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The transgender con ? Many transgender regret switch

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posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth




Science is always going to evolve because we become better and better at progressing and understanding through experimentation and research.


Amazing how science has progressed to transform men into women and vice versa 🤔... but yet they can't find decent cures for cancer, even with all the billions of research money they get.

Maybe " science" doesn't really evolve, it just protects its cash cows, and money is really the driving force.



Thank big pharma for that and look into vitamin B-17.




posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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Well, apparently I'm too ignorant on this topic to start a thread with my concerns based on confessions of transgendered who felt they wanted to de-transition.

Those with more scientific knowledge of studies and reports seem to think they understand this topic so much better...

So be it.. agree to disagree



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

When one or more posters state there is ZERO evidence of Jesus existing .. and no scientific proof He existed , I call that attacking my religion.

Science can't proove Jesus was God, though we have ancient script telling us of events... yet science can proove that a child can be born in the wrong gender 🙄

Seems like scienctists ( some) are trying to play God again.





It's not attacking your religion when you make a claim that does not have evidence and people point out the fact that there is no evidence. That is not attacking. That is pointing out a faulty assertion where it is due. And you're strawmanning again by saying that science has proven that people are born in the wrong gender. No one here is saying that and no one here has said that. So by saying that we said something we didn't say, you're making your entire post illegitimate as you're making up a problem that no one is arguing against. And there is not evidence to support your religious claims. There just isn't. That's just the simple truth of it. It's not an attack. And even when we've requested evidence pertaining to your religious assertions, you, as always either ignore it entirely by means of deflection, play victim by saying we are attacking/bullying you or you provide a biased article from a religious institution.

You, again are strawmanning by making up an imaginary argument and are arguing against THAT as opposed to arguing legitimate points posters are making. Did you read the actual 2004 scientific report? I don't mind continually asking as you continually ignore the question.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth


I never said that the entire principle was incorrect.


Thank you for qualifying your assertions of incorrectness as you did you not indicate any truth in the OP in any way, shape or form. You have not even acknowledged the truth of transgender regret. We can argue till the cows come home about who and how many regret as opposed to who and how many have no regrets, but the reality is that yes, many transgenders regret the switch.


Had you been reading. I am citing the incorrection and bias found within OP's article. The evidence purported within the actual 2004 scientific report neither proved nor disproved the effectiveness of SRS.


As stated in the article:

The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.



The article in OP misuses the information within the actual report and pushes their agenda that SRS is ineffective. They took a valid scientific report and misrepresented the data within to push their agenda. That is biased.


And by the same exact principle, anyone who uses the information to push the agenda that SRS is always effective and/or never ever ineffective is also misrepresenting the data.


Did you actually read the report? The report, if anything, proves that (at least in 2004 when the study was completed) there are no conclusive or even remarkably good studies that involve this concept.


Already acknowledged. It has also been acknowledged that such studies are virtually always incomplete and therefore inconclusive. Especially in those studies that the participants drop out in large numbers.


And I'm not coming from a 'guilded' high horse. Nice ad hom, there. I was never being insulting.


Yes, you were.


I was merely debating...


In a very rude and insulting manner.


... and asking questions which she continually and profusely ignores. She concocts problems out of nowhere and fabricates arguments, puts words into other posters' mouths and when she is called out on it, she plays victim and claims she is being bullied. And randomly she will bring her religion into it, which I didn't bring up at all.


She answered the questions and stated her case as she saw fit, and her faith is obviously part of that. We don't get to demand the answers we want to hear.


And don't get confused with Op's 'concern for others'. When in other threads she claims these people are filled with demons and their depression and suicidal thoughts are "their own fault" and they need to "grow up". Her words. Her other words include describing trans people as being repulsive and icky.


Oh noes!!! Someone is actually trying to open their hearts and minds to the reality of other folks and have some concern and compassion even when she -- gasp!!! -- might be coming from an entirely different perspective? Oh the horrors of it all!!!

(Bravo for the OP!)


So before you start making assumptions about myself, when all I'm doing is calling OP out on her unfounded nonsense, you would see that i'm not being biased. I'm arguing regarding what the ACTUAL report says, not what the article about the report says.


The report is not linked in the article... if you would provide that link, I will read it when I get a chance.


You fail to lend yourself any true validity when you go about randomly saying others are smug out of nowhere.


Actually, I never said you're smug... just sitting on a gilded high horse. Perhaps that's just semantics, but I much prefer to be criticized -- even hated -- for my real faults and not imagined ones.
edit on 19-7-2017 by Boadicea because: formatting... isn't it always???



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: Sheye




I always found it odd that Jesus cast out demons of some of the sick He cured. It makes me curious , and think perhaps we do have some sort of spiritual warfare going on with transgendered souls.


Now you're insinuating that Transgender people may be possessed by demons Jesus ever loving Christ on a cross you just won't stop with the insanity will you. Grrrr...the ridiculousness would almost be funny if it wasn't so personal and infuriating and I'm the "crazy" one, smfh.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth


I never said that the entire principle was incorrect.


Thank you for qualifying your assertions of incorrectness as you did you not indicate any truth in the OP in any way, shape or form. You have not even acknowledged the truth of transgender regret. We can argue till the cows come home about who and how many regret as opposed to who and how many have no regrets, but the reality is that yes, many transgenders regret the switch.


Had you been reading. I am citing the incorrection and bias found within OP's article. The evidence purported within the actual 2004 scientific report neither proved nor disproved the effectiveness of SRS.


As stated in the article:

The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.



The article in OP misuses the information within the actual report and pushes their agenda that SRS is ineffective. They took a valid scientific report and misrepresented the data within to push their agenda. That is biased.


And by the same exact principle, anyone who uses the information to push the agenda that SRS is always effective and/or never ever ineffective is also misrepresenting the data.


Did you actually read the report? The report, if anything, proves that (at least in 2004 when the study was completed) there are no conclusive or even remarkably good studies that involve this concept.


Already acknowledged. It has also been acknowledged that such studies are virtually always incomplete and therefore inconclusive. Especially in those studies that the participants drop out in large numbers.


And I'm not coming from a 'guilded' high horse. Nice ad hom, there. I was never being insulting.


Yes, you were.


I was merely debating...


In a very rude and insulting manner.


... and asking questions which she continually and profusely ignores. She concocts problems out of nowhere and fabricates arguments, puts words into other posters' mouths and when she is called out on it, she plays victim and claims she is being bullied. And randomly she will bring her religion into it, which I didn't bring up at all.


She answered the questions and stated her case as she saw fit, and her faith is obviously part of that. We don't get to demand the answers we want to hear.


And don't get confused with Op's 'concern for others'. When in other threads she claims these people are filled with demons and their depression and suicidal thoughts are "their own fault" and they need to "grow up". Her words. Her other words include describing trans people as being repulsive and icky.


Oh noes!!! Someone is actually trying to open their hearts and minds to the reality of other folks and have some concern and compassion even when she -- gasp!!! -- might be coming from an entirely different perspective? Oh the horrors of it all!!!

(Bravo for the OP!)


So before you start making assumptions about myself, when all I'm doing is calling OP out on her unfounded nonsense, you would see that i'm not being biased. I'm arguing regarding what the ACTUAL report says, not what the article about the report says.


The report is not linked in the article... if you would provide that link, I will read it when I get a chance.


You fail to lend yourself any true validity when you go about randomly saying others are smug out of nowhere.


Actually, I never said you're smug... just sitting on a gilded high horse. Perhaps that's just semantics, but I much prefer to be criticized -- even hated -- for my real faults and not imagined ones.


And that is the problem with the article that it does not reference any actual link to the scientific report. And again, had you actually read my posts, no where was I explicitly arguing in favor that ALL SRS are effective I, myself, commented on the inconclusiveness noted in the 2004 study, so not entirely sure why you're misconstruing my posts. It is your perception that I was being rude. I was not being rude. The article, like you even have pointed out, does not link to the actual scientific report in which they're misrepresenting.

The actual report does not prove or disprove the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of SRS. And I never said that there were not people who had regretted SRS. I was merely pointing to the study and illustrating that furthermore, reasonings behind the regret could, in themselves, be argued.

Pointing out misrepresentation and bias is not being rude or attacking someone. Again, you making such assumptions is ad-homming once more. Show how I was being rude? Assumptions are not a means of proof, they are, not surprisingly, merely assumptions.
edit on 19-7-2017 by ReyaPhemhurth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

If the Christian Taliban had their way....



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Well now gay folk can get married and the world didn't end they have to aim their hate somewhere.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Sheye




I always found it odd that Jesus cast out demons of some of the sick He cured. It makes me curious , and think perhaps we do have some sort of spiritual warfare going on with transgendered souls.


Now you're insinuating that Transgender people may be possessed by demons Jesus ever loving Christ on a cross you just won't stop with the insanity will you. Grrrr...the ridiculousness would almost be funny if it wasn't so personal and infuriating and I'm the "crazy" one, smfh.


No , not saying possessed by demons , more under spiritual oppression of some sort.

I don't think this is true , as in fact, but I question if it could be.

I'm willing to be patient for the answer 😁... I think God will reveal much at some point to all.

I think many of us suffer spiritual oppression in some form RP, so don't take it as a personal insult.
I think the darker spirits are always fighting for control of the human spirit.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: kaylaluv

Well now gay folk can get married and the world didn't end they have to aim their hate somewhere.


It'll always be something because it threatens their limited perspective at what is deemed acceptable and moral in accordance to their religious beliefs.
edit on 19-7-2017 by ReyaPhemhurth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Sheye




I always found it odd that Jesus cast out demons of some of the sick He cured. It makes me curious , and think perhaps we do have some sort of spiritual warfare going on with transgendered souls.


Now you're insinuating that Transgender people may be possessed by demons Jesus ever loving Christ on a cross you just won't stop with the insanity will you. Grrrr...the ridiculousness would almost be funny if it wasn't so personal and infuriating and I'm the "crazy" one, smfh.


No , not saying possessed by demons , more under spiritual oppression of some sort.

I don't think this is true , as in fact, but I question if it could be.

I'm willing to be patient for the answer 😁... I think God will reveal much at some point to all.

I think many of us suffer spiritual oppression in some form RP, so don't take it as a personal insult.
I think the darker spirits are always fighting for control of the human spirit.


You deny actual scientific evidence and reports but you believe in demons, "spiritual warfare" and "spiritual oppression"?



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Thank you for saying what I have a hard time expressing.
I would like the link to the full report Reya is talking about, so have been combing her posts to see if she posted and then get sidetracked.. 😕

Maybe she will post it 😏



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Yes.. I do.. scientific evidence is only based on the physical .

The spiritual exists and is known to affect science... or the physical realms.

Studies have shown that patients in recovery who have been prayed for by others , have improved and healed faster.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

Yes.. I do.. scientific evidence is only based on the physical .

The spiritual exists and is known to affect science... or the physical realms.

Studies have shown that patients in recovery who have been prayed for by others , have improved and healed faster.






In the words of Carlin:
The God excuse, the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument

And though the Arif did the study exclusively for The Guardian, which was already linked within this thread by another poster, more information can be found within this ARIF document:
www.birmingham.ac.uk...

It's in quite a ways, I believe this is a request list with included other ARIF studies. If you navigate to the correct study/request, it goes into more detail regarding questions that were considered as well as further reports that were utilized in their findings. In the end, they could neither prove nor disprove the effectiveness of SRS. Therefore, to post in a way that calls the trans movement a con and to use the feelings of regret that SOME may feel after SRS does not equate to a valid form of conclusiveness. Especially when you can argue all you want WHY these trans may feel regret. I doubt it's because "spiritual warfare" and "demons".

I never once stood here saying that there were not people with regrets, nor did I argue that SRS explicitly aided the trans community. I merely pointed out that what they indeed found was INCONCLUSIVENESS but such data had been misrepresented in the OP article in a way to make it appear as though it explicitly had said that it was ineffective,which was clearly not the case. I will be leaving for now, so when you do not see my reply, it's because i'm no longer online.
edit on 19-7-2017 by ReyaPhemhurth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth




Especially when you can argue all you want WHY these trans may feel regret. I doubt it's because "spiritual warfare" and "demons".


You're misconstruing again. I meant spiritual oppression when they experience the dysphoria... not when they are having regrets... I think some do experience great remorse and repentance within the spiritual realms, and maybe some who have de- transitioned now attend church. Who knows, it's possible.

The link you provided seemed hard to maneuver on my phone.. (as well as difficult to comprehend for me, as I'm not savvy on all those fancy medical terms).. so.. couldn't read it...sorry.. but I take your word for what it says. It's inconclusive..😁

Umm .. what else did I want to say 🤔...think I need a break 😏



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye
Those with more scientific knowledge of studies and reports seem to think they understand this topic so much better...


Sweet zombie Jesus... NO DUH! How is that statement something you'd question the fairness or logic of?

Yes, those with "more scientific knowledge of studies and reports" do understand the topic better than you. People who have dedicated their lives to study something understands that thing better than you. People who have lived experiences on a subject understand that thing better than you. It's how it works!

Subject matter experts know things about the subject!

Good lord...



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:31 PM
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People don't just wake up one day and decide to make a change. They prepare for it do name changes and even before the operation they start the hormones. This isn't a decision that is made without a lot of thought going in to it. In fact seems to average abut 2 percent that's lower then lasik. So more people regret laser surgery than a sex change



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:38 PM
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By the way , while we are establishing what is fact and fiction within the scientific realms, I must wonder why RainbowPhoenix identifies so much with astrology , as she pokes fun at my "sky God".

There is no scientific proof that proves astrology is a valid science or " religion".

There is no scientific proof that transgendered are born into the wrong bodies or that their bodies were meant to be naturally "different".

Something went wrong.. what.. not sure.. I have many questions ... and hopefully someday I get the answers from the sources I trust.

The fact remains , they are humans worthy of love, which in fact we all are, despite our differences.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Sheye
Those with more scientific knowledge of studies and reports seem to think they understand this topic so much better...


Sweet zombie Jesus... NO DUH! How is that statement something you'd question the fairness or logic of?

Yes, those with "more scientific knowledge of studies and reports" do understand the topic better than you. People who have dedicated their lives to study something understands that thing better than you. People who have lived experiences on a subject understand that thing better than you. It's how it works!

Subject matter experts know things about the subject!

Good lord...


Did I say those scientific studies they read are 100% correct?

You done with your little rant now ?

Get it ?.., I don't necessarily buy into all the studies that some members on here have declared as superior truth.



posted on Jul, 19 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Sheye
Those with more scientific knowledge of studies and reports seem to think they understand this topic so much better...


Sweet zombie Jesus... NO DUH! How is that statement something you'd question the fairness or logic of?

Yes, those with "more scientific knowledge of studies and reports" do understand the topic better than you. People who have dedicated their lives to study something understands that thing better than you. People who have lived experiences on a subject understand that thing better than you. It's how it works!

Subject matter experts know things about the subject!

Good lord...


Did I say those scientific studies they read are 100% correct?

You done with your little rant now ?

Get it ?.., I don't necessarily buy into all the studies that some members on here have declared as superior truth.



Of course you don't. Because you are totally comfortable asserting yourself as more knowledgeable than the experts. For no reason other than you feel like it!

Do you do this to your mechanic? Your doctor? Your IT people working on your computer? How do you go through life with that sort of hubris? How do you survive when you dismiss anything, no matter how obviously more authoritative than you, if it doesn't agree with your uninformed opinion?

And why do you even insist on your views? Why do you think it's against your religion? You realize there are trans folk who are Christians, right? Are all of these pastors who accept them, scientists who understand them, and doctors who help them wrong in deference to your uninformed opinion?

How do you even function with that arrogance?




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