Senate goes ahead with Obamacare repeal without replacement

a reply to: roadgravel

and who gave the insurance companies that control?

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: TacSite18

all that and yet you still want to let them take more control?

At the present, insurance companies are in control of your health. They decide if they will pay their part for a drug, medical treatment, etc. Given it's now a big business to make money, the costs are such that very few have the wealth level to make their own call.

Agreed. And they make decisions based upon $$$$. Who currently has a profit motive at CMMS (center for Medicare and medicaid services - part of HHS)?

Just a bunch of middle class Americans providing and managing the programs, and feeling pretty good about helping their fellow Americans.

a reply to: TacSite18

so you gripe that your not getting enough for your money (which has been stolen) and are fine with shelling out more funding???

OK then

like I said. it sounds Your trying to cure a drug addict with crack.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: roadgravel

and who gave the insurance companies that control?

The politicians they own. If the GOP dumps ACA there will be nothing. There will be cheering for a time until the true scope of the catastrophe is realized and then the GOP will be able to pass just about anything. Exactly what their overlords, the insurance companies, want.

a reply to: jtma508

they own the DNC as well. I dont see how you can differentiate the two anymore.

personally I like what I heard from Trump today. More competition, more options, more state level. Give more choices and hence more power to the average american.

a reply to: agenda51

LOL. Sorry man if I seemed a bit short with ya last night. I was a bit tired and had to work early today so I just kinda bailed on ya mid conversation.

Ok, let me try and explain what it is I'm saying from the top. The way I see it is that Healthcare is about taking care of peoples health. Not making a profit from their pain. Which means when it comes to a nations people and their health it's a public domain kind of idea. We all need it at some point and it benefits us all when everyone has it.

It's not just some hippy compassionate idea either. Every American should want all other Americans to also be healthy. If we're healthy and happy it makes our entire society better all around. I don't want you to be sick and you shouldn't want me to be sick either. For one thing we can infect others. I don't want everyone around me being sick or hurt or anything because who wants to live in a society of sick or injured people all the time. Or worse yet, be one of those people. So it just makes sense to want everyone as healthy as possible.

Why Government instead of private business though?? Well as we've said, I don't trust either of them to do what's right all on their own. But at least with our system of Gov. the People have a say in what happens. At least that is how it's supposed to be and how we were founded. Private Business we don't have any control over at all. So it's not about trusting them, it's about the fact that one of them is set up to serve the people and the other only has to serve themselves.

If we would stand together as free people and take back our intended roll and make those in Gov. actually represent us like they are supposed to, letting the Gov. run healthcare under our watch would be fine. For one, you make it so everyone in office has the same health coverage as those they serve. When we are all in it together the same then you'd actually see your officials represent you they way they should because then you're all on equal ground.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: TacSite18

so you gripe that your not getting enough for your money (which has been stolen) and are fine with shelling out more funding???

OK then

like I said. it sounds Your trying to cure a drug addict with crack.

That is not what I said. When did I say I was dissatisfied with my heath care? I get great medical care, and so does my family.

I think that you are not interested in having an honest discussion. I laid out the situation as I see it, and a fairly simple method of resolving the problem of medical coverage for all Americans that could be implemented tomorrow.

Ok, you have now taken out discussion off the rails. I really don't know how to respond to your last response, except to say that I will not attempt to have any further honest discussions with you. I would also caution you, that this is not the mud pit, where you can troll for fun, and that other members have witnessed how you are behaving when someone tries to take you seriously.

Have a nice life. Watch your back in the Mud Pit.....

We already have a health care system controlled by the federal government, it's called Medicare.

Anyone over the age of 65 or who has a disability can get Medicare. There are no premiums you pay for Medicare part A because it's already paid for through taxes. You do pay premiums for parts B, C and D but you don't pay much more than about $300/month.

So...you're mandated to have it insofar as you're mandated to pay taxes. Bernie Sanders introduced S. 1782 way back in 2013 to expand the Medicare program.

Including private insurance companies in any way forward will result in either higher premiums for everyone or some people not being able to afford health care at all. If we continue forward with private plans for everyone then we either suck it up and pay more or force ourselves to be OK with hundreds of thousands of people dying because they can't pay.

a reply to: mOjOm

no worries about that other stuff..

anyways. Here is where i stand... I. have zero faith in government at this point right or left. I still believe free market competition is the way to go here but our biggest problem is the crony capitalism going on. Find a way to get government out of it and things can work. otherwise it will be more of the same IMO.

Right now i think we need Trump to just push things in the direction where americans can make their own decisions and have the most options possible. This includes not going the insurance route at all if chosen.

we give them more money and more control we are just going to get the same result we have had with SSI, bailouts, education, ACA.... whatever. You want them to use money more efficiently we really need to give them a lot less of it.

a reply to: links234

LOL... Bernie should write a bill that lets us all get on his health care plan.

where is that bill?

originally posted by: amazing
I can't believe we keep voting for the same idiots in Congress and then sit here arguing over the wrong things.

We argue over governments rights to force us to buy insurance or insurance laws that raise our premiums and we argue about paying for each others medical coverage.

But none of that is the real issue.

Americans, like myself, pay thousands, Tens of thousands and in some case hundreds of thousands of dollars in our life times to Health Insurance, Medicaid/medicare, Social Security, Federal and state income and Sales taxes.

It's not that I want anyone to pay for my or my families health care. I've already done it. And probalby paid for yours too, if your reading this. All I want is the ability to get the healthcare coverage I've already paid for and to force my insurance carrier to cover my family since I've been paying them for decades. All of that with out having to fight them for procedures that we need and to keep our coverage in case they want to drop us. And all of that without going banktrupt.

Since I pay taxes and have done so for the better part of 50 years, I wouldn't mind if "MY" tax money went toward universal healthcare or single payer health care subsidized by the government instead of my tax money going towards -the NSA< Homeland security, Wars in the middle east, tax subsidies for coal and oil and auto companies adn wall street bailouts.

Seems fair?

I agree completely, and I am pretty conservative. I know some here are going to call me a rino, but conservatism has never been a low-key war on human empathy, fed by cynisism. A lot of those on the So called "right" today are bitter people who's lives are filled with hatred for others, and souls so tortured that only the suffering of others can give them a brief moment of mournful glee.

They are not conservatives, who seek to maintain what is good, and use caution in making things better - but who always strive to make things better. For everyone.

I would say shame on some people but they have no shame.

a reply to: agenda51

Once again it's not about faith or trust or anything like that. It should be like any other job or position which comes with duties and responsibilities. If the person in that position doesn't preform as required they're gone and replaced by someone who can do the job. That's how it needs to work. Then you don't have to trust them or have faith in them doing what's right. Because they either do what they're supposed to do or they get in trouble.

It shouldn't come down to having to rely on people being good and honest of their own will. That's great if they are but you don't want to rely on that because people an unpredictable. But you have a system in place which compels them to act correctly or they pay the price.

The problem with the free market is that some things don't belong in a free market. Healthcare is about taking care of people. That should be the primary motivation behind it. Not profit. Private business is about profit first and that is it's primary goal. If making a profit comes before taking care of the person, the person will always suffer.

Single payer makes sense because it's the largest pool possible including everyone in the same pool. Everyone pays in a little and anyone can use it. If someone needs care they can just go get it. It would simplify everything so much and could easily work. The reason costs are so high and everything is so messed up is because of that whole profit issue now. There can still be plenty of money to go around to support it but without certain entities raping the system for huge profit off of others pain and suffering.

a reply to: agenda51

The reason they don't kill it is they have been lying the whole time about it. Not that it's all good..

But the effects of killing it would be a disaster..

a reply to: agenda51

All members of congress are required to obtain health insurance through Obamacare exchanges. Either the DC exchange or the federal exchange, they choose which.

So, the bill you want was already passed and it's called Obamacare.

Congressional staffers likely get their insurance through the Federal Employee Health Benefits plan where the federal government pays for about half of the premium.

The CBO Report issued today shows how out of touch that government agency (and CNBC) is with REALITY...

""A new official analysis released Wednesday 7.19.2017, finds that repealing much of Obamacare without a replacement law would increase the number of people without health insurance by 32 million people, double insurance premiums in the individual plan market and leave most of the United States without an insurer selling such plans by 2026.""

Source: www.cnbc.com...

Actual CBO Publication: www.cbo.gov...

How are 17 million people going to lose their health insurance in 2018, when there are only 8-10 million people who have ObamaCare private health insurance in 2017?

CBO must stand for "Colluding w/ Barack Obama"

originally posted by: carewemust
How are 17 million people going to lose their health insurance in 2018, when there are only 8-10 million people who have ObamaCare private health insurance in 2017?

Depends on which parts are repealed. If it's straight repeal then 9 million lose insurance from the exchanges, another couple million lose insurance due to pre-existing conditions and the rest just choose not to buy insurance. Also the number of people that could lose Medicaid because Obamacare expanded the maximum annual income.

So some people could just choose to not have insurace, the CBO counts that as a 'loss' and a lot of people will just straight up lose what coverage they have now. On top of that we could go back to a time where insurers drop people when they get sick. 'Oh, you got diagnosed with cancer? Your coverage has ended and we won't pay for treatment, good luck getting an affordable plan with a pre-existing condition though!'

If I were in the EU shoes I wouldn't be celebrating a victory against the evil right-wing conservatives due to this!

Obamacare doesn't mandate the federal government pay subsidies to insurance companies. This is its flaw. Trump can still make it fail by not paying subsidies to insurance companies.

President Donald Trump has threatened to cut off crucial Obamacare cost-sharing subsidies, estimated at $7 billion this year, as soon as next month. That could lead to an exodus of insurers, who rely on those payments to reduce out-of-pocket costs for their poorest customers under Obamacare.

www.politico.com...

Trump threatens to end bailouts for Big Insurance unless Obamacare is made skinny by repealing the mandates.

www.msn.com...

a reply to: mOjOm

the problem with your concept as I see it is twofold.

1: we have people in office like Pelosi, schumer, McConnell, who have been around a long time and only ever screwed things up and people still vote for them. You have a lot of faith in the people to get off their butts pay attention and actually vote.

2: In the free market I can move to another provider if the people I have suck, if the Fed controls it I am stuck with the suck. (speaking as a vet watching 22 a day commit suicide because the Va is that bad in most places)

one additional point; Once the Fed gets their red tape loving bureaucratic mitts on something getting them to let go is nearly impossible so even if we vote people out of office the Fed will still be dorking up the healthcare.