Harley-Davidson cuts shipments forecast; shares skid

a reply to: Bluntone22

$30,000 bikes aren't selling?

These are (were) status symbols, and with the Baby boomers aging, very few people find value in these.

I always liked the honda 350 from the late 1970's. They were not $30,000 bikes. Being old enough to recognize that if I fall I break keeps my off of the bikes though.

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
I'm seeing this first hand trying to sell my father's Harley trike. He passed away a couple months ago. It's brand new with all the options. 700 miles. He paid $36K for it new and it appraised for $27k. I'll be lucky to get $20k out of it. The market is completely saturated and Harley's customer base is dying off.

It's beautiful to look at for sure, but I just can't see how this bike stickered for $36K. For that price, I could get a very nice car!

Though I don't ride ( I prefer my ATV's), If I did decide to purchase a motorcycle, it definitely wouldn't be a Harley. So many choices out there with better versatility, value and fun.

My husband and I were looking at a Harley trike a few years back and it came with a large sticker price with absolutely no extras. All I was looking for were arm and foot rests and a storage compartment, which I thought should be standard items. They want to nickel and dime (actually C note) us to death.

a reply to: seasonal

Go look at the price of pickups today.
60k models are easy to find.
I'm sure cost doesn't help sell these bikes but I think it goes farther than that.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: seasonal

Go look at the price of pickups today.
60k models are easy to find.
I'm sure cost doesn't help sell these bikes but I think it goes farther than that.

These are (were) status symbols, and with the Baby boomers aging, very few people find value in these.

Edit,
And you are correct, how in the world are these super trucks selling? I paid $30,000 for a house in a desirable area here in Michigan (yes there are some desirable places) 7 years ago. The prices must reflect the fact that the hourly guy is making too much.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: seasonal

Go look at the price of pickups today.
60k models are easy to find.
I'm sure cost doesn't help sell these bikes but I think it goes farther than that.

But the issue is bringing in new young riders to fill the void the typical 16-18 Yr Old only has a few thousand for the first car or first bike. Not too many high school kids rolling new 60K trucks around here.

Old technology and a high price tag only appeals to the guys who specifically WANT a Harley. If you just want a motorcycle there are plenty of Japanese bikes that are more affordable and more reliable than a good ol HD.

a reply to: SilentStigma

When I was in high school "way back" nobody wanted a Harley, everybody wanted rice burners.
They transitioned to Harleys as the got older.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I think the problem with Harley's is that they are prestige machines, and people do not want to pay for labels, they want to pay for experiences these days, and there are simply cheaper alternatives with more readily available parts and so on, so why would anyone buy a Harley when they could get a cheaper alternative, with cheaper potential modifications?

Me personally, I am not the sort of fellow who would purchase, or ride a motorcycle. The roads around here are bad, potholed, messy affairs and the standard of the driving skill of motorcar owners is not great enough to properly account for the presence of motorcycles, or anything smaller than cars to be brutally honest. Some drivers even have trouble keeping an eye out for cars and trucks, so why anyone expects to be remotely safe on the roads, while in control of a motorcycle is beyond me entirely.

No, if I am going on Britain's roads, I will be going out with a few millimeters of metal or plastic at least, between me and the road, and me and other cars!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Agreed,
People spend money on what's important to them at the time. Today that's under armor, Hollister jeans and I phone's.
Culture has changed priorities.

When you buy a H & D you'd better buy you a good service plan or a good set of mechanics tools & the knowledge. They are and have always been a more "needy" bike than others. It may be their sales are falling cause of the price.....when people can't find jobs, folks don't buy motorcycles.....Make a bike that 3/4 of the American populace can afford and in now time we'll look like Singapore, or Hong Kong......scooter gangs everywhere.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I put this one in chit chat because I felt it had more to do with culture change than economics or politics.

Apparently Harley Davidson sales are in the tank.
The reason is an aging rider base of baby boomers retiring and not buying new bikes and those same folks selling used bikes flooding the market.

Younger kids are not taking up the hobby enough to replace the people getting out of the hobby.
Maybe younger kids prefer quieter more reliable rides?
I have also heard about kids not even getting drivers licences at 16. Just no interest.

Harley expects a 20% drop in sales for the next quarter. That's a huge hit.

www.reuters.com...

Yes, you're absolutely correct. I honestly don't see the Millenials having any interest in motorcycles. And you are also correct that many aren't getting drivers licenses.

We live in the most interesting of times, (other than the political scene), in that we stand on the brink of a HUGE paradigm shift on very many fronts; economic and cultural. The "America" of 2050 will little resemble today's "America". All electric cars; urban centers where only Self Driving cars are allowed; universal basic income; zero population growth (or negative population growth). Far less freedom but it won't matter because the sheeple will be so consumed with distractions, they won't even notice, much less care.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

I have been riding bikes for 50 years. I have owned many rice burners and Harleys. I even owned a couple of Bultacos back in the day. Currently own an early Dyna (60k miles) and a Yamaha XT (20k miles). Both are 25 years old. The Yammer takes more care than the Dyna. Lots of talk here about dependability and such from people that have never had the experiences. Just saying.

Harley is suffering from a shift in tastes. Pundits have tried to get Harley to offer other styles of bikes but they seem to be culturally entrenched in their current core customer - aging boomers. With that said, their current advertising seems to indicate that they clearly know this is an issue and they have been trying to attract hipsters. Go to Harley's website and it is nothing but skinny jeans and beards.

Hipsters /millennials do ride but they prefer a different style of bike. They aren't into the large Road Kings / Street Glides. They like cafe racers, bobbers, super motos, adventure bikes, etc. None of which Harley currently offers. Also, when they do decide to get a cruiser, many are looking at Indian which doesn't seem to be hurting. They are also buying Triumphs as well.

In general, motorcycles in America at least are seen as more recreational vehicles mainly because of our open roads. Also, younger generations have been wussified to fear anything that could be considered dangerous. Yes, you can get killed or badly injured on a motorcycle, but you can also drown in a pool, fall down stairs or off a ladder, etc.

I've been riding a few years and IDGAF. I can't live life in bubble wrap. I enjoy it and a very defensive rider. I am not into high speeds, dragging knees, wheelies and all the other show boating that many guys like to engage in. I wear my gear / helmet and ride like everyone in a cage is out to kill me. Vast majority of deaths/accidents on motorcycles involve alcohol, aggressive speeding, etc. None of which I do so I am not overly concerned.

I hope Harley pulls it together. However, to be frank, even if their sales are off, they still sell way more bikes than anyone else.

As a daily rider of motorcycles I believe they are going up in popularity. Especially in my state where its riding weather 24/7. People just don't want Harley's anymore. After 10000 miles they start rattling apart and leaking and become a money pit. They are also big and heavy they just don't fit in well with today's fads. I currently ride daily my Yamaha FZ600 and I fricken love it. Plenty of power and performance. Its comfortable and reliable. I am at 36000 miles on Amy (my Yamaha) and the only part I had to replace was the cooling fan after a rock destroyed the old one.

2 times I have been out with my buddy who has a Harley and both times he ran into problems.

Wanna know how to tell if your Harley is out of oil? When it stops leaking!

BTW. Iv been riding about 13 years now and I have been in 2 pretty serious wrecks. Only one was because I was being dumb. Luckily I only hurt myself but im fine now.

I also own a 1976 Triumph Bonneville that I take to shows

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
Could be more parents are drilling the dangers of motorcycles into the younger generation.

...or the fact that Harley Davidson is based on a name rather than a product, and the product is too expensive in a flooded market that it can no longer control because it's bikes, parts, servicing etc are so expenive for something with low performance, terrible economy and clichés galore.

Give it another ten years and I'll have a Royal Enfield chop, hand built, great value, easy care, INDIVIDUAL and great fun......but not ready for a harley unless it fell in my lap or I needed a new ride-on mower.

Ride safe.

Harley-Davidson cuts shipments forecast; shares skid

I hope they go out of business. They're loud and they're garbage.

originally posted by: calwoodbutcher
a reply to: openyourmind1262

I have been riding bikes for 50 years. I have owned many rice burners and Harleys. I even owned a couple of Bultacos back in the day. Currently own an early Dyna (60k miles) and a Yamaha XT (20k miles). Both are 25 years old. The Yammer takes more care than the Dyna. Lots of talk here about dependability and such from people that have never had the experiences. Just saying.

Kind of what I was thinking. I was always told ............in the wind is in the wind. Its not what you ride it is the adventure itself. This basically turned into a Harley bashing thread, I've owned Yamahas, Triumphs, Hondas, and now own a Harley. My next bike will more than likely be a BMW 1200. Every bike has had its own little problems. But for the most part they have all been pretty reliable and fun. Just my 2 cents. Don't forget the 750 Kawasaki widow maker. That thing almost killed me.

Assume much? How in the world would you know if I have the "experiences" or not. So you know I've owned two & both stayed in the shop more than in the road.a reply to: calwoodbutcher

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
Don't forget the 750 Kawasaki widow maker. That thing almost killed me.

lol...EVERYONE I've ever met who has owned one of them said pretty much the same thing. Makes you wonder how many that bike actually DID kill.

a reply to: Bluntone22

That's why I said it's a culture swing more than a financial one.

yah, like older Harleys, original WWII Hells Angles bomber pilots aren't around much anymore either.

a reply to: Tarzan the apeman.

Had an H1 brother. I know what you mean. More fun than a barrel of 4 strokes and loved the sound.