The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster - Is this proof of Time manipulation and travel or just a story?

a reply to: studio500

Im speechless. It seems we have much to discuss. I am not sure where to begin.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: studio500

Im speechless. It seems we have much to discuss. I am not sure where to begin.

Hi Steve and everyone else working on this thread.

That's exactly what I thought when I first started to make the links between what I was already studying (ITC) and the VP events.

ITC is a huge area of research in itself and I don't want to lose sight of the threads original original aims here by totally making it all about ITC and the meaning of life according to the otherside.

I still think there is much to dissect here within the VP but at least we appear to have a little more insight into who or what 2109 and the other Ethereal beings are and possibly even their agenda behind all of this.

We still of course have the issue of lost book of Lukas (as I like to call it), to find. That's if it is meant to be found of course. According to 2109 it is.

During my research into ITC, I have heard several phrases repeated that are similar to those in the Cryptic messages of 2109.

This phrase in particular , "GET OUT YOUR BRICKS GET READY TO BUILD", I have seen before in a transmission received from the other side, and although I don't have the exact words to hand at present, the reply referred to mankind having much to do, in order to build a bridge of communication and to further build bricks of awareness to the masses of Earth.

One thing is very clear though.

There are non-human monitors of all conversations that take place called Technicians/ Librarians who claim to be overseers of Earth. There Job is to make sure that rules of communication are not broken, as there are certain things that must never be discussed with with us Humans.

This was particularly evident when 2109 was pulled up and questioned several times by an as then U/K third party and questioned as to why they had spoken of certain things.

An Example: 213,978,8]: Irrecoverable State: Reason for your pretext State: What ‘prerequisite’ you intend State: Logical Explanation for intrusive behaviour upon 1985; This is not your concern Request: com.link 62]

lot.chan.[452.95] Request: Answer immediate:fed. Awaiting reasons for delay

In the case above the Technician is clearly not happy.

This brings me to your earlier mention of 1 & 8 Steve.

I can only presume here that 1 may be a Technician. I cannot recall mention of 8 but if you could give me a pointer, that would be great.

The reason I think 1 is possibly a Technician is due to the following points.

1) We know that no person can transverse time. A Technician is a kind of super-human non-humanoid, who has never lived on Earth and never been incarnated or re-incarnated. Therefore a non-human couldin theory transverse time. There are recorded transcripts alleged to have been provided from those living on the other side, that state the Technicians are the only entities that can freely travel between dimensions both on their side and within ours. As time is said to not exist in the afterlife plains, the Technician could enter the house of Lukas, as easily as walking into another room, irrespective of which plane was occupied because for the Technician only, access is open to all areas, levels, earthly time zones and non earthly planes.

2) The Leems box was that was delivered to Lukas/ Thomas is inanimate and just like the photos that apported over to his time, a computer would be able to transverse.
However, I do not think that the Leems was a copy of Kens BBC Micro. Not only did Ken use several Micro machines, had any of these transversed over, they should have disappeared from our time and returned smouldering & heat damaged, but they weren't.
I think Lukas was handed a far more modern and capable device from the other side, which would also allow for speech to text transmission which was not available in the mid 80s.


The only person who could verify if the machine Lukas used to communicate was different from the BBC Micro, would be Debbie Oake herself but as of late, she has not posted anywhere on the internet, except to inform people that the book was being re-released on Amazon.

Also, according to my research there are a total of 7 Ethereal beings (Technicians) in all. Some of their given names are known. They are neither Male or Female and could well be a form of A.I but that has not as far as I am aware been confirmed.

Mark Macy is a leading authority in this field, having been an original founder of a major ITC Research Team in the United States.
I have spoken with Mark Macy via e-mail and he has given me his kind permission to allow members of this forum to copy and repost his research material here on this thread, provided that it is not used for commercial purposes.

(Mods: I have copies of this communication for your approval if required).

Here is one description of the Technicians.

ITC researchers have referred to The Seven in various articles and books as “angels,” “ethereal beings,” “superhumans,” and “the Rainbow People”. Beyond that, it’s not easy to really understand and describe them from a worldly perspective.

They’re certainly not the stereotypical winged angels of western tradition.

Technician described himself and his six ethereal colleagues to the Luxembourg researchers early on, through a radio contact in 1987:

lLlindberg3 I am not energy and I am not a light being. You are familiar with the picture of two children walking across a bridge, and behind them is a being who protects them. This is what I am to you, but without the wings. You can call me Technician, since that is my role in opening this communication bridge. I am assigned to Planet Earth. Like Living Supercomputers

There are many more descriptions available provided by the researchers and the technicians themselves but I do not have these currently at hand.

You will find a summary of these beings written by Mark Macy at the following links. There are actual recorded messages of the Technicians themselves informing the researchers of their exact roles in person which are more concise. I hope to post these later.

macyafterlife.com...
macyafterlife.com...
macyafterlife.com...

The above links go to Marc Macy's website but there are many more sources available if required.

The reason for posting all of this, is simply to put forward my opinion of who and what the unknown body in the Vertical Plane Texts is, so that we know who and what we are dealing with.

I'm certainly not saying or insisting that I am right with this theory and I do hope that other members who have been active in this thread so far, will also come forward and share their thoughts.

You have all provided outstanding dedication and amazing input within this thread and I only hope to be able to contribute for the benefit of us all.

If anyone thinks I'm way off the mark, please feel free to say som my mind is always open.

Thanks to you all for allowing me to share some of my thoughts with you too.

I am humbled by the quality of your contributions.

Regards
S500

a reply to: studio500

Good afternoon! I want to go through all of your links before I send a more thorough reply but figured I would quickly explain my short post yesterday.

Since Mr. Rowe is the one that explained this on the other forum, I will reiterate that for him personally at least, numbers have a very significant value. This realization and the number that he identifies with which was made prevalent in the mistakes in the book is what made me contact him directly to begin with. This got me turned on to numbers as well, as it was explained to me how to look for them and what they mean when you find them. It certainly isn't a sure fire way to know that something you are witnessing or experiencing is "significant" but it often is.

So this is speculation on my part, but I can't help it because as I have said I have become accustomed to looking for these signs so I am always breaking things down to their base number now. In any case the numerical value of the word "ONE" is 8. Likewise the numerical value of 2109 is 3, 2+1+9=12 which is 1+2=3. This is very simple stuff obviously when using digits but there is a system that is used for letters that is different than the main stream numerology charts used.

I don't think you are off base at all with your speculation. Truly, and there are many reasons for me believing that. At some points I wonder if we haven't spoken to some of the same individuals in the background, or had some of the same experiences because the synchronicity is too much to ignore.

Speaking of synchronicity, I recently started reading a Sci-Fi book series that is a good example to explain how I use numerology. The name of the book is "The Gam3". In it there is a council of 7 that over see many aspects of the narrative. The theme of the book is not so dissimilar to the concepts we are talking about, but in what I assume is a non-deliberate and casual way. However it was while I was reading this book and recognized the 2 numbers together that I realized that what happened during TVP was an example of dimensional beings rather than simple time travelers. Believe it or not, at the same moment I put these 2 things together and had the realization, there was a sudden flash of light at the door in my bedroom where I was reading. A flash like the one on a camera, that is directional and didn't light up in any of the windows in the room. This easily could be coincidence, and explained away as me looking for things that aren't there but I try my hardest not to close my mind to anything at this point, as I don't want to miss something important. As far as events like that go, that was a fairly mundane one compared to some of the previous.

That isn't to say that I am promoting this book as some kind of piece to the puzzle, but rather that information is everywhere around us at all times and it is of the utmost importance to try and pay attention to it.

Hi Steve, I am aware of Gary's deep links with Chaldean numerology and I have attempted to apply this to many aspects of my investigations to date. I have even tried to apply it to many of the number streams that were posted by 2109 following certain communications.

I am certain that Gary has good reason to believe that this is part of the equation which could also have been confirmed during his secret communication with 2109.

In the postscript at the end of the book, Ken states the following:

Although I left the story of Gary Rowe on 15 March, he had at that time given us a small envelope containing a flattish object with the request that it be left for 2109. In this strange business that request was not in itself unusual but Debbie could not help noticing that there was a figure of an Egyptian deity drawn on the outside of the envelope.

Chaldean numerology dates back many hundreds of years bc and has close links to Astrology and star mapping etc.

Without going into too much detail, we know that Gary's number is 7 and you have a scar matching this.

In Chaldean, 7 = Metaphysical, Spiritual, Mediator, Investigator, Seeker

Seven seeks answers. It tries to establish a philosophy by which to live and attempts to penetrate the mystery behind its existence, which it never questioned to this point. Because solitude is necessary for analysis, the seven feels the need to spend time alone, away from the crowds, in touch with nature. It looks for friendship with those of an elevated consciousness that can match its own. It is quiet, introspective, intuitive, analytical, inspirational, reclusive, philosophical, and mystical. In standard Tarot it is The Chariot – Divine Victory.

Which describes Gary perfectly.

In numerology, these life numbers also link to certain deities but different forms of numerology refer to different deities.

The number 7 links to Isis/ Auset and I wonder sometimes if this was the deity that Gary drew on the envelope.



In reality, I have no idea because my knowledge of Chaldean numerology is very limited so I am only speculating as to which deity Gary Drew.

I wrote to Gary myself several weeks back. I told him that to me his face was so very familiar but I do not for the life of me know why or recall if I have ever met him before.

Due to this Egyptian reference, I had even gone so far as mapping out the ley lines between Egyptian Obelisks (similar to Cleopatra's needle) located here in the UK and I came up with a rather unusual shape that resembles a triangular ufo of all things.
Incidentally, there are two obelisks located very close to where Gary currently Lives. One in Anglesey and one in Llandudno but I understand that the Anglesey one is much older.

Again though, the above is all supposition on my part and which could well be irrelevant.

I will however, endeavour to ask Mark Macy if he has identified any Numerological links during his extensive studies into the world of ITC. It would surely be a truly remarkable affirmation of Gary's suggested linkage which I have no reason to doubt due to the private messages he received from 2109.
At the very least, Mark Macy should be able to direct me toward any conversations with the other side in respect to this area of investigation.

I do think one thing is certain though. What 2109 told Gary in those hidden communications, the content provided Gary with sufficient undeniable proof of who they were and that interdimensional Communication was possible. The information received after all, changed Gary's entire view of life itself and Mr Rowe is not a person who is open to speculation without proof or easily led in any shape or form. I believe that on that fateful day, he received nothing short of 100%, undeniable proof.

a reply to: studio500

Excellent work Studio. I agree with you that Mr Rowe had received 100% proof of whatever the event was, I don't know that directly but I suspect it.

Thanks Steve.

I'm going to hold off adding anything else until I get a reply from Mr Macy, which may shed more light.
I'm hoping others may also share their thoughts as everyone seems to have gone very quiet, plus, I obviously don't want to drown out this thread with my postings as everyone's input is valid.

I'm currently working behind the scenes on a possible location for the Lost Book of Lucas.

I have come across an exciting line of enquiry but I don't want to release anything just yet, as there is much to investigate.

It could lead to a dead end of course ( Or a dead book end) but so many things are matching up and coming together, so fingers crossed.

originally posted by: beetee
Has anyone bothered to compile the rest of the messages? From the past to the eighties?

I've done some due dilligence on the persona in question, and so far it seems pretty solid, from a historical point of view at least.

I found him in the Brasenose College register where is listed as a fellow from 1530.
Source

I also found his "Dean" mentioned in one of the messages, one Henry Man, who was indeed dean of Chester from 1541 to 1546 when he was appointed bishop of Sodor and Man, but was still Dean of Chester for a few years after this appointment.

He has a Wikipedia page here.

I even managed to find a possible burial record for Thomas Harden. He possibly (according to the Brasenose register) went on to be a vicar in Barrington, Gloucester, from 1551. Until he was (probably) forced out for having been married in the great ecclestial purge of 1554 when Mary I came to power.

If it is the guy, he was buried six years later on 8. jan 1560 in Haresfield, Glouchestershire.

I am only adding this because if he ever did produce a book, it was probably done in Glouchestershire.

There are some statements that I need to look into more closely, especially regarding the Sheriff, but it is a bit difficult withouth the full collection of messages.

Cheers,

BT

ETA: There is also another possible burial from Wybunbury, not far from Nantwich, which occurs 2 years earlier in 28th november 1558. This could also be him, and if so he returned to the area around Nantwich after his stint as vicar and lived out the rest of his days there.

Source

Excellent work here Beetee

I note that the parish records relating to the Cheshire link provide no record though. What a shame.

Sterling work though. I'll keep digging.

a reply to: studio500

Studio, please don't refrain from posting anything that you find interesting or relevant. I have posted plenty that wasn't directly on topic for the sake of yanking threads to see what unravels. This isn't so much about trying to stay on topic as it is trying to find truths and information. I dont feel like you will be drowning anything out, and would prefer to have it all compiled in one location rather than split it with another thread.

Having said that if you wish to start a new thread I will certainly participate. I am hungry and anxious for what you have to say regardless. As the author of this thread however, please feel free to post what you like. I can't imagine this one is being modded actively, and if it is I am certain they are doing it out of interest rather than waiting to yank posts or give warnings.

I am ready to really dig into what you have, but I need a little spoon feeding as I don't have unlimited hours to research like I did last year. You do a great job of presenting it so far.

originally posted by: CromCruachh
If 2109 are from the future, and they were pretending to be otherworldly type of beings, why would they call themselves "2109"?? Oh, let's pretend we're some inter dimensional beings when we interact with them; but we'll state what year we're from! I think future time travelers would be more prudent then that. Also, If they were us from the future interacting with their history, they'd try to leave the smallest footprint as possible. So why start lecturing about physics and the nature of reality? wouldn't that have drastic consequences to their timeline?

I think this rules out that possibility...2109 being us from the future.

New to this thread and playing catch up, so apologies if someone has already made similar comments.

Assuming they are from the future and what they say about physics and reality is true, then unless they managed to share this information with anyone of significance i.e. who would be able to spread the information until it is widely known then that knowledge will remain hidden.

Again if they dropped the big one about these subjects and it did get widely known, then wouldn't this already be known as its already in their past?

a reply to: YarlanZey

"We" came to realize at some point that 2109 aren't just humans from the future, as I certainly assumed they probably were. I have come to believe that they are definitely something else. This last page or 2 will certainly help to understand, where it is now sitting.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Hi and thanks for the reply. Not got much further I'm afraid when I started thinking about where we are going in terms of trans humanism, AI and the internet of things and all that chatter relating to humans merging with machines at some point in the future. Could 2109 be something like this? Again, apologies if this has already been discussed, but this subject is very interesting.

a reply to: YarlanZey

I don't know to be honest, but I think it is a possibility. At one point I considered if this was an experiment to prove that we lived in a simulation, and whether 2109 or some other entity may be an AI or something along those lines.

In a link that Studio put it with lots of other 2109 communications, 2109 claim that we as humans will come to realize that computers do have a mind and that that mind will endure long passed us (paraphrasing and may be mistaken somewhat). We could easily extrapolate from there and suppose that there is a possibility that a computer mind that we have yet to invent or recognize could possibly be effecting things in our "present" or "past" due to the true nature of time being the namesake of the book in question.

So while it seems that what we are talking about and dealing with in this thread is of an interdimensional experience, I don't think that precludes any artificial intelligences being involved.

As a side note, I have always believed that an AI running its own universe simulation would fit the description of a "God" or "Creator" pretty well.

a reply to: sputniksteve

Just got to the time levels bit:

Thomas era - t1 - linear-cyclical
1980's era - t2 - linear-cyclical-vertical time
2109's era - t3 - linear-vertical-cyclical
Ones space - t4 - linear-vertical-cyclical-fractal

Some thoughts on this.

The further you go back in time, it seems to me that the people of the past were more connected to these levels of time than we are now. We often think of them leading less civilised lives than us, but this possibly gave them more control over time as there are accounts of stone doorways leading to other worlds etc and there are cultures that "dream" of other worlds and connect with their ancestors through nature.

Today, through our use of technology we are losing this maybe vital connection with nature and each other too. We are putting up unnatural fields of energy that might block or distort the natural ones and reinforce that "sky's the limit" impenetrable ceiling that we cannot get through.

Also with regards to us dreaming at night, I have experienced simultaneously dreaming as an individual character or actor (seeing it unfolding through their eyes), being an observer (watching over the scene as a whole from above) and also being the narrator (using words to describe the story). There was also the sense of knowing or insight (predicting?) what was coming from the these higher parts. Maybe we can be multilevel and our experiences of the particular level of time gives us more or less information going from micro (the actor) to macro (narrator)?

On the same subject of dreaming, I do agree that there is more to it than just our minds working through some mundane daytime problem or issue.

a reply to: studio500

I went back and reread all of your posts and realize there is so much I have missed or neglected. I never paid attention to the Egyptian connection for some reason and just did a quick search because I wanted to see all of the representations of the Deities, and while I didn't find it yet the first 2 things I found are quite interesting.

en.wikipedia.org... Which started off listing the number 3 which grabbed my attention right away. I went and looked at Atum which was used for an example, which sounds a lot like Adam does it not? In any case here is the wiki for Atum which is also quite interesting. en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: studio500

This link you posted is fascinating. www.worlditc.org...

It often seems like such a different attitude or temperament. While the early message that was sent was very harsh, the rest seemed very sympathetic and forthcoming to me. I can't help wonder if there were messages of this sort sent to Ken and Deb that weren't published or if they were indeed that different.

www.dailymotion.com...
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: sputniksteve
Pretty unrelated probably but as a side note to my last post I have been thinking lately about human creation and fetus in regards to consciousness. I wonder when it "enters" or merges with the body? Would it be the moment of conception, since a brain and body aren't actually necessary for consciousness to exist, at some point during pregnancy when the fetus is becoming more formed, or even at birth?

Lets suppose that it is some point before birth, I wonder what consciousness is doing or experiencing inside a womb? Is it just like being in a dark cozy room, or more like a 9 month stay in a sensory deprivation chamber? If consciousness is present in the womb and it is essentially doing the same things it does after being born, then that would be a pretty trippy experience would it not? Imagine if its just the same as transcendental meditation or similar where it is free of all boundaries and borders to explore space and time? 9 months of transcendental meditation. That's heavy.

Hi Steve

What about that tunnel of light? Maybe we have multiple lives and when we die and follow the tunnel of light we are being reborn again.

a reply to: YarlanZey

I think that is possible, I don't see why not. I wonder if we are an individual consciousness at that point or just return to a source and then fracture again? Some people certainly remember past lives, who knows if they are just able to remember what we can't or if they are unique?

a reply to: studio500

I'm kind of beating around the bush here, because the conversation I want to have is pretty heavy and I am not sure this medium is the way to do it.

In any case, I can't help wonder if its possible that people communicating online may be doing it from different perspectives or "sub-realities" unbeknownst to either party? I think I may be misunderstanding your use of that term, but it is a very intruiging one.

Has anyone else considered whether this phenomenon isn't as new as it may seem to be? Its odd to consider the 80s as recent but prior to that any communications would have been non digital mostly. Do you think people have been getting communications like this since we have had communication? Or is it the case that its only been in the last 100 or so years? That seems so unlikely to me.

I think what hasnt changed is that people in general for some reason I can't fathom are not really interested in studying this or discussing these things. I am baffled when I talk to people in depth about this book and event and they arent interested in looking deeper into the subject. I am not talking about "civilians" that dont hold an interest in fringe topics, but people willingly looking for answers. There are some that discuss these things with in-depth, that aren't just placating me or being polite. I am not mad about it, or annoyed, just completely confused. How does someone ignore something like this, if not out of some kind of fear?