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Ice Director Says There Could Be More Than 12 MILLION ILLEGALS In US

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posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:20 AM
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originally posted by: EternalShadow
Is that right....You got a source to back that up?

Illegals are Constitutional protected...I must have missed that breaking news story.


It's been that way for over 150 years.


Constitutional Rights

Even if you're in the United States without permission or proper immigration documents, various sections of the U.S. Constitution apply to you. There is a particularly important provision of the Fourteenth Amendment stating that, "No state shall . . . deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

An undocumented immigrant is definitely a "person." In brief, this means that you are owed such procedural rights as a jury trial and the right to defend yourself against the charges if arrested; and if someone sues you over a civil matter, that you have the right to receive notice and to defend yourself in court. Source




posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
I hope US Citizens who are part a minority and get a concealed carry permit so they can put a bullet into any overeager dip#s.


Couldn't agree with you more aside from your reason to shoot someone. Anyone that easily triggered shouldn't be able to legally pull one, much less conceal carry.

However, every law abiding citizen, properly trained, should be able to conceal carry if they so choose. I'll agree with that all day.

edit on E31America/ChicagoThu, 13 Jul 2017 07:38:30 -05007amThursdayth07am by EternalShadow because: add



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That's a lawyers opinion. Got any case law to share instead?

Don't waste your time posting any precedent from sanctuary cities or states. That's unlawful already.


edit on E31America/ChicagoThu, 13 Jul 2017 07:46:53 -05007amThursdayth07am by EternalShadow because: add



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: EternalShadow
That's a lawyers opinion.


Do you honestly think they are not basing their solicitations on hundreds of cases of legal precedent?


Got any case law to share instead?


Yeah, see Zadvydas v. Davis for a recent case and Yick Wo v. Hopkins for one of the cases that began the legal precedent. This is settled Constitutional law despite any remonstrations you may make.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Is call basic human rights or bill of rights every human being is entitle to them, but constitutional rights as under our constitution is only the right of an American citizen.

The fourteenth amendment is been used by pro illegal immigrants advocates to said that illegals have constitutional rights but that is not true and easily dismissed under scrutiny




What is the 14th amendment to the US constitution?

The 14th amendment was adopted in 1868, after the American Civil War, and addresses the equal protection and rights of former slaves. The 14th amendment limits the action of state and local officials. In addition to equal protection under the law to all citizens, the amendment also addresses what is called "due process", which prevents citizens from being illegally deprived of life, liberty, or property.


14 amendment text.


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.[1]


en.wikipedia.org...

It very clearly aid US citizens no illegal ones.

The supreme court has not rule on this interpretation but only once, base on the rights of children from salves



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Marge6043 took the fingers out of my keyboard.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: marg6043



It's settled Constitutional law that all people in the United States have some basic Constitutional rights. There have been hundreds of cases based on the legal precedent set by various Supreme Court cases dating back to the 1800's.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:51 AM
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Just a quick thought, it's hard for me to consider most of these "illegal" persons. Most of them are Native American in my opinion, whether that be Native north or Native south, their ancestors were here long before most of todays current USA "Americans" & have always been here. European people came here a long time ago, and took over and drew some lines in the sand and said YOUR tribes stay on that side now & then got to quickly colonizing and killing the traditions and languages of the tribes that were on "their" side.

Idk. I get there are serious financial issues surrounding this topic with the way things currently work and function but it just seems #ty to me to tell someone, hey we are all stuck on this planet BUT YOU you're not allowed over HERE. Even though you were allowed over here before our great great grandpappys came over and stuck it to you.

It just troubles and perplexes me, but I also understand that with this colonization there's ways it works and ways it doesn't and the government's going to do whatever it does and it's out of my hands. Am I going to go out of my way to report anyone? Hell no. I won't. I will not. I refuse.

Now if I see someone getting sexually assaulted or physically harmed, hell yeah I'm speaking up, but I'm not disrupting a family just because of borders, I won't do it.


-Alee
edit on 7/13/2017 by NerdGoddess because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: EternalShadow

Then I suggest you file an amicus brief and take your argument to the Supreme Court when you can prove to them that over 150 years of their rulings are incorrect.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Those cases that has been won by illegal immigrants has been base mostly on the rights of the illegal minors and their rights to enjoy the same basic privilege of legal citizens, the main issue is the protection under the states laws.

You are right, is been challenges using the 14 amendment for the rights of illegals, judges and the individual state laws play a big role on the outcome

Obama change some of the rights for illegal citizens children under the dream act.

None of the children that were granted protection can be deported as it stand today.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:08 AM
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12 million???

Hmmm...that's surprising...

I figured there are 12 million illegals in just Texas...let alone the whole United States.

-Chris



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes I read them, the one that stand the first by Chinese immigrants looking for equal rights for their children.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

The cases I cited date back to the 1800's and are confirmed legal precedent that state illegal aliens do have some basic rights under the Constitution, particularly due process, which would cover the other poster's inquiry on citizen's arrests.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:13 AM
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a reply to: Christosterone

That number of only 12 million or so illegals in the US was established in 2007, under the Obama administration, it has no change since then.

I wonder why



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Remember that during that time most of the immigrants were not really considered illegals they were brought to the US as workers.


Between 1850 and 1930, about 5 million Germans migrated to the United States, peaking between 1881 and 1885 when a million Germans settled primarily in the Midwest. Between 1820 and 1930, 3.5 million British and 4.5 million Irish entered America. Before 1845 most Irish immigrants were Protestants. After 1845, Irish Catholics began arriving in large numbers, largely driven by the Great Famine.[26]

After 1880 larger steam-powered oceangoing ships replaced sailing ships, which resulted in lower fares and greater immigrant mobility. Meanwhile, farming improvements in Southern Europe and the Russian Empire created surplus labor. Young people between the ages of 15 to 30 were predominant among newcomers. This wave of migration, constituting the third episode in the history of U.S. immigration, may be better referred to as a flood of immigrants, as nearly 25 million Europeans made the long trip. Italians, Greeks, Hungarians, Poles, and others speaking Slavic languages made up the bulk of this migration. 2.5 to 4 million Jews were among them.


en.wikipedia.org...

These people help build America.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

It still doesn't matter, since that time hundreds of cases have bene argued which support the fact that anyone in the United States are entitled to basic legal rights under the Constitution.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: ColdWisdom



The illegals who use our SS#s of both living and dead people, and the criminals I would like to see booted out. The ones using SS#s are committing a crime, by stealing. I used to manage restaurants, a few times we, had an employee quit, only to come back a few months later, with a different name, and SS#, I was not the GM, he overlooked these practices. I have no idea how they did it.


Two different occasions, I walked in to find an employee I had worked with for years, who had quit, standing there at a prep table, and they were introduced to me with a new name, I was like ?????!!!!!??????d



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Christosterone

That number of only 12 million or so illegals in the US was established in 2007, under the Obama administration, it has no change since then.

I wonder why



Obama deported more -

you know, ATS has become such a waste of time.

You're simply wrong. Purposefully ignorant. Living in #alternativefact land.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: testingtesting


It is a myth that we need immigrants (illegal or otherwise) to fill jobs. Before the great recession a new neighborhood was being built next to mine. There were no ads in the papers, internet, etc, for construction laborers (and my sons tried) but the industry was booming. When I drove by all I heard was Spanish spoken and Spanish music blaring on these potentially good paying job sites. We all get our friends and family jobs when we can I don't blame them at all. I do suspect the contractors took advantage of illegals by paying them lower wages than citizens would warrant. Also, if you stop the flood of low/no skill labor from pouring in, even the farmers will have to pay a decent wage to get the crops in. Of course the price of those goods will go up but it also means we have been paying artificially low produce prices.



posted on Jul, 13 2017 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: RomeByFire


Obama deported more -


So wrong. Such garbage...

Obama was able to get ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) to redefine what constitutes a legal deportation.

To them, showing up at the border and the being politely sent back to Mexico counts as deportation to the Obama administration.

A far cry from an MS-13 member getting his doors kicked in.




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