ATS: European Union Set to Ban Nutritional Supplements

Originally posted by paperclip
Oh man... this talk about modern medicine screwing you over and everyone can very easily be their own doctor and know thousand of different enzymatic reactions that go on in your body, blood, brain, liver, lungs, kidneys, functioning of cells, metabolism, just by looking it up on internet or some second hand herbal book... I mean, COME ON!!! People are over-doing this "be your own doctor" fad. It is too dangerous. If curing diseases with "supplements" and "herbal" medicine was so good and easy, then why did so many people die in the past from the simplest infections and diseases?? Diseases that MODERN medicine has cured or developed a far better treatment then Vit C overdose.

That indymedia article makes it look like doctors and pharmacists have had one single mission for the past 100 years and that is "make everone more sick then they already are". Oddly enough, during the last 100 years human life span has increased, many diseases that were deadly are not deadly anymore, many infections that used to kill people now pass by with just an itch thanks to modern medicine. So, all that is crap, eh?

Doctors help people. They actually study human body properly. The medicine helps people. If you got tuberculosis and drink only tea and Vit C, you die. If you take proper medicine, imunisation, you LIVE.


If you feel a pain in your back, do you really think you KNOW all the possibilites, everything that can be the cause of that pain? Do you really think someone selling tea can tell you that? Or how about that all-time favourite "hey, I have a friend who had a pain in his back and he used *insert herb here*, I'm gonna do that too". Second hand self-diagnosis.... man....

Herbal medicine, nutrition supplements are ok as long as you are properly diagnosed and a lot of doctors do prescribe them as adjuvant to other forms of medication.

If this ban passes then people would actually go to a doctor before they buy them and that would greatly increase their lifespan, save them from their own stupidity.

Modern medicine has one overall goal: to make money. The medical industrial complex is one that generates billions of dollars. When one examines modern medicine, one can see that doctors don't know half as much as they think. Many times doctors simply prescribe medications without knowing exactly what they do. Often they will presrcibe a medication, and of that doesnt work, try another one, instead of really looking into what is causing the problem. And the side effects of many medications are far worse than the ailments they are supposed to be treating. I also see too many examples in medical research, where one study claims one, thing, another claims another thing, and yet another study contradicts the others. So in reality, doctors really dont know half the time what they are talking about, or doing for that matter.

When one considers that more people in the US die every year from medical mistakes, drug reactions, ect, than die in this country from guns, one can easily see why people have lost faith in the medical profession, and are looking to learn more about themselves and natural medicine. And I know for a fact, that I know my own body better than any doctor does. Modern medicine completely generalizes people, ignoring that every body is different, that one treatment or a group of treatments isnt a one size fits all, and ignores the body/mind/spirit as a whole entity.

I soeak as someone who has had medical problems in the past that never were corrected or treated properly by health care "professionals, and also as someone who is caring for a dying mother, whose condition is made alot worse by the "wisdom" of the high holy medical profession. Your assement is incorrect. It is not dangerous for people to m"play their own doctors", as people have done this successfully for thousands of years. What is dangerous is to place too much faith in the industrial complex of health care, and to believe that the govornment has everyones best interest at heart. That "mother knows best" mentality allows them to gain more and more control over the private lives and wishes of citizens, who perhaps do not want health acre from the great machine, but prefer a more personal, natural, whole regiment of health.

The dangers of herbal suppliments have been greatly exaggerated upon by the media, blown out of proportion. The superbugs that currently are a bane in modern medicine are a result of over abuse of antibiotics, and kill more people every year than any natural remedies do.

I trust my health and well being to my own judgement far more than I do a doctor, and I have been rewarded for my discretion.

My body is far more than a collection of chemical reactions, enzymes, ect. If you do not like herbal medicine, than dont take it. But there are those of us who trust natural medicine far more than the dehumanizing modern industrial complex, and what this boils down to is CHOICE. My body, my health my choice, and no govornment has the right to regulate or take away that CHOICE, period.

Please take an hour or so and listen to this internet radio program from April 27 with Marilyn Nelson from the organization stopcodexalliance.com. Fascinating info she provided about codex, the legislation which will be passed in Canada in July as well as information on the benefits of vitamins, supplements, amino acids etc., to treat everyday afflictions. She speaks of things you'll never hear about from your doctor!

Internet radio broadcast on spyman.ca

as people have done this successfully for thousands of years.

And remember that people have for thousands of years had a life expantancy of around 30-35 years, that is what Paperclip was trying to get at I believe... I personally would not be alive today if it weren't for modern medicine, chances are I would have died in the womb taking my mother with me(due to some unfortunate complications with my birth) and later on in life when I developed Asthma and got into life threatining accidents etc, Modern Medicine has save my ass soo many times I can't even count them any more. Sure it is not perfect but when compared to the Snake-Oils peddlers of the 19th Century, the field has come a long way. Seems like the Snake-Oil salesmen are making a comback though....not saying all alternatives are "Snake-Oil" they need to be studied is all.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by sardion2000]

interesting that as a canadian i have heard apsolutely nothing about this untill now!

this type of thing is one of the biggest pieces of # out there today! this type of arbatrary ruleing is BAD for people's HEALTH! the medical proffesion and pharmasuitical companies do not only NOT KNOW EVERY THING THERE IS TO KNOW, but in all honesty would be apsolutely nowhere if it wasn't for "hearbal" remidies. that is where "modern medicen has it's roots. it was DOCTORS that used INSANE ideas like bloodletting to "try" to cure people. sure they have come a long way from there but lets face it, all MODERN MEDICIN AND DRUGS started out because these "herbal" remidies did things that seemed to help sick and injured peoples. people have even complaind about the destruction of the rain forrest as we are still finding medicines and cures from within the life there.

it would only make sence to regulate the industry. as yes there could be problems with SOME herbal/vitamin suppliments. so some "MAY" cause harm. so SOME PEOPLE are abuseing some of them (note just like any and every medication can and is abused). what are we now seeing daily on adds from the pharmasuitical companies? HUGE LONG LISTS of "possible" side effects. that being the case should not these ALL be outlawed as well? that is IF this was realy about "HEALTH CONCERNS". but no it is about the fact that herbal and vitamin remidies are CUTTING INTO PHAMASUITICAL PROFFITS!!! yet another corporate lobbying group that buys government officials with things like campain funds. WHEN ARE THE "PEOPLE" GOING TO COME BEFORE CORPERATIONS?

if the medical proffesions are so dammed good how come it took my mother almost DYEING a few times before they finaly figured out what was wrong??? if pharmasuitical companies are the be all and end all for healthy liveing and cures, then how come THEIR medication did nothing to help other than to keep her alive? it wasn't untill she found a "remidy" in suppliments that she started to be able to do stuff again. a suppliment that i might add is ALREADY ILLIGAL here? it seems that quite a few people who suffer from her condition ruteenly have to SMUGGLE said supliments from the states, turning ordinary people into criminals? and this just so that they can TRY to live a decent life. how is this HELPING? ok there may be some reason for it's bann, if there is no one realy knows why, includeing a nurse that i know, all she knows is that it is banned. and i might add that the other "legal and proscibed" meds seem to haave side effects, from prednisone turning her from, a normal healthy size into a BLIMP, not from overeating this is a NORMAL SIDE EFFECT for this "wonder drug", ( it's real fun to hear some of the comments put her way, and hear parrents telling their kids that she is why they need to eat healthy and propperly, guess what BEFORE her problem she was very athletic and healthy). to the fact that some of the meds are causeing severe refux probleems, she can't even drink fruit juices or even eat too much fruit due to the fact that the acid in them just makes things worse, so guess what she NEEDS vitamins.

sure it would be good for the industry to be "watched over" as there are some people who will sell dog crap as a cyre all. but to be honest most a a lot more concerned about people's health then pharmasuitical corperatios are. in fact they are more likely to be the ones selling dog crap the wonder drug themselves.

i am not a biological resercher by any means, but i have been wondering if a lot of peoples currant health problems, from being overweight to the growing number of cancer patiants is precisely from all the "TINKERING" that pharmasuitical and food manufacturers are doing to NATURAL things. if ANYTHING should be banned or sharply monitered it is all these "wonderdrugs" like prozac, rittilin, prednisone, and many, many, others. but nope these are produced by PHARMISUITICAL companies so they are not a problem. the only problem is these little "fla" like companies selling more natural supliments, are sucking the life blood that rightfully belongs to big corperations, that manipulate everything that they touch.

and as for these "costs" for passing stuff. that looks like it is spacificaly set up so that ONLY A BIG CORPERATION CAN AFFORD TO DO IT. it's a nice trick to make sure that only those with money can tell us what EXPENSIVE remidies that we need to use to "STAY HEALTHY", (if you can afford it of course).

drogo, I can say pretty much the exact thing ... about some natural therapies(and some of the peopel who push them, a real Herbalist will know thier # while the "Snake oil" salesmen will try to sell as much of the stuff as possilbe, the Health Food industry is a Business out to make money as well you know) that were shoved down my Aunt's throat for a whole year while she was dying of Cancer, after a year of no improvements(and severe degredation in her condition) she finally started Chemo and Radiation treatments but by then it was too late.....

I am no fan of the Pharmicuetical industries by any means but one DOES have to reconize the good it has done for society. Most of the evidance that supports natural therapies is Anecdotal in nature not Empiracal.

ANYTHING CAN BE TOXIC! Remember that...

[edit on 29-4-2005 by sardion2000]

Sardion - why is it then that they will want to control and reduce our freedom of choice to take 1000 mg of Vitamin C, which helps fight so many things. Is this looking after our health safety? That we will likely only be able to get dosages of 5-10 mg and pay much more for the privilege...or conversely will have to get a prescription TO BUY VITAMINS? What's up with that. Sounds like a business move on the part of big pharma to me. Most everything we need to keep us healthy are to be found in vitamins A,C,&E.

If the legislation is coming about as a result of the government's concern for our health safety, why is it coming on the heels of world trade organization agreements, which if not voted upon positively can result in sanctions against us, or, in the case of the poorest countries, their funding being cut off. Codex alimentarius is the brainchild of big pharma...and in order for big pharma to stay big, people have to stay sick... think about it.

Although I agree with you that yes, modern medicine has bettered the world in many ways, there are means for getting and staying healthy by taking vitamins, supplements, amino acids. Things you never hear from your doctor - that SARS, every flu out there, asythma, attention deficit disorder, depression, cancer prevention and so on can be treated NATURALLY. Think of this - our food and water supply is so compromised you could never get all the vitamins you need from your diet.

Where's the harm in that? Why does the government need to police that?



[edit on 29/4/05 by AlwaysLearning]

Originally posted by drogo
interesting that as a canadian i have heard apsolutely nothing about this untill now!

With Gomery they're keeping us dumbed down. I even wrote to CBC the National a few weeks ago to ask them to do an indepth analysis of Codex and Bill C420. I'm still waiting for a response!

I'm so mad angry about this...if you are too, print the petition and give it to 20 people and tell them to do the same. Time is running out!

And in the meantime...stock up on the vitamins you like to take because their cost is going to skyrocket and dosages will be useless...or sooner or later you'll need a prescription to buy it!

Drogo, I know what youre talking about. My mother had to take this "wonderdrug" prednisone. It was given to her to reduce lung inflamation, but it caused her large, unsightly weight gain because thats what this poison does. It also lowered her immunue system, caused hair loss, skin sores, bad body odor, constipation, and headaches, and because of the added weight it caused, actually ended up reducing her ability to breathe right. These are all common side affects of this medically sanctioned "cure". Their narrow, one symptom treatment tactics end up causing about 5 more bad side effects pure "cure". Seems modern medicine creates more problems with its drugs than it cures.

And I beg to differ about "life extension". People died younger in earlier years for alot of other reasons. Poor hygeine and sanitation spread diseases, eating old, rotten food spread more, and women often were having babies at too young an age. When these conditions improved, so did general life expectancy.

I am yet to see modern medicine improve quality of life over quantity. Chemotherapy may cure cancer, but its multiple bad side efefcts, which end up requiring even more poisons to counteract, certainly do not help out quality of life. More life means nothing if its spent weakened, depeleted, and suffering, and prone to end up with even more cancer.

So, for those of you that do not believe in natural medicine, well, its quite simple. Don't take it. Continue using doctors and the medical industrial complex. But frankly, its none of yours or the govornments damn business if there are those of us, having no faith in modern medicine, decide to take our own health in our own hands, where we trust it and care about it more than doctors do. If you dont trust natural remedies, then simply do not buy them, do not take them. But you sure as hell have no business telling the rest of us what we can take, and how we choose to manage ourt own health care.

Healthcare is a personal issue that it up to the individual, not up to the doctors, drug companies, govornments, or other aspects of society. Its none of your business, period.

Originally posted by AlwaysLearning

Originally posted by drogo
interesting that as a canadian i have heard apsolutely nothing about this untill now!

With Gomery they're keeping us dumbed down. I even wrote to CBC the National a few weeks ago to ask them to do an indepth analysis of Codex and Bill C420. I'm still waiting for a response!

I'm so mad angry about this...if you are too, print the petition and give it to 20 people and tell them to do the same. Time is running out!

And in the meantime...stock up on the vitamins you like to take because their cost is going to skyrocket and dosages will be useless...or sooner or later you'll need a prescription to buy it!

i'd love to print a petition. unfortunately my printer died a few years ago.

i am rather anoyed about hearing about stuff either right before it is passed, or right after.

Drogo - then pass it on via the internet. Tell everyone you know that cares about looking after their health naturally.

If this thing is so good for us, why haven't we heard about it on the news or in the papers?

BTW spyman.ca is wonderful - they dissect the news and then have guest speakers almost every night to discuss different topics. Again - stuff you'll never hear on mainstream media: www.spyman.ca. Sunday through Wednesday nights around 10 p.m. eastern (varies sometimes, so check website).



[edit on 29/4/05 by AlwaysLearning]

You have voted Skadi_the_Evil_Elf for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Very well said my friend. Couldn't agree more. There's a place for everything and if someone chooses to add to their health by taking vitamins etc., I say more power to them!

I, for one, will be stocking up on all my fav's before July! B*stards!

I believe many if not most people could avoid a number of health problems by either eating all of the proper foods (yeah, you probably need to act like a doctor to make all of these choices) or by taking vitamins with a proper dosage. Drug companies or some of the greedy executives have come up with this clever plan to ban all supplements it sounds like in the EU and other places such as Canada it sounds like. They cleverly worded the legislation I believe to make the cost of "proving" something is safe to eat so expensive that only big drug companies can afford the cost. Thus everyone will become a criminal for taking vitamins or start having health problems. With health problems the only thing you can take will be from a drug company. Sounds like greed is winning the game at the expense of the people's health. If a substance is harmful, I believe people and agencies should declare warnings and if harmful enough, ban that substance. Banning everything takes away the people's right to choose.

I don't have that much faith in the medical establishment either. When I go to a doctor, I have basically already diagnosed the problem ahead of time. I only go if I have something I can't figure out that stays longer than a day or two or I need a prescription. I definitely want my right to choose to take vitamins and/or supplements without a doctor's prescription. When I do go to the doctor, they ask, "what is wrong with you?" Basically they are asking what I already know. I have so many drug reaction side effects to prescribed drugs it is not funny at all. I definitely prefer to take natural substances and don't need or want a doctor to take vitamin E, C, etc. This legislation is bad news for everyone that has a brain and wants to take care of their own health without paying big drug companies.

I would not be surprised if the price of vitamins here in the US increases due to the increased demand from Canada or overseas. I suppose if a small company was located overseas, the supplement might not be available here either after the business was shut down because only the big drug companies can afford the cost to prove a substance is "safe".

Sure their may be snake oil peddlers out there. But I do know from personal experience, diet and supplementation can work. Do your homework and move toward a natural diet with "real food" in it for one thing. That's not to say you've got to have a textbook perfect diet. I like beer, so I drink some sometimes. But I have cut out a good portion of sugar and junk from my diet, and I rarely use a fake sweetener. I do not trust fake sweeteners. And I've added some effective supplementation.

Some of the creepy folks in the Pharmacy industry seem like they aren't going to stop untill they rule the nutritional industry. We are screwed if that happens, then it's their choice and not yours as to what you get as a prescription. See then, if you really needed vitamin E, they could say, "you need our new wonder drug." I'm sorry, but FU to the persons who are behind the evil in the Pharmacy industry. This doesn't mean everyone in Pharmacy, just those who are commiting evil acts intentionally and are hiding the truth. I know there may be those in Pharmacy who have good intentions, so I kind of overlook those folks.

And I do not, I do not, I repeat, I do not need to go to the doctor for Vitamin C. Besides, as I mentioned above, who says the doctor will give me Vitamin C anyway if PharmaWorldOrder (humor) takes over the nutritional industry. Crap, I don't even go to the doctor. Only if I need to. Doctors are valuable, don't get me wrong, they just don't belong in the nutritional field, unless they are knowlegable in the field nutrition. Medicine and nutrition aren't necessarily one in the same. I guess I haven't needed to go to the doctor in years, and I'm healthier than many of my friends who go to this place, especially now that I have changed my diet.

Troy

Here's another excellent thread started about the same time as this one - more information about the WTO agreements and Codex:

WTO thread

This is horrifying in the least and we should all screaming at the top of our lungs about it. As someone else said, they approve and release synthetic drugs before knowing all the negative effects they can have, but they want to totally control our freedom of choice in healthcare through vitamins and other natural remedies.

.
This is just wrong.

You give people all the best clinical information about effects on the label and in literature and then you treat them like they are adults, which btw they are, and let them make their own choices.

If something is not an environmental hazard the government has NO BUSINESS restricting the use by competent adults.

The sheer ARROGANCE of some government treating adults like children and telling them what they can and cannot do just makes me crazy. Look at ALL the stupid things these and every other government does around the world and you know they have little or no business telling people what they can and cannot do.
.