it all, the little there is occurs at the end of the film and for me it's a bit of a clanky ending, doesn't feel right, a bit like Schindlers List ending with 3 minutes of The Walton's.

French soldiers are on the beach waiting to be evacuated. It doesn't feel wrong that they're not mentioned much. Tbh the Germans are hardly seen at all, apart from the Luftwaffe strafing the beach and the ships. I don't feel criticism of their absence is justified.

An odd film for me. Dunno what to make of it tbh.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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I would be glad to be left out of this movie. It's a story of ineptitude. The military couldn't rescue their own people, they had to get fishermen to do their job. But even more than that, it was an awful movie. Easily Nolan's worst movie. I actually wanted to leave less than half way through. I'm glad I didn't because the 2nd half made the first half almost worth it.



posted on Jul, 23 2017 @ 11:21 PM
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I'm butt hurt over watching Dunkirk because it had awful lousy character development.Zero emotions in the movie and was very stale.
I have noticed this is an ongoing trend with movies in today's world.Just poor character development is going on in every movie.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 12:25 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
I would be glad to be left out of this movie. It's a story of ineptitude. The military couldn't rescue their own people, they had to get fishermen to do their job. But even more than that, it was an awful movie. Easily Nolan's worst movie. I actually wanted to leave less than half way through. I'm glad I didn't because the 2nd half made the first half almost worth it.


Please educate yourself over the basic facts behind this movie.
A third of a million men were taken off beaches and the mole at a time of strategic disaster, when the main ports in the area were out of action due to bombing. The military did rescue their own people. Who the hell do you think organised those little ships?



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
Do you speak German by chance??


A little, not enough to be conversational.


First it's bewegungkrieg (your misspelling it) this means motion strike. Blitzkrieg lightening strike. Blitzkrieg is a motion strike tactics didn't change they were refined.


I most certainly spelled it correctly:


Bewegungskrieg - Maneuver warfare, or manoeuvre warfare, is a military strategy that advocates attempting to defeat the enemy by incapacitating their decision-making through shock and disruption. Source



Maneuver warfare
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Bewegungskrieg) Source


And Fall Gelb was most certainly maneuver warfare as evidenced by numerous analysis of the battle and the terms used by the German High Command at the time. Blitzkrieg, as a fully evolved tactic, did not take place until Barbarossa.



edit on 24-7-2017 by AugustusMasonicus because: Armaments 2:9-21 And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats...



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 07:11 AM
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originally posted by: Jobeycool
I'm butt hurt over watching Dunkirk because it had awful lousy character development.Zero emotions in the movie and was very stale.
I have noticed this is an ongoing trend with movies in today's world.Just poor character development is going on in every movie.


** SPOILER **

I disagree. It's far from an emotionless movie.

The RAF pilot in the sinking Spitfire, whose canopy is jammed shut. The drowning men, desperately swimming towards a British warship, it itself under attack and starting to sink. The soldier hopelessly trapped under a burning sea, having to surface and gasp his last, a gasp of nothing but flames. The two officers with no hope left, seeing the little ships appear on the horizon. The soundtrack at that point made me choke, Nimrod/Elgar, so subtly done. The score is tremendous throughout.

No. It's far from emotionless. It's British emotions as they were at the time. Quietly defiant, stoic. Something this country needs to return to.

I've seen it twice now. I take back my earlier doubts. It's every bit as good as they say.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

I thought it was a horribly sad documentation of what desperate people will do to survive.
How is this film being received in england?



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast
Im glad we aren't returning to Britishness!



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

There's much to be said in favour of not wearing your heartstrings on your sleeves, not sharing your each and every emotion with all and sundry. And not telling your FB friends what you had for breakfast, lunch & dinner.

I took my old man to the first screening I saw. He was non plussed until the scene of the downed, sinking Spitfire and the trapped pilot who was unable to release the canopy. Dad was fidgety and looking uncomfortable next to me.

Dad mentioned afterwards that, during his own RN service after the war, he'd been serving on deck of a British aircraft carrier when one of it's own aircraft ditched alongside. His crew rushed to the side, unable to do much, the pilot was alive and banging the canopy with his fists as the aircraft sank. The helicopter rescue attempt failed. The pilot was lost.

Dad never mentioned the incident until last night. I'm 51, he's 81. He said he never spoke of it because he didn't want to remember it. Traditional British restraint ? Go figure. Maybe for a different thread.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

I agree I thought it is very good.
Brave generation those boys were.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 09:02 AM
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It seems TPTB have succeeded in keeping everyone's attention off what they are / will be doing in future.
Yes, let's not complain about real problems hampering peoples livelihood.

Lets complain about a movie that's abstract (to a certain extent) to begin with.

It's not like you hear the Germans moaning about every WWII movie ever made, pointing out inaccuracies etc.
edit on 24-7-2017 by GreenGunther because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Interesting , its weird how humans keep things like that to themselves knowing full well what its doing to your mind sitting in there locked away.

My own grandfathers ship was sunk in the med by a german uboat and his ship sank and many of the crew perished , fortunately many made it to dry land in Italy and had to walk from Italy to France and hitched rides here and there
and they got all the way home.

My grandfather never told anyone apart from my dad about his time in the war , he never even told his own sons billy or bobby (my eldest two uncles) he died shortly after telling my father what he'd seen.

I don't think it has anything to do with being British , its a normal human behaviour . People like to think certain human values are British but they aren't they are just decent human behaviour. Another thread we were discussing the very subject of British'ness, but what you find is its just basic human values of compassion and being intelligent.
There is a movement to see these values as core British values which is common amongst Empires wishing to look to outsiders as their betters or peers.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
If SJW wrote the script.



If my uncle had tits, he'd be my aunt.



posted on Jul, 24 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: UnBreakable

Some French units fought very well . They provided the rear guards which kept the Germans off the BEF until could be
evacuated

At Lille pocket 40,000 fought over 100,000 Germans including 3 Panzer divisions for 3 critical days from May 28- 31
until overwhelmed when out of ammo

40,000 French fought the Germans along the western perimeter of Dunkirk pocket while British were evacuated
They were forced to surrender after bulk of British and French had been pulled off beaches




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