When is Kerry Going to Stop Lying and Start Signing?

Every Vietnam vet I know, including myself, wants Kerry to sign his Form 180 (SF-180) to see what he is hiding from everyone. He told Imus: "I have a stack of different material they sent me," Kerry told radio host Don Imus. "Every time they send me something I want to know what they sent me." That's a big lie. If he ever asked for all his military records before, ALL is what he got. They don't send it out sheet at a time. He knows dam* well what's in his records but he don't want anyone else to know. In fact, during the presidential campaign he said ALL his military records was posted on his web sight. Another lie. Here's this morning's latest read on the continuing saga of Kerry's records:

www.newsmax.com...


MR. RUSSERT: Would you sign Form 180?
SEN. KERRY: But everything, Tim…
MR. RUSSERT: Would you sign Form 180?
SEN. KERRY: Yes, I will.

Kerry has said this before, only to say later that all records had been released. The man is just a liar. He lied his way into medals, into political power and into rich marriages.

For those who "forgot" what Hanoi Kerry did in the past... Hanoi Kerry was still a USNR officer while he: gave false testimony testimony to Congress, negotiated with the enemy, helped the US lose a war, abetted in the deaths of millions and created a hostile environment for all servicemen.

www.archive-news.net...

Patriot Petitions has 192, 812 internet users sign a Petition to Investigate and Indict John F. Kerry for acts of treason.

patriotpetitions.us...

Everything you ever wanted to know about Kerry can be found in the links at the bottom of this link:

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Chief
USN retired

I think it is highly likely a less than honorable discharge is what he is hiding from.The brass had to somehow punish the "hero" for his anti-American Hanoi-loving activities. A D.D. and maybe a bust to E-1 seems like the reasonable punshment at the time. Just a slap on the wrist for treason? I agree, but after all Chief, he was a "hero", politically connected antiwar activist, and an officer and a "gentleman". All the other ex-military folk, of either main party, who are involved in politics have released their complete records. It needs to be federal law that anyone in high office MUST release their complete military record. It's good to see that so many others are still interested in Kerry's full disclosure. It's just way too suspcious that his last discharge came during fellow Democrat Clinton's days of influence. The non-vets here may not realize how bizarre it is for any former service member to receive a discharge more than 20 years after their release from active duty. The only kind I have ever heard of being given so many years later were for an upgrade of a less than honorable discharge. I thought the truth may have leaked by now; it hasn't, but I believe it will eventually.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by TheAvenger]

Kerry who?

I'm sorry, that's so 2004. Your ideological hackery was useful LAST YEAR, this yeah it's just sort of blah. You really need to spice up your message more if you expect to cut it in the high stakes world of Angry Republican punditry. You need a new boogeyman, I'd pick the Welsh if I were you. They're shifty and can't be trusted, just look at Richard Burton.

Now you've already made your difference. Bush got elected and he just cut your veterans benefits.

Good going, guy.

Originally posted by brimstone735
Kerry who?

I'm sorry, that's so 2004. Your ideological hackery was useful LAST YEAR, this yeah it's just sort of blah. You really need to spice up your message more if you expect to cut it in the high stakes world of Angry Republican punditry. You need a new boogeyman, I'd pick the Welsh if I were you. They're shifty and can't be trusted, just look at Richard Burton.

Now you've already made your difference. Bush got elected and he just cut your veterans benefits.

Good going, guy.

Just wanted to say excellent post. You've received my last 'Way Above' for this month.

All the useless BS you can drudge up on Kerry doesn't mean a thing anymore like the earlier post said. Who cares now? Who? And besides, everything you are spewing is complete nonsense. The ramblings of a scared Republican.

Kerry fought in the war, he didn't sit in his daddy's pocket while 60,000 of our boys were killed. And, he came back here and after seeing what he did there, protested it, as many veterans did. He's a hero simply for showing up. What's Dubya a hero for? NOTHING!

Drudge up all you want on Kerry. What's in your closet? And you rag on him for marrying a rich woman? That is more pathetic than it is sad!

Originally posted by brimstone735
Kerry who?

I'm sorry, that's so 2004. Your ideological hackery was useful LAST YEAR, this yeah it's just sort of blah. You really need to spice up your message more if you expect to cut it in the high stakes world of Angry Republican punditry. You need a new boogeyman, I'd pick the Welsh if I were you. They're shifty and can't be trusted, just look at Richard Burton.

Now you've already made your difference. Bush got elected and he just cut your veterans benefits.

Good going, guy.

Brimstone735 that, my friend, is how you slam the door on somebody!!
I really enjoy reading your posts. You can run smack like few other.

Peace

Originally posted by brimstone735
Kerry who?

I'm sorry, that's so 2004. Your ideological hackery was useful LAST YEAR, this yeah it's just sort of blah. You really need to spice up your message more if you expect to cut it in the high stakes world of Angry Republican punditry. You need a new boogeyman, I'd pick the Welsh if I were you. They're shifty and can't be trusted, just look at Richard Burton.

Now you've already made your difference. Bush got elected and he just cut your veterans benefits.

Good going, guy.

"Good going", yourself, "guy."
Amazing that virtually all your comments and postings are geared and aimed at those who attack anything resembling the Democrats or when in reference to Bush and Republicans.

As for it being "so 2004." So what? Kerry is still being considered a very possible Democrat Presidential candidate, thus making this topic quite relevant today and the future, wouldn't you say, eh? Let's call it "so 2006" or maybe "so 2008". Because if Mr. Kerry can't get his act together and file/sign that SF180 to everyone's satisfaction, guess what? He'll be questioned and zapped on it in 2006 and 2008. You can be assured that it is not "so 2004".

Keep downplaying the significance of this, really makes no difference to some of you anyhow, because the bottom line was that Mr. Kerry said that he would file/sign a SF180 releasing fully his military records, no less, on TV! Will he show Americans that he is a liar by not doing what he said he will do? If he does not do what he said he would, how will it impact him in 2006 (Senate races) and possibly in 2008? But hey, according to you, brimstone735, Simulacra, Dr. Love, doesn't matter in the end, cause as par, objectiveness aside, you'll vote for a liar, right? Just like the three of you claim American voters did when they re-elected Bush, huh?!

Just sign the damn form already, Mr. Kerry! What you got to hide, huh?!





seekerof

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Seekerof]

Didn't Bush have trouble getting ALL of his complete records also?
I'm with the others, it's over, get over, I don't care!! I know too many people who came back from that war totally screwed up, just like many are coming back from this war....totally screwed up. So, let's say that there is something actually in those records, but it casts a doubt on the integrity of all our servicemen, bringing dishonor to them all.. will you be happy then? For all we know, Bush would use it to justify the crap that took place at the Iraqi prison, see, it wasn't anything we did, our troops were always screwed up in the head! Then well, he'd use public sentiment to justify treating all of our vets plus those who serve today even crappier than he does.

Let it drop please, I don't care!

as posted by dawnstar
Didn't Bush have trouble getting ALL of his complete records also?

Umm, no.
Besides, dawnstar, Bush didn't go on national TV and after being asked three, count'em, three times, and finally respond by simply saying: "Yes, I will."

Quite a distinct difference, huh? But alas, you want to simply dismiss this and drop it? Why? If this had been running on Bush prior to the election, you'd be right in the mix of this. But hey, its after that fact, right, and now its simply lets drop this so I can move on to a Bush-bash thread....





seekerof

All politicians lie, cheat, abuse their positions, etc. Is this news to anyone? It appears the Bush administration is just real good at it...in fact the whole Bush clan have been good at it at least since daddy joined the CIA.....but that's another story and all the Republican, Bush butt kissers are gonna come out and say "here comes another one using this thread to bash Bush."

Bush doesn't need my help to look stupid. Why don't we question the man who's in the office instead of the man who didn't make it? Is this attack on Kerry to take the attention off of Dubya? Lame....

As par, the favored bi-partisan comment of "they all lie and cheat", but back to the regularly watched programming of let's Bush-bash somemore....

Typical rhetoric.

This topic isn't about Bush, its about Mr. Kerry upholding to his word. That word was given on Meet The Press and Mr. Kerry said: "Yes, I will."

That was on a Sunday. He then reiterates it again the following day, on Monday, to Imus:

The full exchange went like this:

IMUS: You also told Tim that you would sign Form 180 releasing all of your military records. Have you done that?

KERRY: Yeah. We're gonna do that. Absolutely, I will. But listen, I also think ...

IMUS: When are you going to do that?

KERRY: As soon as I get, as required by the military, precisely ...

IMUS: Why don't you do it today?

KERRY; Because I have a stack of different material they sent me. Every time they send me something I want to know what they sent me. I'll get it done. ...

IMUS: By noon today?

KERRY: No. But shortly. [END OF EXCERPT]

(As linked in the original post)




seekerof

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by dawnstar
Didn't Bush have trouble getting ALL of his complete records also?

Umm, no.
Besides, dawnstar, Bush didn't go on national TV and after being asked three, count'em, three times, and finally respond by simply saying: "Yes, I will."

Quite a distinct difference, huh? But alas, you want to simply dismiss this and drop it? Why? If this had been running on Bush prior to the election, you'd be right in the mix of this. But hey, its after that fact, right, and now its simply lets drop this so I can move on to a Bush-bash thread....

seekerof

actually, no I wasn't into this, not when it came to bush's records, or kerry's. I don't know if I was even posting to this board at that time, but well, I've been either ignoring the issue (pertaining to both sides), or coming out in defense of the vets. If we want to get real down and dirty, why don't we have military tribunals pull out the records of the swiftboat boys, and kerry, and well, sort it all out. Because, obviously, someone in the bunch is lying, and also lied while in official capacity, since at least one swift boat guy said something completely different way back then than he is at the present time. This would be grounds for military courtmartials, denial of benefits, the whole shabang, would this please you?

Who cares about Vietnam? It was a worthless war that a lot of American men died in for NO REASON! A good lesson in the pass proves our leaders make huge mistakes in foreign policy this is nothing new. So why follow Bush blindly? Think about it.

Yes, lets do just that cause I seriously believe that those Swifties will chew Mr. Kerry, and the couple of swiftboat veterens that stood behind him, apart.

Yes, lets see which are lying!
IMHO, the mere fact that Kerry is 'dancing' around the issue of signing those SF180 to release and thus give full disclosure of his military record shows or seemingly indicates just 'who' has something to hide and just 'who' is lying.

What'cha think?




seekerof

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Seekerof]

as posted by DiRtYDeViL
So why follow Bush blindly? Think about it.

First off, dern good to see you again, DiRtYDeViL.
Secondly, as a staunch proponent for Mr. Kerry that you were, lets flip your question, replace the name 'Bush' with 'Kerry' and ask the same of you?
"Think about it."




seekerof

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Seekerof]

He'll never do it. I believe that Kerry received a less than honorable discharge that was later "fixed" by the Carter administration. A total release of all records via Form 180 would reveal this, ending any hope of another Presidential run and perhaps even putting his Senate seat in grave danger.

[edit on 2/8/2005 by djohnsto77]

I'm amazed at how effective the partisan disinformation campaign really was. Most people actually think it makes a difference which puppet they sponsor! That is so funny to me, so..retro. You guys waving your blue and red banners, c'mon..are you for real? They're subsidiaries owned by the same parent company. With all the information available you'd think more people would be as cynical as I am..

If Kerry were elected the only difference today would be a taller guy in the oval office. They were related by blood, idealogically quite similar if you listened to the debates, belonged to the same clubs in the same school. What makes anybody think Kerry is different than every other professional politician? Bush certainly isn't. I tend to think it's a combination of ignorance and wishful thinking. I hope for the sake of the species it's the wishful thinking that's so prevalent.

Let me try and shed some light on the beast named politics. You have to lie to get elected. There has never been a president who fulfilled every campaign promise. You have to say certain things to certain people so that they perceive you as being in touch with their issues (whether or not you actually are in touch with their issues is irrelevant, that's why you employ speech writers). When speaking at the VFW, you pitch your veterans benefits package, when speaking to a herd of greenpeace activists, best bring out your plan to cut greenhouse emissions, etc. etc. Once you get elected all bets are off, the people who take priority in your mind are those who contributed the most to your election fund because they are the gatekeepers of your re-election.

You see, getting elected is just the beginning. Once a politician begins life anew as a public servant, he must surivive. Like any animal, the politcal animal has a need for self preservation. Even if he had your best interests in mind at the start of his term, he has to make his own political survival the number one priority otherwise all other concerns are moot - You can't help your people if you don't retain office. That's the logic that starts us down a slippery slope from which there is no return. If the politicians are looking out for themselves (ostensibly so they can continue to look out for your interests) how can their job ask them to do what's best for the state, or the individual citizen? It's IMPOSSIBLE to juggle both those agendas with grace. That's the fundamental paradox in politics, the one nobody can solve. Most people don't even understand it because they haven't thought that far ahead. They see a good, healthy looking man. Maybe he talks about a topic that interests them. He uses strong words like values and freedom. You fall for it every time.

FYI I'm not talking out of my ass. I happen to know a little about the game of politics, and have seen the dirtiest side there is to see. Oh the stories I could tell..if I could tell them.

Well, I think that will probably take down at least one swift boat veteran, since it's obvious that he lied, either back then or now.
And, well, I think you might take down Kerry also.
And, well, I think that if we threw Bush into the picture, we might also take him down as far as weather he served the time he was susposed to.
But, well, I think we're gonna draw up alot of crap that has been buried in the minds of our vets for a very long time and we'll hurt alot of other people unintentially.
My father was in WW2, and well, he couldn't stand to have war movies on TV. He came home one day and actually broke the danged TV!!! Why drag out the bad memories?
--------
gee, if I was gonna be politicallly motivated, I think I'd be saying heck, ya, go for it!!! Bring him down, before he gets his foot into the next presidential campaign! Gee, I couldn't vote for him the last time around, and he couldn't get a clear cut victory. unless of course, the vote was rigged, then it wouldn't really matter who runs against the puppet-masters favorites I'd rather see hillary running the next time around, and probably wouldn't be voting for her either!
And, in the meantime, they'd probably uncover some of the darkest secrets our government is hiding about the vietnam war. How can you be sure Kerry wasn't in Cambodia? Maybe he was, under orders to do whatever the government does in those secret coops. Or maybe once they find that the rich and the powerful (reagardless of party affiliations) have been doctoring their records since day one. It could possibly be the deathnail for both political parties.....those poor suicidal parties, who screwed around filling their pockets, and their friends, with our taxmoney and now don't know where to turn, so the the two hands commence to destroy each other trying to divert the blame, never noticing the beating they are taking themselves. Hey, wouldn't care too much if that happened either and the meek libertarians and other third parties inherited the political arena. It would be nice to be able to sit at the tv and get to listen to a new fresh set of lies and deciet! Becuase the old ones are really getting a little lame!

[edit on 8-2-2005 by dawnstar]

What I don't get are those people who say they could 'care less' or comment on issues being 'so 2004', yet take time out of their day to read and continue posting to a thread which they claim to have no interest in.

If you're not interested in the thread, or don't have any comments to bring to the table, then move on to another thread. Life is too short to read, much less concern yourself with issues you find 'boring' or 'out of date'.

Republicans are all up in arms about why Kerry won't sign the form 180, when they should be up in arms about why they voted for a man who got out of serving any real time during the Vietnam war, Lied about being AWOL and Refused to take a Flight Physical.

Bush Refused to Answer where he was for 6 months during Vietnam. He was suppoed to be training in Alabama but instead was AWOL. And also refused to take flight physical.

www.boston.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Hey wheres that governers kid?

What do you mean you won't take the pee test? You can't have any reason not to... can you?

Bush Got out of Going to Vietnam by joining the National Guard even though he Barely passed the exam and was sworn in the Day he applied and bumped to the head of the nearly two year waiting list.

What? 25? Thats barely passing.... Well thats good enough for me. Wink! Wink!

Come on people. There were terrible things done during the Vietnam Conflict. Kerry was there fighting, killing, following orders, while Bush was home not flying, going on dates with the presidents daughter and most like high on drugs.

Come on Bush... Come clean on YOUR record.

Phae