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France and Germany to develop new European fighter jet

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posted on Nov, 18 2018 @ 04:59 AM
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I have been mulling partners. There are two type. The first brings cash, and that's what I guess Airbus and Dassault are interested in at this stage. Basically "buy in" to their programme. Then there are partners that actually bring something useful to the table from a technical or practical perspective. No other country in Europe save the UK has that type of usefulness. Airbus needs the UK but the UK does not necessarily need Airbus.




posted on Nov, 22 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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France, Germany Agree on Next Step for Fighter Jet Program

France and Germany have reached an agreement on the next steps in a joint program to design a next-generation combat jet, French Defence Minister Florence Parly said on Tuesday.

The jet, due to go into service in 2040, is expected to replace the Rafale, built by France's Dassault Aviation, and Germany's Eurofighters, made by a European consortium.

Parly said on Twitter that the agreement included the planned launch of a prototype or demonstrator of both the aircraft and the engine by the middle of next year.

"Decisive step today with the agreement to start the architecture and design studies and the launch of demonstrators (aircraft and engine) by mid-2019," Parly tweeted. "It is advancing."

Germany and France signed a memorandum of understanding in April and agreed that France would take the lead. The two governments have been at odds about future exports, while the companies involved are fighting over leadership of the system to integrate the jet with drones and other weapons.

Dassault and Airbus will shortly submit an unsolicited proposal for initial conceptual work on the new fighter jet to German and French officials, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters last week.

The two companies agreed in principle in April to work together on the program, but say they need early funding so they can start work on new technologies required.

France's Safran and Germany's MTU Aero Engines are expected to join forces to develop the engine. French electronics firm Thales and European missile maker MBDA are also seeking a stake.

Safran is expected to take the lead in the development of the engines with MTU as the subcontractor, French business newspaper La Tribune reported on its website on Tuesday.

A French military official told the International Fighter conference in Berlin last week that the two governments hoped to conclude an initial contract in January.

Bruno Fichefeux, head of future combat air systems at Airbus, told the conference he expected conceptual work on the program to begin soon, "bilaterally or with Spain."

Germany, France and Spain have completed separate studies on the next generation fighter.

La Tribune said Spain, which had been in discussions with a rival project launched by Britain in July, will join the Franco-German program once it is stabilized and will sign a letter on intent to do so in the first quarter of next year.

www.usnews.com...
edit on 22-11-2018 by ForzaFLNC because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2018 @ 02:11 AM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert
I think every partner and potential partner to Tempest and FCAS (or whatever they are calling themselves today) realizes that if they want a healthy, sustainable, and affordable large-scale program "there can be only one". The rest is just a race to see which side can grab the most partners to commit first and force the other program to submit and the battle over workshare.

Think of how much cheaper EFA and Rafale would have ended up if they hadn't divorced. Not a knock on Rafale, which I think is superior to the Tiff in a few ways, but a lower unit cost would have driven exports for the original combined program. France now gets essentially 100% of 165 Rafale airframes instead of 30% of a combined program acquisition of 800 (+ whatever could be bought inside or outside the consortium for the same money based on savings and lowered unit price) which could still be healthy moving forward from today in 2018.

Noone wants a repeat.



276 Rafale have been ordered, built in one country with a 100% French plane (Dassault, Safran, Thales)

623 Eurofighter have been ordered, built in four country



posted on Nov, 22 2018 @ 04:50 AM
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Dassault run some pretty damn good design software plus a rich history of aircraft design.Be interesting how much they have gleaned from other Stealth projects.



posted on Nov, 22 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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t276 Rafale have been ordered, built in one country with a 100% French plane (Dassault, Safran, Thales) 

623 Eurofighter have been ordered, built in four country



Which is a run of over 900 in a combined program. Possibly more as substantial costs savings would have permitted lower program cost and unit price lending itself to further commitments. France/Dassault would be a prime in a combined program wherein they would still have substantial workshare.



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 12:49 PM
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Germany and France will welcome Spain as a full partner in their program to develop a next-generation air combat system, and expect to sign an agreement finalizing the move at the Paris Air Show in June, a German government source said on Wednesday.

Paris and Berlin initially planned to offer Spain observer status on the program, but Spain this week formally asked to participate as a fully fledged partner, which will also require certain financial outlays.


Supposedly to be signed publicly at the Paris Airshow 2019.


www.reuters.com...



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: anzha

www.thedrive.com...

And somehow I missed the Netherlands joining Team Tempest over Team FCAS. The Italians /are/ working on the Tempest as contractors, but may or may not buy any (no word from the Italian gov).



posted on Feb, 9 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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Looks like the development has officially started.

A €65 million ($74m) two-year contract to Dassault Aviation and Airbus for a Joint Concept Study (JCS) has been signed a couple of days ago.

The French also granted Safran a 2019-2024 contract of €115 million ($131 million) to develop a new combustor and high-pressure turbine.

This summer new contracts are expected to be issued for engine and airframe technology demonstrators.

A first prototype could fly around 2025-2026.



posted on Feb, 9 2019 @ 06:27 PM
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Still 20th century tech with combustion chambers and turbines.Newer materials probably but geez.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 01:15 PM
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posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: anzha

Spain is working an interesting deal with Korea too. They want to sell up to 13 of their 27 A400Ms. They're in talks with Korea to sell 4-6 of them at 15% of what they'd cost, and in return Spain would get 30 KT-1s and 20 T-50s.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Spain decided they didn't need so much heavy lifting?
The KA-1 is less than the 1940's P51 Mustang but with a low maintenance P&W turboprop.
Not sure what Spain was thinking in the first place?



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: Slichter

They're trainers. They need training aircraft, and this is a great way to get them cheaper than normal.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Spain is also joining FCAS. Apparently. the LOI is intended to be signed on Feb 14.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: anzha

I suspect the money they make, and the money they save on the deal with Korea will go into that.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

For new recruits something that light with over 1900 horsepower will give them quite a lot of kick in the pants for the dollar spent with that motor. I loved how the old P51 Mustangs sounded though.



posted on Feb, 11 2019 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: Slichter

It's a nice lead in trainer to start on, similar to the T-6 Texan, or one of the Pilatus trainers.



posted on Feb, 12 2019 @ 09:53 PM
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SO Is it an indictment on the A400 or was it a political move to buy so many int he first place by the previous government.

If they do not need them then its a fantastic deal. But the the initial projected numbers of the A400 was never going to cover the need for lift in the EU, this makes it less likely.

Is Spain giving up older airframes or new ones that they deferred delivery on?

Also, there seems to be a whole host of issues with its capabilities that have yet to be sorted out? Its hard to tell. Its notionally a tactical airlifter but if it cannot perform that role then what? Its limited as a strategic air lifter

The deal aside which is a screaming good one, is it overkill for SK? they seem better suited for the Embraer KC-390 or the Kawasaki C-2 IMHO
edit on 2/12/19 by FredT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2019 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: FredT

They'll never buy the C-2, no matter how well it would slot in. And, while I agree on the KC-390, this deal will get them aircraft sooner than the -390.



posted on Jun, 17 2019 @ 07:15 AM
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There are some fresh pictures from Le Bourget 2019 showing what seems to be a full scale mock-up with diverterless inlets and a v-tail:

www.flugrevue.de...

It reminds me of the McDonnell Douglas / British Aerospace / Northrop Grumman JAST concept, but with two engines.




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