Mattis Tried To Kill Plan To Bar Transgender Surgery For Troops

a reply to: infolurker

Then just say you believe transgenderism is a mental issue and that gender reassignment is an elective process.

No need to try and dress it up by using a faulty argument couched in statistics that don't apply to the current discussion in any way, such as trying to use VA numbers.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Anyone going through hormone therapy will be undeployable. That's a matter of policy as a medical treatment. Anyone who has surgery won't be able to deploy for several months or even up to 2 years.

That is something that affects readiness.

What is it that you think the military is for? It isn't supposed to be all inclusive. Never was.

Your appeal to authority fallacy is not the same thing as being right.

a reply to: projectvxn

For me, that's where the sticking point is. The transitional process isn't, or shouldn't be in my opinion, an overnight thing. It takes months, if not years, from start to finish. Weekly injections of hormones for who knows how long? Daily pill consumption for who knows how long? Mental health checks before, during, and after the process.

We both know there's a pretty definitive list of things that will put one into non-deployable status. Mental health, the need for frequent clinical visits, and surgery are all front and center on that list. It's entirely possible for a person to join the military, go through recruit training, go through MOS training, and then spend literally the rest of their enlistment period in non-deployable status due to transitioning.

To me, it doesn't matter how one personally feels about transpeople. And it sure as # doesn't matter what problems the VA has.

But force readiness? Yea, that matters.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It's entirely possible for a person to join the military, go through recruit training, go through MOS training, and then spend literally the rest of their enlistment period in non-deployable status due to transitioning.

Not a very good investment for the DOD.

I don't have a personal problem with transsexuals. But at the end of the day they have a reality of life that is NOT compatible with the demands of military service.

A soldier who can't deploy from the get go is not an asset to the service.

My problem with this is, how effective can a soldier be having to dilate their fauxgina multiple times a day. Risk of infection and hair removal (look it up), having to go back in often for corrective stitches, treatments for infection. Not to mention additional mental health therapy sessions involved with gender reassignment surgery.

This is a can of worms that will only weaken the military. Not to mention the cost to tax payers. Who's to say that after the surgery that the soldier wouldn't immediately qualify for a medical discharge due to complications in a very risky cosmetic surgery? It's not a good idea to do this just to make someone "happy".

If they must provide this surgery for transgendered soldiers, then it has to be done at the end of the soldier's military contract in order to not effect the battle ready status and reliability of the individual soldier.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Shamrock6

It's entirely possible for a person to join the military, go through recruit training, go through MOS training, and then spend literally the rest of their enlistment period in non-deployable status due to transitioning.

Not a very good investment for the DOD.

I don't have a personal problem with transsexuals. But at the end of the day they have a reality of life that is NOT compatible with the demands of military service.

A soldier who can't deploy from the get go is not an asset to the service.

Agreed.

originally posted by: infolurker
Go pay for your own insanity on your own dime.

Perharps the $350 billion Trump received from giving weapons to the Saudis could cover it? The same weapons which will eventually maim our troops can also pay for their surgery! How wondrous!



a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
How awful! A person taking advantage of work benefits. I am in disbelief, I am!

a reply to: projectvxn

I remember a time when military men and women with non-deployable medical issues received medical discharges .

a reply to: whenandwhere

I remember a time when military men and women with non-deployable medical issues received medical discharges .

They still do.

I was discharged after a spinal injury in Afghanistan.

I'm still upright and I can still walk. But that doesn't mean I can perform my duties in combat anymore.

I can't imagine why we would be ensuring the presence of hundreds of undeployable soldiers as a matter of policy when the therapies and surgery are so hard on the body.

It isn't something you can go to the gym to cure or take a weekend to deal with. Transitioning is extremely hard on the body and causes all kinds of mental and emotional instability, especially at the height of the treatment.

Makes me wonder if the people who made this policy actually have any transgender friends.

originally posted by: Sheye
What concerns me is how many transgendered join up to the services not because they truly want to serve their country, but in fact want the free surgeries and hormone treatments.

Those that use the services for their own selfish agendas need to be weeded out in my opinion .

And I'm sure both Mattis and Trump are nice guys. I think Mattis made a mistake though. Federal money should not be used for sex changes.

You seem to miss the point; people don't want to sign up for the armed services and they use elective surgeries and medical care/treatment, education and tuition, housing and family insurance plans as bribes to enlist new soldiers. They don't want to weed them out; they want more of them, that's what you don't get.

As long as you can serve you're treated to everything that you basically want until you're injured and can no longer serve, than you're basically dead to them. This is why we have VA clinic issues with amputees and what have you -- if you're still of value even with the amputation; you'll end up with a state of the art prosthetic, all robotic and everything, but if you're no value after the amputation; you'll be lucky to get them to fit you with a hook -- you'll have some cheapo plastic hand thing and a cereal box medal to pin to your chest for them blowing your arm off.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: whenandwhere

I remember a time when military men and women with non-deployable medical issues received medical discharges .

They still do.

I was discharged after a spinal injury in Afghanistan.

I'm still upright and I can still walk. But that doesn't mean I can perform my duties in combat anymore.

I can't imagine why we would be ensuring the presence of hundreds of undeployable soldiers as a matter of policy when the therapies and surgery are so hard on the body.

It isn't something you can go to the gym to cure or take a weekend to deal with. Transitioning is extremely hard on the body and causes all kinds of mental and emotional instability, especially at the height of the treatment.

Makes me wonder if the people who made this policy actually have any transgender friends.

Breast augmentation is a few week recovery, hormone therapies aren't that hard on your body, and most mental health issues with transgendered people does not come from the surgery, or what ever convinces them that it's for them; it's the ridicule and hate from people who refuse to accept it as a legitimate decision.

You make me wonder if you ever knew a trans-gendered person before..... because you're clueless.

a reply to: SRPrime

As long as you can serve you're treated to everything that you basically want until you're injured and can no longer serve, than you're basically dead to them.

Sounds like those enlisted with transgender issues don't spend alot of time serving due to medical procedures and therapy, so your argument doesn't make sense.🤔

a reply to: SRPrime

Breast augmentation is a few week recovery

Gender reassignment goes a wee bit beyond a boob job.

You make me wonder if you ever knew a trans-gendered person before..... because you're clueless.

You're evidently even more clueless.

I only know one person going through transition , and I am torn on this as well.

If somebody wants to swear the oath and put on the uniform I will cheerfully serve alongside them, BUT I read an article in the Air Force Times about the first Trans enlisted Aircrew member doing transsexual awareness training at McConnell I think it was.

As soon as this person started the medication she became long term DNIF (duties not including flight), and as others mentioned cannot deploy. To add on to the insult she is in a critically manned career field and now will not be able to do her job for possibly up to 2 years. (Longer if the medical side drags their feet on clearing the usage of the drugs when combined with a flying position)

How is this fair to everyone in her crew position, or even in the unit this person will continue to get rave reviews on her EPR (because the regs regarding Long term dnif do not differentiate beyond did this person cause the condition through stupid choices, Like drunk driving and a bad wreck, or jumping off the third floor of the dorms shattering bones in their legs, or something beyond their control/natural occurrence Pregnancy and such ) while sitting in an office working 9-5 Monday through Friday, never working exercises, never being separated from family.

It is not right that they (I do not care about how few their are) get special treatment, I think at least anybody that starts the transition in a career field that could keep them from doing the job they were hired to do, they should be forcibly cross trained into a job where they can continue working through out.

Neither the government nor insurance companies should pay for this procedure. It should be completely out-of-pocket.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

307,000 veterans may have died awaiting Veterans Affairs health care, report says
www.cnn.com...

More Than 100 Veterans Died While Waiting for Care at Los Angeles VA
freebeacon.com...

Hundreds of veterans died waiting for care at Phoenix VA hospital
www.foxnews.com...

www.npr.org...
Inaccurate VA wait times preclude thousands of vets from getting outside care, probe finds

Despite $10B 'Fix,' Veterans Are Waiting Even Longer To See Doctors
www.usatoday.com...


Now, how about we concentrate efforts on life saving medical procedures?

BTW - this is a great example of "government run healthcare" that half the country thinks should be forced upon us.

no it isn't, see the nhs.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Probably thinks it's an outpatient procedure like a vasectomy.

a reply to: projectvxn

Bag of frozen peas and some Motrin, voila! You're a lady now.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

US tax payers should not be forced to pay for cosmetic surgeries and sex change, they are personal choices not life saving procedures.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Anyone willing to give their life to protect our country deserves not just ANY medical care but FREE medical care.
What the US does to it's troops is disgraceful.

Medical care and sex change are not the same