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Stop Making this About Clinton.

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posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: TacSite18

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Greven

From someone living it ... the economy has not recovered. It has limped along.


From your point of view. I never had a problem even during the great recession. If fact, I moved my money into bonds and waited till the stocks bottomed out. Then got back in. Made a 30% net profit on my 401K, which is quite large at my age.

I will say this for Trump's stock market, it has been great for me. How about everyone else - how did your 401Ks do in the last 6 months?


The economy is not just the stock market. If you are saving for retirement, that money is more or less off limits.

I am talking about job availability, wages, etc. Those things are limping along. All those empty store fronts that were full and expanding during the Bush years tell a different tale than the stock market. Very few places now are growing like that. I know of a very few.




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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Imagine if an American was this obsessed with any foreign leader...


Hyuk.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
Imagine if an American was this obsessed with any foreign leader...


Hyuk.


Shhhhh,

...

...

...

Putin




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

Bingo.... and they have become so radicalised that they are now dedicating their entire effort and resources to smearing, sensationalising, lying to try and undo an election result.


All the power of Hollywood, 95% of the media, Vast resources and a radicalized population all working hard... Does everyone think that Obama's 99%ers actually grew up and got jobs?



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



Poor logic on your part too. How can a thread about deflecting from discussions relating to Trump using Hillary not play to the motives of other posters?


It would only apply if you were talking about the motives of the ones doing the deflecting. That is not how you are approaching the issue. You are using the motives of others as the deflection itself.



As for the OP's point, I am not proving it, I am dismissing it and denying the request.


Deny it all you want. You are doing exactly what the OP stated.


I have already talked about the motives of why people bring up Hillary on more than one occasion in this thread.
You seem to be having trouble - again. I would have thought you'd have learned your lesson by now.


Such arrogance.

Anyway, pure deflection, as the OP stated.

Trying to highlight the hypocrisy does not address the topic at hand. It deflects from it because it allows you to bypass the original premise, which would be about Trump, and place the focus on other members.

That's what you and others like to do.

Edit: I see others have picked up on your narrative. So much for being anti-propaganda, huh? You created your own.

edit on 21-7-2017 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's practically impossible to not bring up Clinton or Obama when the media/Democrats accuse Trump of things that are "wrong" that both other people have clear evidence of doing.

Sorry but that's just the state of things.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: TacSite18

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Greven

From someone living it ... the economy has not recovered. It has limped along.


From your point of view. I never had a problem even during the great recession. If fact, I moved my money into bonds and waited till the stocks bottomed out. Then got back in. Made a 30% net profit on my 401K, which is quite large at my age.

I will say this for Trump's stock market, it has been great for me. How about everyone else - how did your 401Ks do in the last 6 months?


The economy is not just the stock market. If you are saving for retirement, that money is more or less off limits.

I am talking about job availability, wages, etc. Those things are limping along. All those empty store fronts that were full and expanding during the Bush years tell a different tale than the stock market. Very few places now are growing like that. I know of a very few.


That was my whole point. I was trolling the conversation somewhat, in pointing out that if you are one of the fortunate people who things played out for, you think this economy is fine. I never lost my job. I got promoted. I have a 401K and at 55 years old, that is my focus.

If you earn over $250K a year all of this talk about jobs is pretty much static to you. I am pretty sure it is static to most of our congress folks, and it sure is to the president, who never had to interview for a job in his life.

They sing a nice tune in D.C. about jobs, but most of them are gone forever. US manufacturing and industrial output has continued to rise on a pretty straight line since WWI. The jobs that support those effort have declined inversely. Automation and productivity gains have eliminated most of those jobs. They are gone. Forever.

But, new jobs are being created all the time also. They involve new skills and education. But tell that to my buddies from high school who went to work at Bethlehem Steel in the late 70's, and were all unemployed by 2000. They never went to college, and felt they were too entitled to take up new careers as journeymen, so they all loafed around till here they are, broke and poor.

The car replaced the horse, and the black smith lost his living. Remember elevator operators? Ever see them any more?

The point I am poorly making is that some of this is luck, some of it is planning, and some of it is hard work.

I have two sons, 21 and 15. I have told both of them to major in Business in college. That is just a guess. But it worked out for me, and I managed to survive and thrive through the computer revolution, the internet, and now the start of AI. I have kept up, and can program computers, and design applications on an enterprise level. Did not learn that in college, just kept up, and never got complacent.

And I never felt entitled, like my buddies from high school.
edit on 21-7-2017 by TacSite18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's practically impossible to not bring up Clinton or Obama when the media/Democrats accuse Trump of things that are "wrong" that both other people have clear evidence of doing.

Sorry but that's just the state of things.


Let me use a example from the campaign trail.

Trump was caught on video saying he could grab women by their pus*sy, now at the time the narrative from Trump supporters was "ahhh but thats nothing compared to what bill done and Hillary covered for it". Now it might be true that she did but the topic at hand was actually about Trumps views towards women but his supporters deflected and made it about her.

To this day they are still doing this.

In all of the threads now about Russian collusion there are cries of "ahhh but the steel report thats collusion", and it might be, but its a separate issue. Does not take away from the fact the Trump was colluding with the Russians just like Bills transgressions do not take away form the fact that Trump has said some pretty sexist things in the past.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Dude on every single thread you take the pro-trump line and argue the opposite of any criticism against him.

I do not expect you to agree don't worry.



You know if everyone on the left would just let this play out for a few years to see where this all goes like we typically have done with every other President then we can all say whether he was successful or not. It is not that everyone is pro-Trump as much as anti radical left, and the radical left is huge today, thanks to Obama. They want to do everything they can to force him to fail so they can then say HE FAILED, instead of supporting him and the country to succeed.

It is all a 2020 political move, screw the country as long as the left wins 2020...lol GIVE ME A BREAK!




Sure. Let Trump break all the laws, subvert the election, trash the constitution, derail any attempts at oversight, and throw tantrums world-wide for a few years. Like all former presidents have done.

Sure, and when the "few years" are over, and we have lost our democracy, and we come to Xtrozero, and say "hey, we tried, now can you put it back?", I am sure you will wave your magic wand and fix it.

Does not work that way. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, my friend. Never let the weed take root.

It is just that Trump is a thin-rooted plant, so he will be weeded out of the garden of freedom fairly quickly.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How about we will only shut up about the Clintons when the Lame Street Media shuts up about the Russians and Trump.

Yep - its never going to end because Deep State is deperate for a nuclear war that will erase the evidence that convicts them of felony and treason.

The problem is, is that their final solution will erase the whole planet as well.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Dude on every single thread you take the pro-trump line and argue the opposite of any criticism against him.

I do not expect you to agree don't worry.



You know if everyone on the left would just let this play out for a few years to see where this all goes like we typically have done with every other President then we can all say whether he was successful or not. It is not that everyone is pro-Trump as much as anti radical left, and the radical left is huge today, thanks to Obama. They want to do everything they can to force him to fail so they can then say HE FAILED, instead of supporting him and the country to succeed.

It is all a 2020 political move, screw the country as long as the left wins 2020...lol GIVE ME A BREAK!




Bingo.... and they have become so radicalised that they are now dedicating their entire effort and resources to smearing, sensationalising, lying to try and undo an election result.


Trump certainly make that easy. He has left a bread-crumb-trail right up to the impeachment proceedings in the Senate.

And no, it is not about 2020, it is about 2018. The dems are trying to regain congress. And if the first 6 months are any indication of the next 18, they stand a good chance of getting it.

Then you can say "but Hillary, but Obama" all you like, but Donny is going to be standing in the dock on the Senate floor, and your cries will mean nothing.
edit on 21-7-2017 by TacSite18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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I'd say the main reason the two always come up together is because of the previous administrations ties to everything being brought up. Trump is simply trying to sort out the disasters created by his predecessor, of which Clinton was a major player in the game.

So many say Trump is failing at the health care bill....well why would that be? ObamaCare is what he was handed. I personally liked his response to those that are blocking a change....let it ride and fail miserably and place the blame for those that die or become homeless solely on the previous administration and those blocking a change.

We've had so many twists and turns with the Russia crap I can't even remember how it started, otger than whom the accusations started with....Clinton. Again, hard to bring up without mentioning her especially when you have dollar amounts, names and reports for numerous lies, one of the largest being that Uranium One won't export to otger countries and all uranium will stay in the US....well that was blown out of the water when one of the barrels of yellow cake exploded on a worker in Canada....if it's not being exported then how exactly did a shipment end uip there again?

Trouble with trying to separate is that you can't because all of the accusations lead back to Clinton and the call for resistance....apparently for the Democratic party there is no middle ground. And I've heard plenty saying the extremists don't represent all of them, well....Waters, Pelosi, and Hillary have all called for impeachment, resistance and general chaos on multiple occasions.

This would be a main reason why they can't be separated. Everything Trump is trying to do is related to a past action from prior administrations or lack of action rather. Many are because of laws on the books that aren't being enforced. Want it changed? Change the laws....pretty simple. Could have been changed for 8 years, but they weren't.


edit on 7/21/17 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I read your OP and thought "o.k." But what I don't understand is.......what's to debate about Trump? He's just another crummy US President. Some Americans love him; Some Americans hate him; and a lot of Americans, such as myself, just don't give a rip. The next US President will most likely be just another crummy politician or rich guy President. Considering what runs for office in the US, why would anyone think anything else would happen? In the final analysis, there's not one lousy thing anyone of us can do about it.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux
I don't see it as deflection. I see it as pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. The same group of people that slams Trump for every little thing he does or says, doesn't have the slightest issue with the things Clinton, Obama, Lynch, Holder, etc have done and in some cases still doing.

Trump could sneeze and the left would blame Russian collusion on it and scream for impeachment. Corruption on the left is A-ok.

As long as the left continues to turn a blind eye to the actions of this last administration we will continue to point out the blatent hypocrisy of it.


Hypocrisy. Every one is tossing that word around. If you really want to use the word hypocrisy in a new and exciting way, you could say all the working class Trump voters are guilty of hypocrisy, because they voted against their self interest.

Hmmm. Would that fly?

Or would that require too much introspection from the fine worker bees in our society?

Hypocrisy,

Say it to yourself if you are getting screwed right now.

Say it to yourself when you get screwed tomorrow.

By the people you put in office.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: Grevenwere have you been hiding mars the depression they called the great resession did not end in 2009 it still has lingering effects to this day. i do remember obama giving billions to gmc and they turner around and used it to build plant in brazil. and hillary was also polarizing every one of my african american friends except3 currently in the military told me any one who voted for trump must be a rascist because you had to vote for hillary the next black president on that all i could do was smdh




posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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Two wrongs make a right seems to be the "thing" on ATS now.

"Trump did this thing.."
"Yea.. but Hillary did this thing!"
".. what does that have to do with Trump?"

That typically is how it goes. Classic deflection to avoid actually debating Trump and his decisions and policies. I get having to involve Obama when discussing a policy he supported, didn't remove, or put into place. But there is far too much "Yea well but.." around ATS now.

Trump doing or saying something stupid is not magically excused from that thing just because Obama or MSM did or said something. You see this all the time with how Trump reacts to media sources that don't agree with him. He'll say something stupid.. and he is excused for that thing, because apparently MSM "deserved it." Two wrongs don't make a right. CNN saying something that pisses Trump and his minions off, doesn't make it ok to become un-Presidential and say something incredibly stupid back to them.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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People will stop making it about Clinton when people stop pretending Clinton was in any reasonable way or form a better option.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: Rapha
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How about we will only shut up about the Clintons when the Lame Street Media shuts up about the Russians and Trump.

Yep - its never going to end because Deep State is deperate for a nuclear war that will erase the evidence that convicts them of felony and treason.

The problem is, is that their final solution will erase the whole planet as well.




How about we will only shut up about the Clintons when the Lame Street Media shuts up about the Russians and Trump.


Because all good Americans must insure that their government is not corrupt. If you see something, say something. Fix it in real time. I don't know if you have a time machine or what - how are you going back in time and correct any perceived problems with Hillary - who was never charged, much less convicted?




Yep - its never going to end because Deep State is deperate for a nuclear war that will erase the evidence that convicts them of felony and treason.


This is the classic example of a straw man. Mind if I use it in the future to illustrate what not to do in a logical debate?

Calm down.

Have a beer.





posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 01:05 PM
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If Hillary doesn't want to be mentioned, maybe she should should shut her trap and go back into the woods.
If anyone doesn't want others to speak of her, they can urge her back into the woods.
ATS thread from April 2017... Hillary is back



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: UKTruth



Poor logic on your part too. How can a thread about deflecting from discussions relating to Trump using Hillary not play to the motives of other posters?


It would only apply if you were talking about the motives of the ones doing the deflecting. That is not how you are approaching the issue. You are using the motives of others as the deflection itself.



As for the OP's point, I am not proving it, I am dismissing it and denying the request.


Deny it all you want. You are doing exactly what the OP stated.


I have already talked about the motives of why people bring up Hillary on more than one occasion in this thread.
You seem to be having trouble - again. I would have thought you'd have learned your lesson by now.


Such arrogance.

Anyway, pure deflection, as the OP stated.

Trying to highlight the hypocrisy does not address the topic at hand. It deflects from it because it allows you to bypass the original premise, which would be about Trump, and place the focus on other members.

That's what you and others like to do.

Edit: I see others have picked up on your narrative. So much for being anti-propaganda, huh? You created your own.


Just wondering, but why can't the discussion be about both? Why shouldn't it? Just because someone committed a crime years ago doesn't mean they shouldn't and couldn't be held accountable....hence the statute of limitations differences for each crime.

My problem with making it about one versus the other at this point is that one has provably committed a crime and played it off as if they were too dumb to understand, yet held one of the highest positions in government and was a runner up for POTUS...while the other has yet to have been proven to have committed any crime at all and is being chastised by the Democratic party and MSM.

One has $hat all over the American people for decades while the otger got rich because of laws the first one helped pass.

One is a career politician who has had major influence on our country and where we are today in terms of economics and foreign policy while the other was never in politics.

One got rich off our tax dollars while the other got rich by building a business.

While I am sure BOTH have had shady dealings, one has been proven to have done such while the other has yet to be proven to have done anything the accusers claim.

In this respect, you can't argue one without the other being involved as what we are dealing with is a country that the Clintons have had a hand in shaping for 30 years in 2 of the highest offices in the US Government and Trump who has been in for 7 months of nothing but "resistance" And attacks at every turn and likely currently has the same attempt at destroying him as Clinton did to Bernie....again proven it was done to Bernie.




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