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The Fermi Paradox - What It Is and Categories

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posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
Just to put things into perspective, we represent about 0.00000000000001% of the known universe.



I wonder what "other" spectators think about that number.




posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:00 AM
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originally posted by: Cocchino
a reply to: schuyler

Having more than 95% of the genetic heritage in common with monkeys is unimportant, as having thousands of words available, words are the same but different combinations can create very different stories.

More important is to try to think about the number of chromosomes, science for decades has no credit that the human being had a number of chromosomes other than 48 ....

But from 1923 to 1955 when the introduction of colchicine and The best microscopes found the mistake, all were convinced that it was the magical number of human chromosomes; And that it could not be otherwise.

Moreover, if all of our closest cousins ​​had 48 chromosomes, it was reasonable to believe that the common ancestor of all apes had 48 chromosomes. How could you go from 48 to 46 chromosomes? Hybrids are almost always sterile just because the number of chromosomes is wrong: they can not properly separate the chromosomes during egg and sperm formation, and when they meet with sperm or healthy eggs these often do not melt, or Zygotes die immediately afterwards.

This process can only take place by close observation by someone who drives natural selection.


Asked this question numerous times myself...with zero education...only to be scoffed at and told i'm insane yet they love me.

So if they have no clue why bother asking ME questions...especially LATELY.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: which means we'll have to change our understanding of evolution of life since most scientist believe that while Mars was a "habitable" planet billions of years ago, it lost it's atmosphere too soon for anything advanced enough to evolve there. eriktheawful

High speculation here but.. its so interesting -.-

Maybe the "mars dinos" died sooner than ours and the mammalian kind had more time to develope? We dont know.. ^^
We assume that mars inner core isnt liquid any more and cant produce a magnetic field. Does we know y it cooled down and became so deadly?
When there was a civilisation billions of years ago its remains would be far deep under the ground and not on the surface..

So we have to send some archaeologists to mars

Just think at the fossils that they could find or maybe bones...

What a daydream.. ^^
edit on 22-7-2017 by Vratyas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

Clearly this human form is the best for answering all the questions.

And yet they blind the best of us in stark fear that we WILL find the answers...while watching us on TV.

When can THEY stop watching so any of us could actually answer...without an ever increasing crescendo of meaningless taunts and questions of their own?

They risk ultimate disaster across the Universe for blinding us all...then posing high-minded questions.

Maybe all their viewscreens need a good smashing.




posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: ImmortalLegend527
a reply to: eriktheawful

Its really hard being me the keeper of knowledge on this earth.I look at this thread and all I can do is shake my head and count how many different programs you just wrote.

The key to knowledge and the truth is all about choosing one program, to many programs will confuse and clutter the main frame and create a virus,of unwanted questions and in some cases a new program that had nothing to do with the alpha.

Greatest Secret Ever Told was copy written by IML 527.7-21-3017.

You mortals are the aliens.

Here's a new program I would like for you to down load...you have one choice.
Is this the first planet or the last?

The only way that your upload will down load successful y is if you delete all info on all aliens from your main frame.



LOL first laugh i have had in at least 24 lightyears.

BRILLIANT POST SIR.

77,000,000,000 stars just for you.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:16 AM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: eriktheawful

I can't help but ask myself, how could we even know what intelligence from another world would be like? The size of an ant or the size of a house, arms like an octopus or crawling on the ground with it's dozens of legs, who's to say or know.

I think we tend to try and humanize possible aliens far too much. The reasons they would not be apparent to us or even interested in us are legion.

It's a bit conceited to think they would be all that interested in us to begin with.

I share the concern that we may not want to interact with aliens who may well only be interested in our resources and moving us out of the way.



Ego is the way to truth my friend...stop believing the tired lies.

ALL OF THEM ARE ONLY interested in us...and frankly it's boring me to death.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
Just to put things into perspective, we represent about 0.00000000000001% of the known universe.


True. And the human species has existed about for 0.0015% of the total age of the universe, and human civilization has existed about for 0.0004% of the total age of the universe.

That is to say, over 99.9% of the history of the universe (so far) happened before humans came along. There might have been many civilizations that came and went -- and had their stars bloat/nova/supernova and wide away any signs that they ever existed in the first place.



And yet nothing matters at all.

Except for now or so i am told.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:21 AM
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originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Vratyas

To be honest, the first GRBs (Gamma Ray Bursts) detected were in the 1960s via satellites that were used to detect nuclear detonations in space.

The first of these detected, the US thought the Soviets were the cause of them. But analysis revealed that they were not originating on or near Earth.

In fact, as analysis went on, it was shown that these were MASSIVE bursts of gamma ray radiation from very far away.

One idea played around with (not officially of course) was some sort of advanced space weapon being used (think some far of space battle where a fleet of ships or a world is destroyed).

Turns out the sources of GRBs are literally BILLIONS of light years away. For example one was over 7.5 billion ly away.

That means it happened when the universe was around 6.5 billion years old.

And the problem with that is: Universe Too Young For Life.

That's another "solution" to the Fermi Paradox, but how it applies for now is a bit different than how I'm applying it for GRBs.

When the universe was only 6.5 billion years old, most of the stars were Population 1 stars......made up almost of nothing but hydrogen, with no metals.

Remember: the heavier elements we know of were created in the forges of super novas.

Go back in time far enough and you'll have a very hard time finding "rocky" planets, or planets with enough metal in them to amount to very much of anything.

Goodbye trying to develop an advance tool using society without metals.



Speaking of metals i lost my keys in some tall grass i think...can anyone just give them back to me or i gotta do it myself...and continue the charades.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:25 AM
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4) They Are Here and Do Exist: This is where most of the conspiracy theorist will thrive, that they are here, meddling with us humans, but we're too stupid to notice, or it's been hidden too well from us.

(My own emphasis)

The color spectrum we see with our eyes is a very narrow slice of the known electromagnetic spectrum.

It is open ended, just like any discussion about what lies beyond our narrow senses. Vegetables exist, they live, grow and reproduce, but we can't 'talk to them' , either.

I don't mean to say we are as dumb as vegetables just that they don't have the senses to perceive us. From their perspective 'gardeners' , can't exist. They have never seen one, will never see one, it is useless to discuss it from their perspective or try to improve their 'sensing' power, because they are vegetables.

We can't see other spectrums because our senses are limited as well. Considering the narrow slice of visible color we can see, very limited.

This doesn't prove anything, nor does sitting in a dark room with our eyes closed.





edit on 22-7-2017 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Czulkang
I think that there is a hyper agressive speciex out there that stamps out all life before they can pose a threat to them, because of a near E.L.E in their past that molded their psyche in a hyper aggressive form.
There thats my 2 cents.

Possible. The "Berserker" Scenario isn't all that ridiculous. Two spacefaring civilizations have a war and one of them builds a super-destructive, self-replicating Von Neumann Machine to go over and wipe the other guys out. And it gets out of control. And now it's spreading like a virus through the universe, slowly finding life and then sterilizing it.

Machines taking over the universe is a very plausible scenario. And they just haven't found us yet.

After that, if we really are "living" in a simulation, maybe they were just never programmed in.


Another fine post..these machines have sterilized too much...finally realizing a critical memory dump occurs.

And now they search for answers that no longer exist??



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: icewater
a reply to: eriktheawful
Allow me to play devils advocate. My theory is that the laws of probability stack up against life existing elsewhere in the universe. To understand this it would be helpful to understand how probability works. How the math works. Here is a minor example: What is the probability that I will catch a fish tomorrow when I go fishing? I usually do so let's say the probability is 70% or .7 . But it is not as simple as that. There are other factors. What if I oversleep and miss the best feeding time so assume there is a 80% chance I wake on time. Weather, availability of bait, will my boat start in the morning? How long can I stay? Etc. So, lets say there is a 70% (.7) chance the weather will be good. Let's say there is a 20% chance the bait shop will be out of the minnows I favor for bait (so that means there is a 80% (.8) chance I will have the appropriate bait. And there is a 10% chance my boat will not start in the morning (again that means a 90% chance it will so .9 is calculated in. And then the pure chance the fish are biting....50% (or .5). Now given these are the only factors involved with fish catching (they aren't, there are many many more but for simplicity sake assume these are the only factors. The calculation looks like this: .8 x .7 x .8 x .9 x.5 = .2016 probability at this moment I will be successful fishing tomorrow. Of course the calculation changes as each event happens or doesn't. If the bait availability drops to 0 then the end probability drops to 0 as well. If I get to the bait shop and the minnows are there the calculation changes to .8 x .7 x 1.0 x .9 x.5 =.252 .

The point is when you are calculating a probability that depends on a series of events happening it is a simple multiplication. It gets more complicated when an event is not in series but can happen in parallel. It still affects the outcome but I am trying to keep this simple to make my point.

Now, consider all that had to happen for Planet Earth to have life introduced; for life, from the first single cell animal, to reproduce; for a food chain to develop; for the proper atmospheric conditions to magically happen (realize that during the dinosaur periods the atmosphere oxygen content was much higher than the 21% it is now. That is one reason dinosaurs grew to be so large) There are thousands of factors that had to be right, from the Moon causing the tides, to the amount of water asteroids brought to our planet, to every little bug that has ever lived causing decay of plant life which enriches the soil and allows for new growth. Then consider gravity, the mass of the Sun, radiation from the sun, how the other planets in our system affect us, the electro - magnetic shield that protects us from all the bad radiation not just from the sun but from other systems. There are so many factors that I do not even know about but that happened even though the probability of them happening was .000000001 or less. Even more that happen everyday now that are essential for life to continue to prosper. All of them have many zeros to the right of the decimal. All of these are essential. All MUST have happened or must happen in order to contribute the the miracle of life on our planet. From tides to weather to chemistry to the food chain starting with the tiniest plankton in the oceans. And on and on.

The end probability is incalculable. But it is infinitesimal. It is a freaking miracle that it happened once in the universe but to assume it has happened again and again in other places in the Universe...well, that is a lot to consider. I realize the Universe is a big place but I truly believe that the laws of probability just do not support life anywhere else.



Finally total brilliance in a thread topic..this one.

Luckily someone saved critical elements of each sterilization and created a sandbox and dumped them all in resulting in this confused place..only then they decided to immerse too many programs all at once and became part of the problem.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: eriktheawful
Look at you guys!

THIS is the ATS I remember!

Woo Hoo!

Lots of opinions, not all of them agreeing, but each of you THINKING.....HYPOTHESIZING.......and even if you disagree......you're doing it in a very civil way!

THIS is what brought me to ATS!

Thank you guys. Nice to see this.

I best get cracking on that next thread then.


Yes you had better, the audience seems to believe we are on to something.

Too bad they made it impossible for the best of us to feel comfortable in answering...a TRUE paradox.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: eldemie
a reply to: eriktheawful

I'll keep an eye on this, main reason why I started ATS


Well done sir...creating a scenario that tries to solve questions is certainly far from any paradox.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

Jeopardy: ATS Edition!

Question: How much batsh#t can you fit into a post?

Answer: ParasuvO.

Correct! We would have also accepted ImmortalLegend527.

Seriously, dude, stop crapping the thread up.
edit on 22-7-2017 by WHWIV because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: cyberjedi

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: eriktheawful

After some thinking, i came to this conclusion:

-There is intelligent life capable of interstellar travel in the Milky Way (at least 20-50 races)

-Some of this life has and does visit Earth

-While many focus on Earth bound governments hiding their presence, its clear to me that the visitors are masking their own presence and are careful to disclose themselves fully.


With this in mind, i think what we have is a galactic organization involving a number of interstellar races that determine the "readiness" of a planet's life for disclosure...


You are actually very close!

Indeed advanced races are capable of interstellar travel, however, they have removed the issue of having to 'travel', they simply relocate, they teleport. They can stop existing at one spot, and start existing at another as they please.

Also there IS an organizaion of alien species, and they DO measure the readiness of a plantet's community for disclosure!

Multiple alien races are observing Earth, and they are eagerly waiting for the time to arrive where they can present themselves officially.


People underestimate their intelligence, the 'advanced' races are VERY intelligent. Hollywood should also stop putting aliens on display as warmongerers, 99% of the universe is at peace. War is rare. Why would someone in their right mind kill one their own, truly it is not hard to understand, and alot of aliens do understand this and live in harmony, as could we one day.



They apparently forget how things work...do we really care what they think about us?

This is a question they face now...emotionless beings trying to recreate that which was...YAWN.

Stifling and lying is the game they played...perhaps they went just a tad too far...........



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr

4) They Are Here and Do Exist: This is where most of the conspiracy theorist will thrive, that they are here, meddling with us humans, but we're too stupid to notice, or it's been hidden too well from us.

(My own emphasis)

The color spectrum we see with our eyes is a very narrow slice of the known electromagnetic spectrum.



True, but anything made of solid matter interacts with the visible light spectrum.

Of course, if these aliens are made of something other than normal matter, then that's different.



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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Dont forget: we are stardust, we are the universe that thinks about itself!

I really hope that they "others" will show themselfs in our lifespan.
Imagine the the social life and cultures they could have.. what do they know about science or technology? We could learn so much..

Is a science based galactic federation like star trek possible?

I mean to be clear: survival of an intelligent life needs to be peaceful..
Are we? We are able to destroy our own planet with a few buttons to push.. so.. nope..

Then y should they communicate with us (the entire species)?

Most of our cultures are still in the "angry child phase" and they dont even think about to change it..



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Vratyas

It's quite possible that life thrives all over our galaxy and the universe.

However, that alien life might have the odds stacked against it in many ways:

Metal poor planet, hardly any to speak of, much less mine, smelt, and build with.

A water world with intelligent creatures on it like our whales and dolphins.....who will never be able to harness fire, so they can make tools and build in ways that we can here. Seriously doubt they'll get a radio signal out, or anything into orbit.

Gigantic blimp like creatures that evolved in the upper cloud deck of a Jupiter like gas giant......pretty cool idea (in fact, when I was a kid back in the 1970s, I saw a painting once showing this)......they too will have issues building high technology.

Does it have to be an exact recipe of us? Well:

Again, we and all life on Earth are made up of the 4 most common elements found in the universe. Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen. Stands to reason that other life out there would also more commonly be made up of the same things. I mean, we might find something that is made out of other elements, but the math says that life made out of CHON will be more common than anything else.

Air born bacterial living in a think layer in the atmosphere of Venus will most likely not develop communications satellites and put them in orbit about the planet.

So basically: yah. More than likely any intelligent life out their that becomes advanced enough to create technology that we can detect, or surpass us to where they are doing interstellar or even intergalactic travel will need to form on:

A rocky, metal rich world, that orbits a stable, long lived star (there are more of these than others), and must have a mostly circular orbit that keeps it within that star's green zone (if the planet's orbit is to eliptical where it spends half it's time outside of the green zone, that's not going to be good, you'll either have boiling oceans or oceans that are frozen solid....along with parts of the atmosphere if it goes out too far).
It needs to be a big enough planet. Too small, and it's core cools down too soon....which could disrupt or make it's magnetic field that protects it from it's sun's radiation and cosmic radiation.

It must be also big enough to retain it's atmosphere. Be a bad thing to loose it.

But then there is the evolutionary picture to consider too: motivation for the life to develop advance intelligence.

Again, yes, we can look at the Earth. How long were dinosaurs around for? They were here for almost 200 million years.

200 million years.....and in all that time, they didn't end up becoming a advanced tool using race. None of them.

But look at the clever primates......7 million years ago. Then 3 million years ago a group of them started to change and tahdah! Here we are.....humans. Putting satellites into orbit, sending space craft to other worlds, right down to using computers and mobile devices where we can discuss things on the internet.

So what does that mean?

Well, it could possibly mean that while yes, there are millions of planets in our galaxy alone that has life all over those planets......they just might be like the dinosaurs. Thriving.........but not tool using or advanced like we are. It could mean, that intelligence that advances to tool using is a much rarer thing. That it only happens if the right circumstances present themselves, and those circumstances might be very rare.

Problem is: we just don't know yet.

For all I know, tomorrow Curiosity on Mars is going to fall into a cavern, and still be working long enough to send back images of ancient martian statues of a long forgotten civilization.......which means we'll have to change our understanding of evolution of life since most scientist believe that while Mars was a "habitable" planet billions of years ago, it lost it's atmosphere too soon for anything advanced enough to evolve there.

But I'll also be sitting here thinking "Holy crap! We found evidence of an advanced life form outside of Earth! Woo Hoo!" and be drooling at the mouth waiting for more information.

But, alas, in the mean time, we have to deal with what we know, and can only speculate.

Personally i think diaclosure would be great..but they either refuse or cannot.

This planet is very nice and i would rather stay here most of the time..or so i imagine.


Problem is...most want to leave and go elsewhere when perhaps this place needs full development and perfection...without some dam fool birds speculating as to the outcomes.

When will they leave us alone?

I know, I know, they cannot but wish US to do that which WE cannot.




posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:56 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 22 2017 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: Vratyas

Well, perhaps we can take the child analogy to it's natural conclusion then.

We don't shun children, we nurture them. They display a negative trait and we try to gently correct them and help them to learn what we feel is the correct way to behave. If we're going to go that route, then perhaps an older civilization's role is that of a parent to a child. We may teach, nurture, and in some cases punish. Anyhow I think this may lie outside the purview of this discussion.



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