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62 percent think federal government should be responsible for health for everyone

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: TacSite18

Perhaps when local hospitals close down in a national collapse, people will start to trim big medical's massive wings.

I hear alot of socialism this and freedom taking that. Wait til you NEED your appendix out, and there is #1 no hospital or #2 they need $50,000 up front. And I would not say it can't happen.




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: TacSite18

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.


Medicaid only has a 1% overhead cost, and provides the same or better outcomes as private insurace, but insurance has a 20% overhead, which goes to millionaire CIOs Nd stockholders.

I am out - tired pointing this out to the same idiots over and over. Screw you poor bastards. Die without health care if you want. I got mine, am well off. Keep on making up good arguments to have crappy care and die poor.


I have a great doctor and if I need her I pay her.

Kind of like every other good or service I need.

I don't need the Government involved or you for that matter.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Govt set standards for your Dr. to meet.

That dr more than likely traveled roads, those socialistic roads.

So did all the supplies and drugs that you may need.

Things get complicated and hard and tough personal rules get violated in a hurry. Don't they?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: TacSite18

Perhaps when local hospitals close down in a national collapse, people will start to trim big medical's massive wings.

I hear alot of socialism this and freedom taking that. Wait til you NEED your appendix out, and there is #1 no hospital or #2 they need $50,000 up front. And I would not say it can't happen.


Seasonal, I like you and usually I agree with you, but I don't understand people that feel good about forcing other people to do something they don't want to do.

Also, you don't get to make up stuff that isn't happening and then use that to validate your argument. If there is a need the product will be available.

I want to live in a society of choice where the rights of the individual are the priority and are protected. I will always be that guy...its who I am.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: TacSite18

Idiot. That's a funny word, no?
Describes a stupid person or more accurately, one who refuses to absolve themselves of ignorance.


Is this a care or insurance issue?

Why are the two so closely interconnected and hand held by our federal government???




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Flatfish




Forcing you to participate in universal healthcare is just simply making sure that you pay your fair share, because sooner or later you're gonna need it too.


Is not for anyone else to decide for another.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Facilitate healthcare and prop up insurance companies is not listed.


And you never once heard me promote propping up insurance companies in any way, shape or form, so please don't go around creating false arguments and attributing them me. It's hard to get much more phony than that.

This is no different than Social Security or Medicare and it's part of promoting the long term general welfare of our people.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Roads existed long before Governments.

If people need to trade goods they will build a road.

We don't need Government to do that...how many properties have you owned where you had to build your own road? I know I have had quite a few.

If people need to get somewhere a road will get built...with or without Government interference.

edit on 2017/7/21 by Metallicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish




And you never once heard me promote propping up insurance companies in any way, shape or form,

Ok......



Forcing you to participate in universal healthcare is just simply making sure that you pay your fair share, because sooner or later you're gonna need it too.


Can you describe how social security and medicare are doing now?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Are you saying that a 4-9% medical cost growth yearly is sustainable?


We are literally at a tipping point.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish




This is no different than Social Security or Medicare and it's part of promoting the long term general welfare of our people.


I don't want to be involved or participate in those programs either. All of it is an infringement on my personal liberty and my rights as a human being.

I can't believe how many freaking Fascists are on ATS.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Don't really know what to say to you other than, "I totally disagree with every word you wrote in your post."


Good for you.


Every industrialized nation on the globe, except for the United States, has managed to sustain some form of single-payer, universal healthcare system.

Many of them have been doing so since WWII and some even before that.


And look how good that's been doing for them! The USA is still a superpower and they are dwelling in substandard care.


I don't see any of them being much broker than we are right now.


Because they sink so much of their productivity into substandard one-size-fits-all care.


Did it every dawn on you that maybe one of the reasons we have the debt problems we have today is because we haven't gotten the biggest bank out of our healthcare bucks by adopting a not-for-profit, universal system and the savings one offers?


No, we have debt problems because our politicians care more about votes than responsible governance, and spend more money than the government revenues bring in. Putting government in charge of health care will only make that situation worse.

Has it even dawned on you that those so-called single payer utopias don't track their health and mortality rates with as much detail or completeness as the USA, with the effect that they look better on paper?

Has it occurred to you that people in those countries report a great quality of life because they haven't ever known of anything better?

Has it occurred to you that if you like those other countries so much, you could relocate there and enjoy their policies and leave us alone?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Metallicus

Are you saying that a 4-9% medical cost growth yearly is sustainable?


We are literally at a tipping point.


Government involvement isn't the answer.

People need to pay for services rendered and cut out insurance companies.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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We are a super power because of the petro dollar and military might. We are also in $20,000,000,000,000 in debt. We are a nation in terrible debt.


And look how good that's been doing for them! The USA is still a superpower and they are dwelling in substandard care.
a reply to: Teikiatsu

We are #1 in health care cost and #37 in health related outcomes.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Flatfish

Forcing you to participate in universal healthcare is just simply making sure that you pay your fair share, because sooner or later you're gonna need it too.


Fascist much?


It's no more fascist than you paying your fair share for the roads you drive on, or the electric grid you're plugged into, or the police who patrol your neighborhood, or the water tower that maintains pressure in your home. It's just called paying your fair share.

Freeloader much?


Health insurance is a commodity. I'm not forced to buy a car or purchase electricity.

I choose to.

Why do you hate freedom so much?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:15 PM
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It'd be nice to actually get a return on the money I've paid into government throughout the years in the form of healthcare.

But that's too much like communism I guess..



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Flatfish




And you never once heard me promote propping up insurance companies in any way, shape or form,

Ok......



Forcing you to participate in universal healthcare is just simply making sure that you pay your fair share, because sooner or later you're gonna need it too.


Can you describe how social security and medicare are doing now?


Social Security isn't in near as bad a shape as republicans like to pretend. All they have to do is to end one of their special tax breaks for the rich by eliminating the S.S. tax cap on high earners.

Medicare needs attention, (especially in light of our aging baby boomer generation) but it's not unfixable and it should be noted that Medicare has the lowest administrative cost of any healthcare provider in America.

Now, did I mention that both of those programs are currently providing life sustaining benefits to tens of millions of people nationwide?

Did I mention how a full one third of this nation's nursing home residents rely on their S.S. & Medicare benefits to provide their care in those facilities?

I can definitely tell you this, no two social programs that I can think of, do more good for more people, especially people in need.

I'm much like another poster in this thread whereas I'm retired with a Cadillac healthcare plan that has no deductibles and hasn't charged me a single dime in premiums in the 13 yrs I've been retired.

I don't need the insurance, but our nation does.

And.....It's the right thing to do.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: allsee4eye

Other countries are there to learn from with many examples of better care being provided for a much better cost.


And an important fact is that of all the countries that implemented single payor health care, not a single one has ever tried to get rid of it. The citizens of the US pay more to get sicker and die earlier.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

You with your darn facts and well thought out posts-shame,shame.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

We are #1 in cost because we subsidize the rest of the planet, and #37 because those other countries cook their books.

We are $20T in debt because the government is not responsible, which is the #1 reason to keep their hands off our health care.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: allsee4eye

Other countries are there to learn from with many examples of better care being provided for a much better cost.


And an important fact is that of all the countries that implemented single payor health care, not a single one has ever tried to get rid of it. The citizens of the US pay more to get sicker and die earlier.


The citizens of the USA pay more to subsidize singer payer countries who have price controls.

The citizens of the USA don't 'get sicker', we get overdiagnosed in a self-absorbed society filled with hypochondriacs and ambulance chasers.

The citizens of the USA don't 'die earlier', we have more precise metrics and count things like inner-city violence, traffic accidents and abortions towards our mortality rates.
edit on 21-7-2017 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



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