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Stop Making this About Clinton.

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: bender151

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Stop Making this About Clinton.



This is something that I feel has to be said.

Trump is the most polarising politician in living memory, most of us thought that it cold never have gotten worse than George. W. Bush but the people of America have proven the rest of us wrong by electing the embodiment of the elite, Donald. J. Trump to the highest office.

Now with this I must confess comes invigorating political discussion and debate that is slowly becoming a guilty pleasure of mine. As much as I may disagree with Trump and his supporters, I really do find myself enjoying the thrill of the debate. That said however there is something that I find tremendously annoying.

Its these simple words.

“What about Clinton”

They come about in some variation in just about every debate had about Trump and his antics. During the election cycle leading up to election of last year the comparison between the two political figures was fair and just. There was a choice (a word I use loosely) to be had, Trump or Clinton, that is what the debate was essentially about. However that debate has now passed, the debate of Trump vs Clinton is over, Trump won it.

As such then it is becoming very annoying when in the course of debate the issue of Clinton is brought up. The Clintons are not in the oval office, Trump is, it is Trump how now faces the scrutiny that comes with sitting at that table, not the Clintons.

Trump is not infallible, he is human, he has and he will make mistakes, he will make misjudgements and we all know that he has a almost unique propensity to make frankly stupid comments. Yet the response to all of his flaws from his supporters is “ahhh but what about Clintons?”, “What about the Clintons links to Russia?”, “What about Clintons emails?”, “would you rather have Clinton?” And so it goes on and on….. what about Clinton?

The truth is that it Clinton no longer matters, the entire political dynasty of the Clintons is now over. Trump destroyed them. Yet the only ones strangely who keep the Clintons relevant and current are actually Trump supporters who are still obsessed with comparing them to Trump.

Trumps actions and the actions of the Clintons are two separate issues, Trumps collusion with the Russians for example is a separate issue from Hilary’s piss poor handling of her emails. It detracts from the debate, trying to turn a debate about Trump into a debate about Clinton as this point is just deflection. On every debate about Trumps dealings with the Russians I can almost guarantee that there are a few who will utter the name “Clinton” in a attempt to turn the debate away from Trump and onto her and her husband.

If you truly support Trump and want to fight his corner then that is fine, but when you are doing this by turning everything into Clinton issue you are not actually doing anything to defend Trump only taking attention away from him for a fleeting moment. There are some very serious questions and debates to be had about Trumps dealings with the Russians, starting to ask off-topic questions of the Clintons during these debates only shows weakness in your arguments. It demonstrates that your on the ropes so you defect the blows by trying to make the issue Clinton.

There is one final annoyance in all of this.

Being anti-trump does not make one pro-Hilary, it does not even make someone a Democrat supporter or a leftist liberal.

I guess the whole point I am trying to make is that Trump supporters need to actually start engaging in the debates about Trump and stop distracting by trying to turn everything into a discussion about Clinton or left vs right and dismissing anything they don't like as fake news.

The issue is Trump, not Clinton


Seems like you miss the point entirely. Clinton only matters because she's a reflection of liberal values. Did liberals care about any number of the great number of things Hillary did that are illegal? No. Do liberals get upset that Trump is simply accused of doing a miniscule fraction of what she's proven to have done? Yes. She matters because it points out liberal hypocrisy. I'm not sure how a reasonable mind would fail to understand that.

So we should stop discussing Trump's shortcomings and instead focus on Hillary, who, as you should know by now, lost and isn't a president?




No, you should address Trump's short comings in a logical, measured and hysteria free way - at least if you want to engage in a serious discussion.

Sure. That still won't change the right's hysteria of deflecting to Hillary instead of having a logical, measured and hysteria free way.



edit on 7/21/2017 by Deaf Alien because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: bender151

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Stop Making this About Clinton.



This is something that I feel has to be said.

Trump is the most polarising politician in living memory, most of us thought that it cold never have gotten worse than George. W. Bush but the people of America have proven the rest of us wrong by electing the embodiment of the elite, Donald. J. Trump to the highest office.

Now with this I must confess comes invigorating political discussion and debate that is slowly becoming a guilty pleasure of mine. As much as I may disagree with Trump and his supporters, I really do find myself enjoying the thrill of the debate. That said however there is something that I find tremendously annoying.

Its these simple words.

“What about Clinton”

They come about in some variation in just about every debate had about Trump and his antics. During the election cycle leading up to election of last year the comparison between the two political figures was fair and just. There was a choice (a word I use loosely) to be had, Trump or Clinton, that is what the debate was essentially about. However that debate has now passed, the debate of Trump vs Clinton is over, Trump won it.

As such then it is becoming very annoying when in the course of debate the issue of Clinton is brought up. The Clintons are not in the oval office, Trump is, it is Trump how now faces the scrutiny that comes with sitting at that table, not the Clintons.

Trump is not infallible, he is human, he has and he will make mistakes, he will make misjudgements and we all know that he has a almost unique propensity to make frankly stupid comments. Yet the response to all of his flaws from his supporters is “ahhh but what about Clintons?”, “What about the Clintons links to Russia?”, “What about Clintons emails?”, “would you rather have Clinton?” And so it goes on and on….. what about Clinton?

The truth is that it Clinton no longer matters, the entire political dynasty of the Clintons is now over. Trump destroyed them. Yet the only ones strangely who keep the Clintons relevant and current are actually Trump supporters who are still obsessed with comparing them to Trump.

Trumps actions and the actions of the Clintons are two separate issues, Trumps collusion with the Russians for example is a separate issue from Hilary’s piss poor handling of her emails. It detracts from the debate, trying to turn a debate about Trump into a debate about Clinton as this point is just deflection. On every debate about Trumps dealings with the Russians I can almost guarantee that there are a few who will utter the name “Clinton” in a attempt to turn the debate away from Trump and onto her and her husband.

If you truly support Trump and want to fight his corner then that is fine, but when you are doing this by turning everything into Clinton issue you are not actually doing anything to defend Trump only taking attention away from him for a fleeting moment. There are some very serious questions and debates to be had about Trumps dealings with the Russians, starting to ask off-topic questions of the Clintons during these debates only shows weakness in your arguments. It demonstrates that your on the ropes so you defect the blows by trying to make the issue Clinton.

There is one final annoyance in all of this.

Being anti-trump does not make one pro-Hilary, it does not even make someone a Democrat supporter or a leftist liberal.

I guess the whole point I am trying to make is that Trump supporters need to actually start engaging in the debates about Trump and stop distracting by trying to turn everything into a discussion about Clinton or left vs right and dismissing anything they don't like as fake news.

The issue is Trump, not Clinton


Seems like you miss the point entirely. Clinton only matters because she's a reflection of liberal values. Did liberals care about any number of the great number of things Hillary did that are illegal? No. Do liberals get upset that Trump is simply accused of doing a miniscule fraction of what she's proven to have done? Yes. She matters because it points out liberal hypocrisy. I'm not sure how a reasonable mind would fail to understand that.

So we should stop discussing Trump's shortcomings and instead focus on Hillary, who, as you should know by now, lost and isn't a president?




No, you should address Trump's short comings in a logical, measured and hysteria free way - at least if you want to engage in a serious discussion.

Sure. That still won't change the right's hysteria of deflecting to Hillary instead of having a logical, measured and hysteria free way.




Disagree. When the debate moves away from media hysteria and subsequent parroting, then I believe you will find some common ground. Whilst the insistence on pushing propaganda and unsupported wild claims remain, then the response will be to highlight the hypocrisy and of course lack of any evidence to even support those wild claims. i.e. you will get nowhere.
edit on 21/7/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Hypocrisy goes in both sides. I agree that we should move away from media hysteria. But I've seen good and serious threads get trashed with so much deflections and hysteria over Hillary.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: UKTruth

Hypocrisy goes in both sides. I agree that we should move away from media hysteria. But I've seen good and serious threads get trashed with so much deflections and hysteria over Hillary.


I've not seen any good and serious threads about Trump in the political forums for a long time. Any thread that usually has a chance is usually derailed first by some random conclusion about Trump in the most extreme way a poster seems to be able to muster. Ironically the OP is often one of the first to wade in with the type of nonsense that quickly derails a thread.

Case in point:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 21/7/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: underpass61



Well geez, I was under the impression that the OP was referring to Trump supporters in general, not just me in particular. My response to your comment was directed at liberals in general, not only you, since I assumed that you were doing the same.


I think the OP was directed at those that like to use Hillary as a deflection from the Trump issues.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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I do not think it is about Hillary but the easiest way to stray or prevent a conversation is to not allow comparison. Like a scientific method. We do that on here. We observe. We question. We hypothesize. Our post is the test. Our responses our conclusion.

Trump and his administration, not just him, are not being given a chance to move forward. I am so embarrassed for my government than anything Trump has done. Is he perfect, no, but at least in comparing him to recent POTUS's he is not doing bad. He just has no help. He is like the weird kid in school that everyone talks to alone because he has cool things but will not go along in the masses. The government has been exposed not just to those who like conspiracy but to all.

I am tired of the negativity from all sides. Drudge...HuffPo...even Brietbart...they are all bull#.

The average person wants cheaper healthcare, less taxes and a solid infrastructure for our country. Simple things. I think in 2018 and 2020 there is going to be even more cleaning house and maybe it is time for all of those who have used the US for their needs for decades and centuries to move on. Elon Musk at the top of the list. He is a government welfare king.
edit on 07pm31pmf0000002017-07-21T17:14:08-05:000508 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I can see you aren't serious. Pizza gate was distraction. The better story related to it was Podestas real interest in expensive art. Then there's the organ harvesting story I'm sure you don't know about. Ever heard of SilkWay Air? How about Amalgamated bank or BCCI? And don't get me started on the Clinton Global Initiative.

Do your homework. There's a lot to investigate and you choose to throw out the baby with the bathwater. After all, this is a conspiracy site!



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Of course the double standard exists. That goes for all sorts of people, not just liberals. In fact, the same could be said about radical Righties trying to smear Obama/Clinton with innuendo and conclusions based on zero evidence.

An act you have taken part in. Hence, the comment about hypocrites pointing fingers at hypocrites.

If we were in a thread about Hillary's wrongdoings, you would be talking about her wrongdoings. You would not be talking about the hypocrisy of those such as yourself.

But if we were in a thread about Trump's wrongdoings, you'd rather discuss the hypocrisy of others instead of his potential wrongdoings. As you are doing here.

It appears you are exactly that which you claim to hate.

Hypocrisy.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Of course the double standard exists. That goes for all sorts of people, not just liberals. In fact, the same could be said about radical Righties trying to smear Obama/Clinton with innuendo and conclusions based on zero evidence.

An act you have taken part in. Hence, the comment about hypocrites pointing fingers at hypocrites.

If we were in a thread about Hillary's wrongdoings, you would be talking about her wrongdoings. You would not be talking about the hypocrisy of those such as yourself.

But if we were in a thread about Trump's wrongdoings, you'd rather discuss the hypocrisy of others instead of his potential wrongdoings. As you are doing here.

It appears you are exactly that which you claim to hate.

Hypocrisy.


Yes, I would be talking about her wrong doings as opposed to writing a thread telling people to "stop making this about ...".



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Of course the double standard exists. That goes for all sorts of people, not just liberals. In fact, the same could be said about radical Righties trying to smear Obama/Clinton with innuendo and conclusions based on zero evidence.

An act you have taken part in. Hence, the comment about hypocrites pointing fingers at hypocrites.

If we were in a thread about Hillary's wrongdoings, you would be talking about her wrongdoings. You would not be talking about the hypocrisy of those such as yourself.

But if we were in a thread about Trump's wrongdoings, you'd rather discuss the hypocrisy of others instead of his potential wrongdoings. As you are doing here.

It appears you are exactly that which you claim to hate.

Hypocrisy.


Yes, I would be talking about her wrong doings as opposed to writing a thread telling people to "stop making this about ...".


...and you would have no concern about the hypocrisy of others. You only concern yourself with such things when it serves as a convenient deflection from talking about the wrongdoings of Trump.

Like I said, and apparently you do not deny, hypocrisy.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:39 PM
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originally posted by: TacSite18


Does not work that way. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, my friend. Never let the weed take root.

It is just that Trump is a thin-rooted plant, so he will be weeded out of the garden of freedom fairly quickly.


Seems Obama was immune I guess...

Why do you think he is going to fail? He is like the first President to actually work on his campaign promises. I guess no one told him that once he is in office they don't count anymore.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
OK then what about Maxine :>)


Just another Red Herring.

Red Herring

Def.: Distracting attention from an issue by introducing an irrelevant issue or one that is only superficially related to the one being discussed. The mechanism of this fallacy is similar to that of Straw Person. Both depend on creating something that has a deceptive resemblance to the genuine article. Also, like Straw Person, Red Herring does not depend on intentionally deceiving someone. More often than not people commit Red Herring because they don't know or can't keep their minds focused on the real issue.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth

Of course the double standard exists. That goes for all sorts of people, not just liberals. In fact, the same could be said about radical Righties trying to smear Obama/Clinton with innuendo and conclusions based on zero evidence.

An act you have taken part in. Hence, the comment about hypocrites pointing fingers at hypocrites.

If we were in a thread about Hillary's wrongdoings, you would be talking about her wrongdoings. You would not be talking about the hypocrisy of those such as yourself.

But if we were in a thread about Trump's wrongdoings, you'd rather discuss the hypocrisy of others instead of his potential wrongdoings. As you are doing here.

It appears you are exactly that which you claim to hate.

Hypocrisy.


Yes, I would be talking about her wrong doings as opposed to writing a thread telling people to "stop making this about ...".


...and you would have no concern about the hypocrisy of others. You only concern yourself with such things when it serves as a convenient deflection from talking about the wrongdoings of Trump.

Like I said, and apparently you do not deny, hypocrisy.


Lol, I'm not the one trying to tell everyone to stop making comparisons.

That would be the OP... and you.
edit on 21/7/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Ok so, just for some balance...Obama destroyed the Bush dynasty yet he and all of his and Hillary's minions blamed and pointed their fingers at him for years rather than taking responsibility for the economy, Iraq, Syria...lord the list is long...so I fail to see how your well written op is a relevant comparison.

Uh the economy recovered very well under Obama after exploding during George W. Bush's term. It took awhile, as such recoveries are apt to do, but things were certainly better by the end of Obama's term.

Did you forget that the Financial Crisis of 2007-2008 was before Obama?


Uhhh , I dont think anyone is talking about the economy,,,
I believe it is about the polarization of the US
Barack . is that you again ?

That poster literally talked about the economy.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Obama destroyed the Bush dynasty yet he and all of his and Hillary's minions blamed and pointed their fingers at him for years rather than taking responsibility for the economy

Perhaps read the posts you respond to more thoroughly?

What do you not get about the first half of that statement about Dems blaming Bush for everything ? That is a direct relevance to polarization of this country. In fact , some of the first examples .

Perhaps a better than selective reading comprehension on your part? A little knowledge of the time frame ?
Youre not from around here , er ya ?

What do you not get about economic criticisms being warranted?
What do you not get about the successful economic recovery meaning Obama took responsibility for the crisis?

Are you saying truth and action are polarizing?

Again this was about polarizing not economic. No where did I mention fault.
Careful , your ignorance is showing
Cover it up and keep it covered
No one wants to see that shiite
And with that
Game over , you never had any tokens to play , anyhow


Apparently I need to walk you through this, which is pretty sad. Here is the post I responded to:

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Ok so, just for some balance...Obama destroyed the Bush dynasty yet he and all of his and Hillary's minions blamed and pointed their fingers at him for years rather than taking responsibility for the economy, Iraq, Syria...lord the list is long...so I fail to see how your well written op is a relevant comparison.


BlueJacket here is claiming that Obama didn't do anything for the economy, Iraq, Syria, etc and just blamed Bush; the unstated point seems to be that this (blaming and not taking responsibility) fueled divisiveness.
I countered that the economy recovered under Obama's administration.

Step by step for you, since you need it:
Let E = blaming and not taking responsibility on the economy.
Let I = blaming and not taking responsibility on the Iraq.
Let S = blaming and not taking responsibility on the Syria.
Let D = divisiveness.

E ∧ I ∧ S → D

The argument constructed only holds logically true (not necessarily factually true) if E, I, and S are actually true.
My counter to this is that E is not true. Thus, the argument fails.

You however willingly accept that D is true regardless of whether E, I, and S hold true. You seem to see no value in logic, but instead only in emotional pleas.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: TacSite18


Does not work that way. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, my friend. Never let the weed take root.

It is just that Trump is a thin-rooted plant, so he will be weeded out of the garden of freedom fairly quickly.


Seems Obama was immune I guess...

Why do you think he is going to fail? He is like the first President to actually work on his campaign promises. I guess no one told him that once he is in office they don't count anymore.


I think eventually Trump Wii resign or be impeached. Is that Your definition of "fail" also?
Trump is congenitally crooked - he can't speak without lying, he lusts after money openly, he has no moral sense, and ethics are beyond his understanding. It is fortunate that he is also entering the realm of full-blown dementia, because senile old men like him are easy to catch in their criminal efforts.
That sum it up for you sparky?
Now move along.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth



Lol, I'm not the one trying to tell everyone to stop making comparisons.


True. You're the guy deflecting from Trump criticism.

Good job...hypocrite.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Greven

From someone living it ... the economy has not recovered. It has limped along.

I don't know about you, but I've done great - more than quadrupled my after-tax income from the time Obama took office to the time he left.
Besides, weren't people bragging about the Trump Rally not that long ago in the stock market?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: timequake



Uh the economy recovered very well under Obama after exploding during George W. Bush's term. It took awhile, as such recoveries are apt to do, but things were certainly better by the end of Obama's term.


If you knew anything about what happened--both the cause and any recovery-- you would know that the presidency had nothing to do with it.

Okay, so the president has nothing to do with the economy.
Guess we can't say Trump has done anything for the economy at all as of yet, right?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



Lol, I'm not the one trying to tell everyone to stop making comparisons.


True. You're the guy deflecting from Trump criticism.

Good job...hypocrite.


There is no Trump criticism - the thread is about posters comparing Trump actions to Clinton's.
You seem a little tired...when you have these little hissy fits it's a dead give away.

edit on 21/7/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 06:19 PM
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Simply put... without Hillary and her collusion with the corporate media using a "pied piper" strategy to get Donald J Trump the Repub primary.... Trump would have never survived a legit primary ... but then neither would have crooked Hillary Clinton and the dirty DNC!



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