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62 percent think federal government should be responsible for health for everyone

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:32 PM
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I am consistently amazed at how few people understand that healthcare and health insurance are not the same thing.

Government working to make healthcare a better thing isn't such a bad idea. Tricky in practice though. To me, governments getting involved in the insurance world is a whole other story, unless it's flood insurance which is understandable.

Most people also don't seem to have a functional understanding of insurance either... Funny how when those two things meet suddenly politics gets injected as well. Once that happens any attempt at a productive conversation is lost.

The decision to pay an insurance company, which includes their profit, should be a personal choice.

I'd be willing to bet the majority of that 62% has a skewed view of insurance that is based more on how they think it works than how it actually works.




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Yeah about 8 quid for a prescription and If you are poor enough you can get them for free.
I had a bad accident a few months back and has lots of tests and surgery cost me so far 50 quid in prescriptions god knows how much it would have cost me.
God bless the NHS twice saved my life now and I didn't need to worry about the bill.

It amazes me people sticking up for insurance led healthcare the fact is the USA has the most expensive and some of the worse healthcare in the western world.
edit on 21-7-2017 by testingtesting because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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...Everyone already has public education.
a reply to: allsee4eye

Perhaps some of us don't wish to see the health care system go the same way as the US education system. The founders were wise to leave these matters to state government. The smaller the organization the easier to root out the corruption which inevitably comes with large sums of money being moved about.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt



...Everyone already has public education.
a reply to: allsee4eye

Perhaps some of us don't wish to see the health care system go the same way as the US education system. The founders were wise to leave these matters to state government. The smaller the organization the easier to root out the corruption which inevitably comes with large sums of money being moved about.



It is where the school systems are.... Costs are out of control and quality is questionable.
edit on 21-7-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:44 PM
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The biggest problem anyone is going to run into is that the U.S. is full of very rich doctors who love to throw cash into the pockets of our elected officials. They're not going to cotton to the government telling them that they have to work for minimum wage so they can provide cheap medical care to every Tom, Dick and Harry through a government system.

However... it might not be a bad idea for the government to have a kind of "public service" requirement for any doctor who wants to practice in the country. Before you can privately practice as a new doctor, you have to put two years of governmental service in at minimal pay. A lot of countries do it with military service, after all. Same deal.

And you might even get something like that by the lobbyists, because it works to protect the existing doctor's lucrative jobs.
edit on 21-7-2017 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Do Dr.'s in other countries work for min wage?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: Noncents
I am consistently amazed at how few people understand that healthcare and health insurance are not the same thing.



Bernie Sanders is most recently responsible for that. I don't think I ever heard him utter the word "insurance" during the campaign. It was always, 100%, consistently "healthcare" from his lips.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Blue Shift
Do Dr.'s in other countries work for min wage?

No, but that doesn't stop us from doing it that way. You know, it wasn't too long ago that even in this country being a doctor was not just a license to print money.

We can pay them what we pay officers in the military.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Blue Shift
Do Dr.'s in other countries work for min wage?

No, but that doesn't stop us from doing it that way. You know, it wasn't too long ago that even in this country being a doctor was not just a license to print money.

We can pay them what we pay officers in the military.


The average physician at the Veteran's Administration has a $178,000 base pay. Interestingly, more private practice physicians are going to the V.A., because they don't have overhead, like malpractice insurance, office, employees, etc..



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: Flatfish

Back in the 1990s when I lived in Britain there used to be free medicines for the poor. Not anymore because Britain got poorer.


Britain's health care system is a mess.
A nurses perspective:

So much seems to be going on at the moment in the NHS that it is hard to focus on just one issue. Many hospitals are on 'black alert' with sick patients being treated on trollies in corridors.

This has been reported anecdotally, in the national press and all over social media. How can the government not take note of this and not respond? It is a sad day when our hard work is not acknowledged, even in the most difficult times, and that politicians feel it is unnecessary to comment or try to make a difference.

Although the Red Cross have a long standing commitment to helping out with social care, they have reported the strain on social care as unprecedented. All of these problems will be exacerbated by falling numbers of student nurses. With the removal of bursaries, there is already evidence that recruitment is down around the UK.

The government thinks that the student numbers will increase, but placement capacity will not. It would seem that some disciplines are more likely to be affected than others eg learning disability and mental health nursing. It is not just about hospitals, as GPs are in the firing line too. They have been advised that if they do not provide a 7-day service, funding will be withdrawn. It is common knowledge that general practice is struggling with increased numbers of older patients, more complex patients and earlier discharges. Added to this is the decreasing number of supportive staff such as practice nurses, many of whom are reaching retirement age. Many GPs are forming confederations to help cover the hours – but let us not forget that primary/first contact care is available 24/7 with the provision of urgent care centres, the 111 triage service, GP out-of-hours visits and in A&E. So why the jibe at GPs?

The BMA reports that they are scapegoats as the NHS is in desperate need of funding in all areas. According to the nursing press, unpublished Sustainability and Transformation Plans (STPs) suggest axing thousands of nurse jobs. How those of us who are left will manage, I do not know. Their nickname ‘Slash, Trash and Pillage’ seems to be sticking – and in the light of the suggested changes I suspect it will stick.6 Rather a gloomy start to 2017, and unless you have a crystal ball handy, it is difficult to see where this will all end. Look after your own health and do not shrink from standing up for nurses and our precious NHS.


www.independentnurse.co.uk...



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.



For starters, no one is proposing that government be 100% in charge of our health and there are plenty of areas where socialized programs administered by government do an excellent job.

Every police dept across America is a social program administered by govt.. We still have private investigators but basic law enforcement is performed on a social basis.

Every fire dept across America is a social program administered by govt. or they're volunteer in nature.

Every public school system across America is a social program administered by govt..

Every interstate highway was built on a social basis. Most bridges, sewers, lakes & reservoirs, electric grid, etc., etc., etc..

Hell, we even went to the moon via a government administered, social space program called NASA.

They may not be perfect programs, but they sure as hell got us where we are.

Don't let perfect become the enemy of good.

At least when it's a government agency administering the program, we know that their primary motive isn't profit driven and we have a vote and/or voice with respect to who fills that government post and what their personal policy preferences are.

With private, for-profit, healthcare insurance providers we have absolutely no voice within the company or program, we know without a doubt that corporate mentality insures their every move is profit driven and we know that there profits are derived from denying claims.

I think I'd rather go with the one that replaces profit margins with best medical outcomes as their primary goal and one where I actually have a voice in the way they're administered.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:04 PM
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the Federal Govt. should not be in charge --- all they should do is keep drug prices reasonable and a few other health responsibilities spelled out and administered by the State Prosecuters


businesses or companies/corporations that hire people at below market wages have used the 'health policies' as both an attractor for needed labor and got Lobbyists to rig wages for the big Mega corps with the 'perks' like extra & extended Dental & other perks for the Elites in the upper levels... the Fed Govt and businesses were playing footsie with health policies/coverage for the biggest slice-of-the-pie, to control wage earners & common taxpayers ever since after WW2...[the freedom chanting sheeple were in invisible cages, & did not realize their situation)


The Fed and the fascist oriented corps. were fashioning an Arm's length form of Communism ...(wage & price controls) after WW2 also


Eisenhower was keen to the subtilies, he knew subversion... that's the reason He delivered that 14 minute warning speech to the American Populace when retiring from office....(the MIC military-industrial/intelligence complex)
edit on st31150067491621082017 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



 



Oh, the employee health insurance policy borne by Corporations is one thing

the healthcare issue should be managed by DHHS & FDA to provide triage & trauma care for citizens (not the illegal Aliens that got let in illegally by potus #44) and Religious & non-profit orgs, NGOs to augment the poor people that fall-thru-the-cracks...hospitals by force of their Certification-Accreditation would be reimbursed at the Medicare-Medicaid rates for the unfortunates without policies... but NOT for the freeloaders, they will perform community services


just a scratch-&-sniff example of how the mess could be simplified
edit on st31150067582521232017 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.

On the other hand, most of us are terrible at keeping ourselves healthy. I'm not all that great at building roads or spaceships, either. So I'm willing to let the government take over the grunt work.


The government doesn't build roads. Contractors bid on jobs.
edit on 21-7-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

The NHS could be fixed however if there was the political will.

Take that £5 Billion that Trident is costing us a year and you could pretty much fix the NHS overnight.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

If other countries are getting the medical job done better and more affordable, I would think that there is something to learn.

Where you call it socialism or poke dots. If they are doing it better and cheaper, swallow the US pride stuff and learn and apply to our system.


If all of those places had our government, then their healthcare would be the ultimate disaster is my point.

I suppose if all 50 states enacted it, and it was done on the state level no Fed.gov involved really, then in most places it wouldn't necessarily be a complete total disaster as should be expected from "our" Fed.gov, and there might even be a handful of states out of 50 that would manage something half way decent, but the one thing you can bet your life on is handing you health 100% to the Fed.gov is some kind of suicide.
edit on 21-7-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:12 PM
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We should have socialized medicine, not for profit medicine. There is no way our government should be involved in healthcare unless it is for stuff like medicare and medicaid where strict regulations as to what will be paid for and how much is to be paid is enforced.

I have known quite a few doctors over my lifetime and the majority of the ones I know would rather be paid a pretty decent salary from the government and not have to worry about all the insurances and liability. I talked to two I know and they said they would be happy getting a hundred grand a year and not having to send people for tests they do not need.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

How do you cut 100% of the cronyism out of 100% of the system (the real problem)? There's a lot more involved in that machination then the man hours involved in fixing your booboo.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Who here can cite a solid example of the government ever doing anything right (ANYTHING besides executing military attacks) to use as the benchmark in this argument that the Federal Government should be 100% in charge of our health.

On the other hand, most of us are terrible at keeping ourselves healthy. I'm not all that great at building roads or spaceships, either. So I'm willing to let the government take over the grunt work.


The government doesn't build roads. Contractors bid on jobs.


Government doesn't do heart surgery either, surgeons perform those jobs.

No one is saying that our government should be performing your healthcare procedures, only that they administer the program that pays those who do.

Kinda like building those roads.
edit on 21-7-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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If you look at the chart on this page www.latimes.com... , you'll see that 40% of Americans already get their "healthcare" from government. Essentially, "single payer" for 40% of Americans.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:36 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: rickymouse

How do you cut 100% of the cronyism out of 100% of the system (the real problem)? There's a lot more involved in that machination then the man hours involved in fixing your booboo.


You quit shooting for unachievable goals, that's how.

You're never gonna eliminate 100% of anything.

That's what I meant when I said, " Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

In other words, just because we can't make something perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it better.



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