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62 percent think federal government should be responsible for health for everyone

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:37 PM
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i find it ironic how these people promoting socialized healthcare are handing everything over to corporations by supporting obamacare. imagine, socialists supporting corporate takeover of healthcare...




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Everyone already has public education.


How ironic. People educated by federal guidelines think federal oversight is needed for their health.

Gosh.

It's almost like terrible education leads to terrible life paradigms.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: namehere
i find it ironic how these people promoting socialized healthcare are handing everything over to corporations by supporting obamacare. imagine, socialists supporting corporate takeover of healthcare...


There aren't any socialists in America. The very meaning of the word in America has a totally different meaning to the rest of the world. It's really quite remarkable.

Only in America could a man like Bernie Sanders be considered a socialist.

And only in America are self-proclaimed Socialists the most racist and sexist people apparently in the entire country, more concerned with bringing back segregation and all sorts of other ridiculous nonsense rather than advocating the working poor.

Infact the American left does everything in it's power to # upon the working poor at every opportunity.
edit on -050005pm7kpm by Ohanka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So 62% are Socialist / Communist / Textbook Fascist, then.





Name calling is such an effective debate tactic.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.

On the other hand, most of us are terrible at keeping ourselves healthy. I'm not all that great at building roads or spaceships, either. So I'm willing to let the government take over the grunt work.


The government doesn't build roads. Contractors bid on jobs.


Government doesn't do heart surgery either, surgeons perform those jobs.

No one is saying that our government should be performing your healthcare procedures, only that they administer the program that pays those who do. Kinda like building those roads.


Is it not a total government takeover of the industry we're talking about here? Are there going to be bidding wars on each surgery to drive competition within the system?

If not that sounds like government employees to me. I wonder do they get federal worker benefits like everyone whom works at the airport?


originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: rickymouse

How do you cut 100% of the cronyism out of 100% of the system (the real problem)? There's a lot more involved in that machination then the man hours involved in fixing your booboo.


You quit shooting for unachievable goals, that's how.

You're never gonna eliminate 100% of anything.

That's what I meant when I said, " Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

In other words, just because we can't make something perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it better.


a reply to: Flatfish

So government meddling creates problems, everyone reacts, and then hand the entire thing over to the government. Of course!


a reply to: FyreByrd

So now defining the political philosophies that people are into is name calling?

I want that shirt! Will your town make it for me? This socialism is sounding good all the sudden. But who pays the shipping?!?!?
edit on 21-7-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

77% of Americans believe in angels.




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:53 PM
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Maybe those62% should get together and do something about it. Like- I don't know, maybe electing reps to do their bidding, perhaps even try to pass a Constitutional amendment to make it a right. In the meantime that 62% figure means absolutely diddly squat.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:00 PM
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The government shouldn't be in control of health coverage for anyone, that is a step towards a totalitarian system. a reply to: allsee4eye



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: namehere
i find it ironic how these people promoting socialized healthcare are handing everything over to corporations by supporting obamacare. imagine, socialists supporting corporate takeover of healthcare...


Look, we never supported that part of the ACA and you know it. We didn't support corporate healthcare back when Hillary tried to reform our system either.

Single-Payer and/or Public-Option representatives were denied a seat at the negotiating table. Remember?

The powerful private healthcare insurance lobby wasn't about to allow a not-for-profit threat to occupy a seat at that table.

We had to settle with the ACA in it's current form, hoping that one day, whether by will or necessity, it would be morphed into a truly universal, not-for-profit, single-payer, healthcare insurance system that covers everyone in need of care.

Now that private insurance companies are pulling out of states, we should offer a not-for-profit, public option in their place and see what happens.

I'm betting the for-profit insurance carriers are never invited back.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

Single payer as you envision it is unsustainable, for the same reason all central planning policies are unsustainable.

Central planning is one size fits all, and human beings are not one size fits all.

Plus, health care is not a right. It is a commodity.

True single payer means than the payer is the individual, there is no insurance middle man (or government) and the doctors compete for business through free market.

The only insurance should be catastrophic care, and the only government involvement should be for people who truly can not take care of themselves (mentally ill, severely physical handicap, orphans who cannot work, etc.)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: gimcrackery
The government shouldn't be in control of health coverage for anyone, that is a step towards a totalitarian system. a reply to: allsee4eye



Universal healthcare does not lead to a Fascist Dictatorship.

Though adopting America's ridiculous system of giving masses of cash to corrupt corporations sure as hell leads to an oligarchical corporate dictatorship.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Yes, and look how well that public education serves us ... so well, that a ton of people are breaking their necks to get away from it. Some major cities graduate what amounts to at least a 50% functionally illiterate senior class or worse.

I think maybe those who want to be "taken care of" like little babies ought to be put into their own pool and be taxed from what they have to form the monetary support for it.

The rest of us can work out deals with our doctors.

Oh, and it should be illegal for government to force doctors and health care providers to accept less than the going rate from the "pool" of kept people in order to force the rest of us to subsidize them like the government does now.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Any ideas on how to "rescue" health care before the masses stop paying for the insurance?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
I agree. Everyone already has public education. Basic health coverage for everyone should be no brainer, especially for the #1 super power. Basic coverage IMO should include free checkup and free emergency care, but no more than that.


The two parties will continue to battle over health-care policy for years to come but there’s no question which one holds the ideological high ground. The left’s victory on this subject is assured. The only mystery is how long it’ll take.



The latest AP-NORC poll found a familiar partisan split: more than 8 in 10 Democrats said health care is a federal responsibility, compared with 3 in 10 Republicans. Political independents were more closely divided, with 54 percent saying coverage is a federal responsibility and 44 percent saying it is not.


hotair.com...


Actually, the two parties WON'T continue to do battle for years... it's math... currently it's 20% of the entire federal budget... and costs are going up by 9% PER YEAR.

Anyone who knows how to calculate the power of compounding can see what that means. Soon... it will completely consume the governments capacity to pay the bills, and we will start having to decide whether to pay Medicare/Medicaid... or .gov pensions, food stamps, etc...

Anyone that thinks we will fix health care without REQUIRING health care providers to set prices, just failed 4th grade math.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.

On the other hand, most of us are terrible at keeping ourselves healthy. I'm not all that great at building roads or spaceships, either. So I'm willing to let the government take over the grunt work.


The government doesn't build roads. Contractors bid on jobs.


Government doesn't do heart surgery either, surgeons perform those jobs.

No one is saying that our government should be performing your healthcare procedures, only that they administer the program that pays those who do. Kinda like building those roads.


Is it not a total government takeover of the industry we're talking about here? Are there going to be bidding wars on each surgery to drive competition within the system?

If not that sounds like government employees to me. I wonder do they get federal worker benefits like everyone whom works at the airport?


originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: rickymouse

How do you cut 100% of the cronyism out of 100% of the system (the real problem)? There's a lot more involved in that machination then the man hours involved in fixing your booboo.


You quit shooting for unachievable goals, that's how.

You're never gonna eliminate 100% of anything.

That's what I meant when I said, " Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

In other words, just because we can't make something perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it better.


a reply to: Flatfish

So government meddling creates problems, everyone reacts, and then hand the entire thing over to the government. Of course!


Getting doctors to compete with each other over fees isn't always a good thing.

Are you familiar with what's called Usual, Customary & Reasonable healthcare charge guidelines? How they are developed or what they're used for?

They're used to establish fair rates for medical procedures in different geographic parts of the country.

Private healthcare insurance providers take those rates as a starting point and then demand discounts from physicians if that physician wants to be part of that insurance company's "Preferred Provider Network."

When a doctor decides he won't agree to the discounted rate schedule offered by your insurance company, he is no longer available to you as someone whose fees are covered.

That's how you lose your doctor of choice. Despite what you may think, Obama didn't do that.

It was happening long before he ever took office and I know this because I served on the board of trustees for a multi-employer benefit trusts funds with over $500 million in assets and providing healthcare benefits for over 3500 workers & retirees on a not-for-profit basis.

The same way that private healthcare insurance was totally f#*ked up before Obama and that's precisely why something had to be done on a national basis.

Government meddling didn't create the problem, it got us on the road to fixing it.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: dasman888

Like many other countries do.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
The government doesn't build roads. Contractors bid on jobs.

Didn't we have this same argument in forth grade?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Don't really know what to say to you other than, "I totally disagree with every word you wrote in your post."

Every industrialized nation on the globe, except for the United States, has managed to sustain some form of single-payer, universal healthcare system.

Many of them have been doing so since WWII and some even before that.

I don't see any of them being much broker than we are right now.

Did it every dawn on you that maybe one of the reasons we have the debt problems we have today is because we haven't gotten the biggest bank out of our healthcare bucks by adopting a not-for-profit, universal system and the savings one offers?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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100% think the feds need to stay out of my wallet and you don't have a right to the money I work my ass off to earn



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

stay out of my wallet its not your money to decide what to do with




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