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So wat if Trump colluded with Russia to win?

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posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: RAY1990

Pretty shaky defense to say "conquest stops counting today!!"

Even though that is our claim to sovereignty..

Lol


There isn't a piece of land that hasn't been conquered at one point or another. Unless we are going to trace history back thousands of years, and then somehow decide who gets what land, it's a moot conversation. Indian tribes conquered land from each other non-stop, it's not as if they were these magnanimous people that didn't do the exact same thing that every other people throughout history had done. It's impossible to go back and try to award lands to the original owners, as the original owners also stole it from someone else. Homo-sapiens stole all of their lands from earlier homos, it's just the way the world has always worked. We can stop that now, but it has to start "now", we can't possibly go back in time to do it, it's unfair to current generations who are blameless, and would be the biggest clusterF of all-time if we tried.




posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: TruMcCarthy

Like I say deciding what counts and doesn't concerning ancestral homes is a super interesting question..

If we are saying conquest stops counting today, what about those that just conquered yesterday??

Good luck coming to a definitive answer on that.



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: TruMcCarthy

Like I say deciding what counts and doesn't concerning ancestral homes is a super interesting question..

If we are saying conquest stops counting today, what about those that just conquered yesterday??

Good luck coming to a definitive answer on that.


Well, we either start "today", or never. I think my previous post showed why going back farther than "today" is incredibly problematic. We either need to cut our losses and start "now", or we continue with conquering into the future. I'm just one person who has no control, I'll let humanity decide (by "humanity" I mean the rich and powerful elitists who control humanity).



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

We'll it's just pieces of paper and the agreement of people representing nations that said conquest is no longer legitimate.

It's us that has to uphold that belief.

We will, of that I'm sure. Most people are good when left alone to their thoughts, once they actually consider things.

What my forefathers did has nothing to do with me I'm afraid, apparently my name is tied to the history of where I live, way back to at least the Norman conquest of England.

That being said though, I'm fairly sure at some point one of my ancestors killed someone and pinched his watering hole.



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: TruMcCarthy

It's down to the people.

It's up to them to decide who rules and how, that's why nationalism will always irk me because it's usually someone else's brand and nation.

Ukrainians wanting to be Russians... Why not tell the East and West to do one and form the nation of Crimea, that would be ruled by and for the interests of Crimeans?

Sorry I'm talking stupid... Money dum dum, money is power and power is desire (shakes head) I'm such a dunce at times.
edit on 16-7-2017 by RAY1990 because: More to add



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:24 PM
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originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: TruMcCarthy

It's down to the people.

It's up to them to decide who rules and how, that's why nationalism will always irk me because it's usually someone else's brand and nation.

Ukrainians wanting to be Russians... Why not tell the East and West to do one and form the nation of Crimea, that would be ruled by and for the interests of Crimeans?


Because The People don't actually run shh. The East Elitists don't want to give up control. The Russian Elites don't want to give up control. Obviously I think it would be great if people could choose their own path (which is why I am in favor of Nationalism), but that is the opposite direction the world is heading in, unfortunately. Globalists don't want people of different regions to act in their own interest, they want everyone, of every region, to act in the Globalists interest. If Globalists were good hearted people trying to do the best for humanity, I could get behind that, but they are the worst of the worst only interested in wealth and power for themselves. That's the irony of regular citizens who say they are Globalists, they have a good goal, but have put their faith in evil people.



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: TruMcCarthy

People are too busy trying to pick the right moron to lead them, they never consider leading themselves.

It's not a case of people wanting a simple life either, there is nothing simple about a modern day life.

We are just too lazy.


"If you waste your time a talking
To the people who don't listen
To the things that you are saying
Who do you thinks gonna hear?
And if you should die explaining how
The things that they complain about
Are things they could be changing
Who do you thinks gonna care?
There were other lonely singers
In a world turned deaf and blind
Who were crucified for what they tried to show
And their voices have been scattered by the swirling winds of time
‘Cause the truth remains that no one wants to know"

- Kriss kristofferson
edit on 16-7-2017 by RAY1990 because: Name



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:51 PM
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a reply to: RAY1990

That question deserves a thread...

"When does ancestral home count?"



posted on Jul, 16 2017 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: RAY1990

That's never happened in human history lol..

With no government there is no ownership..

Your property doesn't belong to you, it belongs to your local warlord.

No leaders means no government.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Ignorance and appeasement. Gutless, witless acceptance of drone hood and little else.

Well done, very well done indeed. You have accepted your programming wonderfully.

*Slow clap*

During the Bush administration, both right and left leaning people on this site, regularly came together to condemn the behaviour of Bush and Blair alike, and why? Because we knew in our hearts and our minds that what his administration was doing was wrong, on many, many levels. From war, to infrastructural policy, from economic policy to the first whispers of the possibility of a mass surveillance network, from failure to safeguard jobs, to the creation of Guantanamo Bay political prison and a host of other violations of proper conduct, both right and left would come together to condemn, from their various points of view, these actions and policies.

We came together to mock his attitude to the role he played, when he said "Now, watch this drive" we collectively, together, pronounced him an oaf, a lummox, and not fit to buckle shoes, leave alone lead a nation. And yet, here we have Trump, potentially in collusion with Russia, which in and of itself is only the pinnacle of the total clusterbang that his Presidency has ALREADY been in just the last 177 days, and yet there are those who support him? If Bush had done this, there would be uproar. If there had been the slightest suggestion, during his Presidency and as widely published as this has been, that Obama was colluding with an enemy state, then everyone here would have been up in arms, and rightly so, from ALL quarters.

My question is simple:

What the hell happened to you people?

I am pretty sure I remember a time when the right leaning members of this website, were not simple sycophants, lead by the nose and the testes toward whichever person was the most obnoxious in their dealings, the least noble in the outworking of their ideals, toward whomever would make the most vile hate mongers and liars feel better about themselves by comparison. I am pretty sure I remember when the right at least had elements within it, who would not accept a man like Trump, because those elements insisted on honesty, a dedication to freedom, to liberty and justice, not contempt for the people, for the country, and for honour. I am pretty sure I remember a time when at least some of the right leaners around here considered the standing of their nation and its place in the world as something to be maintained in good order, not at any cost, but only with the most righteous intent AND righteous execution.

So where are all of those individuals now? What happened to them, I ask, because it seems to me that any bunch of crazies who would watch a tycoon piss on the constitution of your country, and collude with an often hostile state behind the back of the citizenry, without some significant concern, and probably far more than that, are not anything like the reasonable, fair, just and noble people I remember from a decade ago.

Some people around here have lost the path entirely. In their eagerness for things to change, they have given themselves over to someone who will not only do all the things that they hated seeing previous leaders do, but do them more blatantly, more callously, with not even the merest hint of decency, or any apparent awareness of how disgusting their behaviour is. Those appeasing this behaviour should be bloody well ashamed of themselves.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Excellent point..

Any other president has already been pulled out of office FROM EITHER SIDE..

Neither bush survives this..

Obama nor Bill could survive it.

Are these politicians who have been waking up at 7am to go fight Russia everyday and have been for decades, really just gonna let this go?!?!

Really??


What does that mean for the future if they tell the world "it is perfectly legal to help foriegn governments rig American elections.. so go knock yourself out...



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Normally I think it is laughable that people are getting paid to spout nonsense on here..

But really what are the other options for someone still denying trump colluded??

They can't really believe their own garbage when it literally came from the horses @$$(mouth?)..

That's just too crazy..

Could just be trolls who like to play devils advocate, but



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Its worse than that JoshuaCox.

They are not denying it. They are simply asking "What of it?".

May as well be the bloody mafia, for all their tact and diplomacy is showing.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: TacSite18

George Washington needed France's help to beat Britain so he can be president.


There is a vast difference between the rebel forces of the Revolution reaching out to form an alliance with Britain's enemy, France, to break away and become a new nation, and Trump's campaign colluding with an enemy / number 1 geopolitical adversary of his / our OWN nation to leverage yourself into power.

But hey, keep telling yourself those very comforting lies - otherwise you'd have to wake up and see the despot-wannabe sitting in the White House.


edit on 17-7-2017 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-7-2017 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Atleast "what of it" is intellectually honest.

I don't agree.. but at least from there you can discuss the topic.


I'm just glad "fake news" died with trumps emails..

That ship has sailed, been torpedoed and sunk to the bottom of the ocean.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

So what if he colluded, ok, lets say we do nothing. But, and now comes the downside to this argument, but here is the problem with that:

We do nothing, end the investigation and say everything is hunky dorey. However, here is the problem that needs to be also addressed, and that is the next time. We do nothing now, and pretty much any major country out there if they collude with a candidate, and that person wins an election, then we can not complain about or investigate cause we did not do it for one person.

Think about it, now you have opened a door legally for not only other candidates to seek out and get aid for any other country, like say China, but now the precedent for such has been set, and all laws and policies are based on precedents.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

Absolutely..

I think it is begging every joe American to think it's legal and a potential payday.



posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 03:06 PM
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I mean SO WHAT right?!?!

George Washington COLLUDED with France against England!!!




posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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That didn't happen.

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And it it was, it's not that big of a deal.

And if it is, that's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did, you deserved it.


The BOLD part is where we are AT. The NEXT phase is the "not my fault" stage. Look SOON for Trump & Co. to start using THAT.




posted on Jul, 17 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
Trump is an American citizen who does what is best for America. Russia will get nothing...they are puppet rulers.


Well, the story goes like this. Way back in time, when The Donald was having financial troubles with his big Real Estate ventures, he turned to the Russian Mafia for a bail out. Trump himself has said publicly, that he has dealt with the lowest of the low, whatever that means. So, we know he met and dealt with some serious underworld figures. He had to, just to build in New York. Now he owed them. Mr Putin, as ex-KGB leader is the head of the Russian underworld. Nothing happens in Russia without Putin knowing and approving. So, when time came to collect, the Russians sent message to Trump that they wanted him to run for President, and the KGB would see to it that The Donald won the elections. Donald didn't want to run, but he had to, because the Russians told him he had to run. So, The Donald did everything he could think of to lose the elections, insulted everybody he could, tried to seem like the ridiculous candidate, even had all the media and former President Obama all saying that this man was "unfit" for the office. But, after all that, The Donald didn't count on the Russians hacking and leaking the info to do more damage to Hillary, than Trump was attempting to heap up on himself.

So, Trump won.

Now that Russia has their man in the White House, the Russians are demanding he do what they want. Trump's spin, of course, is to say that it is better to get Russia to "cooperate" with the US, and leave the past behind, to "move forward", to "change old policy" and give the Russians a new chance to be "friends." But, as far as the US is concerned, Russia was never the "enemy", but they were a decent "sparing partner." And that's the problem, Trump can't really see. The US needs a viable sparing partner, to practice and tune their security skills. Nobody else is up to the challenge.

As far as Russia is concerned, this is part of the "sparing." They put their own man in the White House, and he "lobbies" for them, and that puts them ahead of the game. But, it leave out all the little guys, the agents in the field, the common soldier, the spy who never came in from the cold, all these guys rely on the sparing conflict for their bread and butter.




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