“There are no atheists in hospice nursing.”

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NthOther
Notice how all the Atheists feel the need to come in here and educate everyone on what atheism "really is"?

Because, after all, Atheists are much smarter than the lot of you and they want you to know it.

How that helps anyone or anything other than the Atheist's ego, I have no idea.

Anything to keep the conversation sidetracked.

How do you equate clarifying what atheist actually means - - - to "they think they're smarter - - - and it's ego"?

Have you never had this conversation before? It is quite common to appeal to a low IQ or intelligence for the most frequent reason for believing in "God". I have done it myself more times than I would like to admit. I am not claiming you did that or that it was done in this thread, just pointing out why they might have said that.

I've been on ATS for 10 years. Apparently, so have you.

There's been many threads like this one.

originally posted by: SRPrime

It's a very simple explanation. People are spoonfed heaven and "loved ones!!!!" that when they KNOW they are going to die; their brain starts rationalizing for them. As parts of the brain are affected from dying; they start losing sense of reality and very literally hallucinating. They aren't literally talking to dead people, like -- come on, if they were; they'd be able to tell you information that they could not know, and they can't.

That is where you are absolutely wrong!!

I am telling you right now, there are instances where that is exactly what they are able to do. People that are dead and otherwise "occupied" are able to give information that they absolutely could not have collected through their own faculties unless consciousness was non local or not dependent on any physical interaction. And I do mean dead, not kind of dead or in a coma but dead.

a reply to: VegHead

I lived 5 years as a nursing assistant in long term care. The statistics seem accurate:

89% of the hospice nurses reported patients who experienced a DBC had a peaceful and calm death, with only 40.5% reporting a peaceful and calm death without the DBC.
...
tend to be of short duration, and that in 62% of cases reported in their study the patient died within 24 hours of reporting or showing signs of such a vision

The easiest to describe incident was a lady who didn't speak English.

I came into her room to get her ready for sleep. She was talking to a group of people that I couldn't see. I say group because she would look in one direction while talking, just left of her feet, (she was in bed with the back elevated), then she would pause, change the direction she was looking slightly and start talking again.

I made a respectful bow toward where she was looking and waited. She was done in about 30 seconds, so short duration. Then I got her ready for sleep. Her reactions and interactions were normal and peaceful. She died about 6 hours later.

As for underreported incidents; consider this: Death Bed Communications can also be with living breathing people. The person gains peace by talking to the caregiver or visitor shortly before death. And the rare occasion when the caregiver is greeted with a full smile and "Oh! You're here!", and she sighs her last breath with the smile still on her face.

I wrote a poem Charon On Break

a reply to: VegHead

My step-dad held conversations with his then recently deceased mother. His conversation with her wasn't completely easy to decipher due to the stage of his cancerous dying process, but it was clearly a positive experience for him. He seemed to be amused by their conversation. They were both very much followers of Jesus. His faith was reflected in the way he tried to comfort everyone else as though he didn't need it himself. I guess the Lord let his mother come for him. Maybe he really didn't need our comfort. Jesus already provided it.

As most things in life, you either know it , or you don't.
It is a personal knowledge that cannot be adequately described, because it becomes here-say as soon as the information passes to another person. Is there a God? You bet there is, but don't look for a bearded man in a robe. Look inside your own DNA, like science is showing us more every day.

originally posted by: VegHead
Wow - what an intriguing story. I hope everyone clicks on that link to read your previous post. This was a near death vision (actually I'm not sure if the patient was near death) that gave the patient info she wouldn't have through apparent "natural" means. Thanks for posting that link and sharing your perspective!

Thank you, it was one of those changing moments for me, a moment that had not scientific or medical explanation, that I witnessed with my own eyes and made me more open to the fact that we have a connection to others that go beyond what we can see and hear. I think it's beautiful.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
That is where you are absolutely wrong!!

I am telling you right now, there are instances where that is exactly what they are able to do. People that are dead and otherwise "occupied" are able to give information that they absolutely could not have collected through their own faculties unless consciousness was non local or not dependent on any physical interaction. And I do mean dead, not kind of dead or in a coma but dead.

But this is just your belief, there is no evidence dead people can communicate, receive or send messages. And it's fine you hold such belief, but evidence actually points to the brain causing hallucinations. Like I said before, it's part of the dying process.

I am open to all possibilities (with good proof of course).

a reply to: VegHead

My great uncle on his deathbed (at age 98) pointed and said he was seeing the virgin Mary riding a bicycle.
Maybe the fact that he was a Roman Catholic had anything to do with it. Anyway, we blamed the morphine.

My mom on her deathbed seemed to see something beautiful as she was breathing her last breaths. She didn't say anything though.

My dad, who died exactly (to the minute) 2 weeks later, was mostly in a lot of pain and confused due to the toxics in his blood. When he spoke, he was mostly apologetic.
The fact that he died exactly 2 weeks after my mom proves to me that there is something more than what we can normally observe.
Knowing my mom (romantic, sentimental writer) this was her giving a sign that she was there at the moment he died. I like to believe she was there to pick him up and take him to wherever it is you go to after death. It is so much better than thinking it's just a coincidence.

I am happy you made this thread OP.
Yesterday a colleague of mine gave me the scientific explanation of the "light at the end of the tunnel " experience. That was a real downer. Like hearing that Santa doesn't exist. (Or does he..)
So I guess I take after my mom. I like to have some mystery in my life.

a reply to: VegHead


Very interesting, my sister told me before my father died he mentioned something about the void and how there must be something more, he was certainly an atheist, well at least till his final moments.

My sister's a nurse and has witnessed elderly people dying. Once she was wiping the brow of her patient who was going through the death process. Suddenly the glass of water at her tableside started rippling, unnaturally so. My sister couldn't feel any vibrations through the floor the room was completely still except for this water shaking about. Suddenly the water stopped and the old lady died. My sisters a very level-headed atheist but she is adamant that something otherworldly happened that night.

My father stopped by a wreck on the side of the road in the middle of a desert highway. The driver had a front on collision with a truck only moments before. The driver was pinned in the crushed car. My dad grabbed his bloodied hand and told him "you're going to be alright mate. The ambos are coming for ya. Stay with me". The driver took his last ragged breath and died.

While there are accounts of DBEs for palliative care patients I've never read any for people suddenly, fatally injured in an accident

originally posted by: VegHead
a reply to: Ridhya
Excellent points... she did say a few saw "Jesus" but the vast majority who report DBVs to her see dead loved ones. Also in a few cases she said people saw someone they did not recognize at all. Of course many aren't speaking at all and do not have an apparent DBV.

Seeing dead loved ones at the point of death isn't really in line with Christian beliefs... but I agree that this has become a Western cultural "expectation". Along the lines of seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. The brain could subconsciously pull from these cultural references at the point of death as a coping mechanism.

But if our brains and bodies are simply being kind to us to help us deal with the dying process, you still have to wonder why? This serves no biological advantage that would allow natural selection to act upon it... right?

I was rushed into emergency surgery and I had out of body experiences floating above my bed. I also fell through the tunnel of light. The thing was I wasn't dying just giving birth and needed a caesar. This makes me believe that these particular NDE are a biological process.

Biologically speaking extreme aging is a modern occurrence; evolutionarily speaking old people should died a hellova lot sooner than they do; but by advent of modern medicine and artificial care they live into their late 80s and 90s. Maybe the DBC have socially evolved from this for the family who are spending resources and time on a non-reproductive, person which is taking that care and resources away from offspring. It allows them to emotionally recover sooner and go back to focus on raising their children who will carry on the genetic torch.

Theoretically speaking, some researchers now believe that homosexuality could be a social evolution when populations get too high to prevent breeding ourselves out of existence. I'm still on the fence with that one but it's interesting nevertheless

a reply to: Kalixi

Biologically, evolutionary and theoretically speaking..... haha man I;m tired need to get some zzzz

originally posted by: Annee
I am atheist.

Atheist simply means "Lack of believe in a God".

It does not mean anything else. Like not believing there is more going on then we can see.

I believe consciousness is energy. That the energy consciousness continues after physical death.

If I saw a past relative/friend at my death time - - I would still be atheist.

What about if your relative said and this is Jesus, would you still be an atheist?

originally posted by: mrperplexed
a reply to: mysterioustranger

And yet if there is a God he or she or it ignores our plea's and allows us to get maimed, disfigured, PTSD'd and killed... Awesome....

This God allows us to choose everything we do. Then, when we freely accept him it is better than with a 'knife at your throat' like some god's require their followers to do.

That means that bad people can do what they want too, and good people can do what they want. It is the order for life to run it's course. Things have to happen we like as an individual for all to have free will. Because of some others' choices, some people suffer.

Example might be the choice to stop DDT that allowed millions to die from Malaria when the debate was not settled as to DDT's Eagle egg story. Turns out other issues caused the egg problem.

Another example, the guy who makes a bad drug deal and shoots up a neighborhood to get the bad guy who stole from him, hurts an innocent child. All choices have consequences. Not being good has obvious anecdotes for why one should strive to be good and also kind at all times. Blaming God for your freedoms is not the answer.

a reply to: VegHead

What an excellent thread!

S&F

In my personal opinion, these DBV's are the result of the body producing the compound Dimethyltriptamine.

This is a very powerful hormone that we produce, they are not exactly sure why or when, but there is a theory that this occurs when we are born and when we die. It is also produced, naturally enough, when a near death experience has occurred.

To me I it is the mechanism in which a infinite spirit incarnate and then leaves the world of matter. I hope to much more studies done along these lines, there is a reason that in the Tibetan culture, preparation of death is considered so valuable.

It is like waking up from a dream and only naturally enough we would have assistance in such a moment when fear is at its highest.

a reply to: VegHead

My girls cousin used to work in a hospice and her story of why she quit was that she went to work one day and the dress that she chose to wear that morning was identical to the dress that one of the ladies there was wearing who passed away that day. She said it freaked her out and didn't want to go back.
I cannot say that this story is true 100% Nor do i know its significance if it were but i thought id share the only hospice story i have.
btw nice post. I enjoyed the read. Very interesting.

a reply to: elementalgrove

So it's a theory that this is released at birth, or has that been confirmed? I don't know much about this subject.

If true, it's really interesting to think of what visions newborns would be having... I mean, they don't have any context so everything is freaky and new to them... so a hallucinogenic hormone seems unnecessary. Reality is strange enough. LOL ... but still, interesting bookends on birth and death as periods of transition.

a reply to: VegHead

It is still a theory, but my gut instinct tells me to believe it.

A great article to look over.

Dr. Rick Strassman, a Stanford University graduate with a specialization in psychiatry and psychopharmacology, is the torchbearer behind the idea that '___' is released when we are born and when we die. He took on a five year project to investigate the effects of '___', and administered about 400 doses of the drug to nearly five dozen heavily pre-screened volunteers. Throughout his work, him and his team coined a new rating scale called the Hallucinogen Rating Scale (HRS), which has been widely accepted throughout the international research community — over 45 articles have documented its use as a solid instrument for measuring psychological effects.

Interestingly, based on his extensive research and observations, Dr. Strassman hypothesizes that when a person is approaching death or possibly even just in a dream state, the body releases relatively large amounts of '___'. The majority of his volunteers reported profound encounters with non-humans and deep spiritual experiences, and Dr. Strassman believes that '___' could explain some of the wild imagery described by survivors of near-death experiences as well as those recounting their dreams.

However, although this hypothesis has yet to be confirmed with scientific evidence, Strassman’s research did produce some striking facts about '___'.

Enjoy!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Annee

I am agnostic, and certainly not religious in the organized religion sense, but I am totally open to the idea that consciousness exists beyond the physical.

Thank you.

I've had too many "experiences" since first memory to discount that there isn't more going on.

There are many Spiritual Atheists. Atheists that believe consciousness continues after physical death.

Not understanding what atheist actually means, is the problem with those who think these experiences mean belief in a God.

I will pray for you. To be a spiritual atheist and believe in spirituality without God is tragic.

To recognize spirituality and be flippant to it's source is dangerous to ones soul but it is certainly easier.

99% of the times when a person dies, this person will be greeted on the other side by loved ones. Now these spirits on the other sides will take on the physical appearance they had held in their physical life so as to assure a pleasant reception for the new arrival, to make them feel at ease. The new arrival will get familiarized with it's new state of being step by step. If familiar spirits are not available, a guide might take on the appearance of a loved one.

In this new state of being (actually not new at all, but from the physical point of view it might appear so) you will do whatever it is that you want. Some decide to go back into physical reality becasue they feel it serves them to do so, in fact, most of us do. Most of us have had hundreds of incarnations on this earth, it is a collective experience, and we have all agreed to it.

Death is the experience of homecoming, truly it is not to be mourned but to be celebrated. You flow back into your original state, and it is a glorious state.

a reply to: VegHead

Great thread topic! I think the very first thread I ever made was asking for more information about this very topic. It's elusive, but there is so much info out there once you find it.