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62 percent think federal government should be responsible for health for everyone

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Seems to me that the govt is controlled by the corps that are making huge $$ of the med system. IT cannot and will not curb costs.
Our capitalist system as it stands and affordable medical care cannot exist in the same market.

As far as subsidizing and book cooking, do you have a source?




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:12 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Individual Citizens of this Country Should be Responsible for their Own Health , the Bill of Rights Empower them to do just that . To Depend on the Federal Government for their Own Personal Health Needs is UN- American .



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

It isn't capitalist. It's crony corporatist (which is = Textbook Fascist).
Obama saw that it went to full blown Textbook Fascism. And now liberals are goosestepping like Stereotypical Fascist's to enforce it stay that way (while labeling everyone else "Fascists" for the ultimate cosmic joke).

Like I said before, have government involvement create a BUSTED system, and then call for the government to do a TOTAL mandatory takeover (classic "Problem Reaction Solution").

You go around setting up each industry along these lines and eventually you arrive at Totalitarianism (total system wide total mandated control). Whether it be Total Socialism (Communism) or Total Fascism at that point is pretty much irrelevant in scope and scheme and specifics of operation as far as We The Little People are concerned.

edit on 21-7-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So,

I like the idea of total outlawing of insurance. I would not want to be scheduled for any surgery or even seeing a dr for about 18 months after the outlaw though. Although lasik eye surgery comes to mind.

Barring that I would like to see how other countries handle this expensive proposition.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Seems to me that the govt is controlled by the corps that are making huge $$ of the med system. IT cannot and will not curb costs.
Our capitalist system as it stands and affordable medical care cannot exist in the same market.

As far as subsidizing and book cooking, do you have a source?


Then by what you are saying the government does not need to be involved in health care, huh?

www.forbes.com...

www.forbes.com...



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

How about we look at what people here in the US did back in se 1960. Or the year before Nixon did whatever he did to set this whole ordeal in motion.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:36 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
It'd be nice to actually get a return on the money I've paid into government throughout the years in the form of healthcare.

But that's too much like communism I guess..

FYI it went to defense. If you add health care.. you'll just pay more in..wayyy more..



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Again in my little heart of hearts I would like to see insurance outlawed. How the hell that would work I don't know. The medical monopoly will lobby it's little buns off to stop anything that stops the party from rolling.

For profit medical is not going to work, costs have to increase every 1/4 to keep stock holders happy. If not then this get dicey. So for profit will increase costs because it has to. The costs going up is not making better medical services.

I truly think this system is going to get much much worse. We do not have the leaders in place to handle this. We will see hospitals closing across the country after people refuse to pay the monthly premiums. This will happen, and soon.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish




Social Security isn't in near as bad a shape as republicans like to pretend. All they have to do is to end one of their special tax breaks for the rich by eliminating the S.S. tax cap on high earners.


And with one small change, I could possibly time travel. Null argument.

Fact is, within 20 years, SS goes belly up. Why? Rising healthcare costs due to insurance and pharmaceutical co's. What keeps them rising? Gov't subsidies of course! Add bad food and lifestyles to the mix and well...here we are.

You outlined very well how folk need the federal government. Creating dependency.




I can definitely tell you this, no two social programs that I can think of, do more good for more people, especially people in need.


How many folks are you putting on your caddilac plan then??



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Don't really know what to say to you other than, "I totally disagree with every word you wrote in your post."


Good for you.


Every industrialized nation on the globe, except for the United States, has managed to sustain some form of single-payer, universal healthcare system.

Many of them have been doing so since WWII and some even before that.


And look how good that's been doing for them! The USA is still a superpower and they are dwelling in substandard care.


I don't see any of them being much broker than we are right now.


Because they sink so much of their productivity into substandard one-size-fits-all care.


Did it every dawn on you that maybe one of the reasons we have the debt problems we have today is because we haven't gotten the biggest bank out of our healthcare bucks by adopting a not-for-profit, universal system and the savings one offers?


No, we have debt problems because our politicians care more about votes than responsible governance, and spend more money than the government revenues bring in. Putting government in charge of health care will only make that situation worse.

Has it even dawned on you that those so-called single payer utopias don't track their health and mortality rates with as much detail or completeness as the USA, with the effect that they look better on paper?

Has it occurred to you that people in those countries report a great quality of life because they haven't ever known of anything better?

Has it occurred to you that if you like those other countries so much, you could relocate there and enjoy their policies and leave us alone?


Well you must be getting desperate because now you're just making sh#t up.

Nations with universal healthcare are NOT dwelling in substandard care, at least not according to all the available data and statistics.

They actually experience better healthcare outcomes for a lower per capita cost than we experience here in the good ole USA.

And NO, it didn't occur to me than everyone else might be lying about their data in order to make it appear that way and that you are the only one telling the truth. Why? Because that's just plain stupid.

And no, I have no intention of relocating to one of those countries.

I can positively trace my family's roots in this country back to 1843 and we're not leaving any time soon.

Hope that doesn't ruin your day.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Don't really know what to say to you other than, "I totally disagree with every word you wrote in your post."


Good for you.


Every industrialized nation on the globe, except for the United States, has managed to sustain some form of single-payer, universal healthcare system.

Many of them have been doing so since WWII and some even before that.


And look how good that's been doing for them! The USA is still a superpower and they are dwelling in substandard care.


I don't see any of them being much broker than we are right now.


Because they sink so much of their productivity into substandard one-size-fits-all care.


Did it every dawn on you that maybe one of the reasons we have the debt problems we have today is because we haven't gotten the biggest bank out of our healthcare bucks by adopting a not-for-profit, universal system and the savings one offers?


No, we have debt problems because our politicians care more about votes than responsible governance, and spend more money than the government revenues bring in. Putting government in charge of health care will only make that situation worse.

Has it even dawned on you that those so-called single payer utopias don't track their health and mortality rates with as much detail or completeness as the USA, with the effect that they look better on paper?

Has it occurred to you that people in those countries report a great quality of life because they haven't ever known of anything better?

Has it occurred to you that if you like those other countries so much, you could relocate there and enjoy their policies and leave us alone?


Well you must be getting desperate because now you're just making sh#t up.

Nations with universal healthcare are NOT dwelling in substandard care, at least not according to all the available data and statistics.

They actually experience better healthcare outcomes for a lower per capita cost than we experience here in the good ole USA.

And NO, it didn't occur to me than everyone else might be lying about their data in order to make it appear that way and that you are the only one telling the truth. Why? Because that's just plain stupid.

And no, I have no intention of relocating to one of those countries.

I can positively trace my family's roots in this country back to 1843 and we're not leaving any time soon.

Hope that doesn't ruin your day.


Nope, to each their own.

But statistics are just that, and the ones you are referencing do not tell the whole truth. The USA does pretty well for itself once you normalize out all the factors that other countries either ignore or don't have to deal with as much.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Do you have any sources?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: JinMI

I've got the plan I've got thanks to my union and the good management principles we employ at our trust funds and my plan is a perfect example of what can be provided with good management on a not-for-profit basis.

But then, I'd just bet you're one of those people who go around badmouthing unions too.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish




Well you must be getting desperate because now you're just making sh#t up.


As to your plan, I don't disagree. Proper bargaining between private insurance companies and clients is how it is supposed to work.

But as long as it's other folks money paying for other folks insurance, no sweat off your back right?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Do you have any sources?


See my reply above



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Flatfish




Well you must be getting desperate because now you're just making sh#t up.


As to your plan, I don't disagree. Proper bargaining between private insurance companies and clients is how it is supposed to work.

But as long as it's other folks money paying for other folks insurance, no sweat off your back right?


Private insurance companies act as profit taking middle-men who serve no useful purpose and have no positive affect on medical outcomes.

My group is self insured. We literally created our own not-for-profit, preferred provider organization for our union employees and retirees and I'm not authorized to add beneficiaries.

I'm more than willing to pay my fair share of the taxes required in order to support a national single-payer, not-for-profit, universal healthcare system even though I'm not currently the one who needs additional coverage.

So yeah, it would mean a little sweat off my back, but it would be well worth it and I'm willing to do it, because my fellow Americans need it.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

Talk is cheap when you retired what 13 years ago?



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 12:00 AM
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One day.. probably a fair bit into the future.. free health care and free education will be the norm. So I guess.. take that as you will. People scoff at one-world-money.. government.. but if it is the right monetary system.. the right government.. it's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately religion screws it all up, and I doubt we'll see eye-to-eye on that for centuries.

Of course, I do feel before that happens.. people need to pull their weight. But they need to be given a chance to do so. A few hundred years from now, when everyone has access to health care and education regardless of their status, they will laugh at our current time history.

Tell me this - do you think it makes sense you go to college.. pay anywhere from 30 to 90k that will put you in debt for years (or decades), for an education taught by students in a crappy overcrowded college, and might get you a crappy job, afterwards? At least in the U.S., the college education system is broken, run by greed. Our health system and insurance and big pharm.. run by greed. Not sustainable and no.. it doesn't make sense.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 12:04 AM
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a reply to: fleabit

Nothing is free. Especially not things that need to be produced (at top medical grade specs no less), and especially not people's labor (people whom go $100K+ in education debt to become certified no less).

I've yet to note any real deal pro-"free" health etc economist takes on this stuff.............
edit on 22-7-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 02:35 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

But statistics are just that, and the ones you are referencing do not tell the whole truth. The USA does pretty well for itself once you normalize out all the factors that other countries either ignore or don't have to deal with as much.


Care to substantiate that?



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