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Why Trump Jr didn't commit a crime

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posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: UKTruth

But that doesn't change the fact that you went to McDonald's to get a burger. Whether they were out or not doesn't change why you got in your car strapped the kiddies into the back seat and drove all the way to McDonald's. You intended to get burgers. You didn't go there expecting pork chops or steak .


yeah - and going to get a burger is not illegal. Therefore it's a good analogy.


No. But soliciting a foreign national for "something of value" is. The big catch is what constitutes "something of value", and nobody on this board is qualified enough to define it.

If tried, we will probably see a new legal precedent for defining "something of value". In the end, everybody gets a blank slate.

This doesn't need to be spun into anything. The WH has lied for months about their dealings with Russia prior to the election. This won't be the last time information leaks about staff meeting with Russia, and in the end it will blow over anyway.

End result is a completely backwards WH that has no credibility. That's it.




posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: UKTruth

That's not even the correct analogy. It's more like a friend told me there's a new kind of burger, go check it out. I go to McDonald's to check out the burger, only to find out my friend lied to me.


More like your liberal friend told you to go try the new limited-time-only Nadaburger (2 buns no meat), but when you got there they were sold out because the libs had gobbled them all up. Again.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Or what?

Are you going to make me, big man?

Wind your neck in.

You are hardly in a position to instruct me in matters, since you do not understand the concept of conspiracy, or that getting foreign entities to dish whatever dirt they have on a political figure is deeply shady from an espionage angle.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: veracity
I dont know much on the subject, but I just feel like the drumpfs got all excited to exploit someone or something and then got dissed...is that what happened?


Sounds to me like DTJ did get excited and was very stupid and got played - wasting his time on a lobbyist who wanted to talk about adoption. Also pretty stupid for entering the email exchange.

That said - Russia was not exactly an issue at the time and in fact, if you think about it logically, if the Trump campaign were in league with Russians the email approach would have sounded alarm bells and DTJ would have been far more careful.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

Or what?

Are you going to make me, big man?

Wind your neck in.

You are hardly in a position to instruct me in matters, since you do not understand the concept of conspiracy, or that getting foreign entities to dish whatever dirt they have on a political figure is deeply shady from an espionage angle.


You seem upset, little man.
I just asked you to be specific instead of spouting general drivel.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

I am not getting carried away with propaganda.

All I am saying, is that whether a crime has been committed or not in this instance, has nothing to do with the facts, and everything to do with the fact that its one rule for one group of people, and another for the political class, and the super wealthy. Slightest immorality on the part of someone in the streets? Chaos, evidence of social decay, the collapse of society. Someone from a wealthy background colluding with foreign nationals in order to affect the outcome of an election by one means or another though, thats totally fine?



Seriously, does everything have to be about the struggle of the masses?
This was a simple meeting to gather opposition research. If an ordinary Joe Schmo had a meeting with this Russian lawyer to hear about Hillary Clinton, they would not be in trouble either.


Because a regular Joe Schmo isn't campaigning to be the leader of the free world....

The above isn't even a half-decent comparison and in fairness you're better than that.


A private citizen campaigning or not has the same rights as everyone else.
I assume you are not advocating for unequal application of the law, which seemed to be the reason for the complaint in the first place.


A private citizen is not under FECA. Again, you're better than that.

It's not even advocating, a regular Joe Schmo is not held to Fedaral Campaign Finance Legislation.

Don't turn this on me like I make the rules in the US.

It's not even comparable....



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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In the end this will be egg on the face of the democrats once again. This is still a nothing burger for many reasons. Even if trump jr did meet with this Russian lawyer to get dirt on Hillary Clinton that doesn't constitute financial gain. There is absolutely no treason here and I'm quite sure most Americans would want information from a foreign government if that information helps the United States and it's people. Julian Assange is a hero and so it Putin for pointing out and investigating the most corrupt politician to ever walk the face of the Earth. Hillary... Foreign government does something to help us and you all yell treason. I would yell treason if it were the opposite and we were uninterested in what Russia had to say.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

Value can only be measured in monetary terms. That's the only way. If DNC pays Christopher Steele for information on Trump, that is something of value. That would be illegal under US law. If I ask you to give me your house for free and you do that, then your house has no value.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Perfectly outlines your intent don't you agree?

Just like going to this meeting perfectly outlines Juniors intent.

Give it up. You loose.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

I'm going to be lazy since Everytime someone starts talking about these words in a legal sense I end up having to link everything for everyone, but in the statute there is a definition for solicitation and the matter at hand doesn't seem to fit really.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

I am not getting carried away with propaganda.

All I am saying, is that whether a crime has been committed or not in this instance, has nothing to do with the facts, and everything to do with the fact that its one rule for one group of people, and another for the political class, and the super wealthy. Slightest immorality on the part of someone in the streets? Chaos, evidence of social decay, the collapse of society. Someone from a wealthy background colluding with foreign nationals in order to affect the outcome of an election by one means or another though, thats totally fine?



Seriously, does everything have to be about the struggle of the masses?
This was a simple meeting to gather opposition research. If an ordinary Joe Schmo had a meeting with this Russian lawyer to hear about Hillary Clinton, they would not be in trouble either.


Because a regular Joe Schmo isn't campaigning to be the leader of the free world....

The above isn't even a half-decent comparison and in fairness you're better than that.


A private citizen campaigning or not has the same rights as everyone else.
I assume you are not advocating for unequal application of the law, which seemed to be the reason for the complaint in the first place.


A private citizen is not under FECA. Again, you're better than that.

It's not even advocating, a regular Joe Schmo is not held to Fedaral Campaign Finance Legislation.

Don't turn this on me like I make the rules in the US.

It's not even comparable....


A private citizen IS under federal election campaign law.
Ask Dinesh D'Souza
www.justice.gov...
You're better than that - or are you?
edit on 12/7/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

As long as the info is true what does it matter who delivers it?



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

I'm going to be lazy since Everytime someone starts talking about these words in a legal sense I end up having to link everything for everyone, but in the statute there is a definition for solicitation and the matter at hand doesn't seem to fit really.


I've seen you try, but I think you know these people are not interested in the law - only propaganda, smearing and fantasising about imaginary laws.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: RickyD

Once we discover what was exchanged we will assign a value.
We just haven't discovered what was exchanged yet. But I've no doubt there are more emails out there. Rhona anyone? Forwarded to....???Who?
I don't think anyone is actually buying the we didn't get anything line.
These people lie through their teeth.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12

When you do it with a foreign government that want's to influence the election process in the United States, it's Treason.

www.mcclatchydc.com...

You just failed freshman social studies.


Treason is specifically defined in the Constitution as providing aid to an enemy. It can only exist in wartime.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: UKTruth

Conspiracy to commit a crime, is a criminal act in and of itself. In this case, the closest match would be espionage, would it not? Colluding with a foreign national in the hopes of receiving information from them which ought not be public? Pretty damned near the knuckle, would you not agree?

If she had evidence that Hillary had committed a crime (which is what was claimed), then would you not agree that Trump Jr. should make every effort to obtain that info?



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

Note also the change of accusations as the story continues to fall apart. It was once "The Trump campaign helped Russians orchestrate their hacking and disinfo campaign" as Dem Terry McAuliffe intimated, to "DTjr sought incriminating info from the Russian gov." It's what legal experts call a fishing-expedition. It's what laymen call throwing sh#t at the wall to see what sticks.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: UKTruth

The funny thing is if he did violate this law and it was provable I would be all for upholding the law and seeing him prosecuted for it, however trying to make up definitions for words in a law on the fly, and trying to pick and choose when and how it applies to whom is a very slippery slope and way more dangerous of a precedent than any opposition Intel that could come from anyone... Literally anyone...Ever could be.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: UKTruth

Perfectly outlines your intent don't you agree?

Just like going to this meeting perfectly outlines Juniors intent.

Give it up. You loose.


Yes, he intended to do something perfectly legal. So I loose, whatever that means, but you lose.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: allsee4eye

What makes you think they didn't use it?
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Bernie Sanders??? Chaos at the convention. Later that summer...
Wikileaks every few days?

They used it .




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