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Let's Talk About Collusion/Conspiracy as it Applies to Trump Jr.

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posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: Vorian

LOL The dems are only calling for a security clearance being revoked and you think this is the point where republicans turn on trump???????

Fantasy land I guess.




posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:00 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Vorian

LOL The dems are only calling for a security clearance being revoked and you think this is the point where republicans turn on trump???????

Fantasy land I guess.


It's close. Since Trump is a lunatic, how long do you think he can actually last?

start at 4:43, it;s long.


edit on 12-7-2017 by Vorian because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2017 by Vorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:20 AM
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a reply to: Vorian
Ahhhh, there's the problem. You think colbert is news. Trump will serve his full term.

Here, from a source you probably have at least some respect for: www.usatoday.com...


EDIT: I was morbidly curious and watched the colbert video. lol, so much stupid passing itself off for news.
edit on 12-7-2017 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite
This story is so overblown by the media they're practically self-immolating. The first most obvious thing is that he was the one getting solicited, he didn't seek out the attorney for info. Second thing is, it's not illegal to meet someone claiming to have information. The questionable stuff would be what you do afterward WITH the information. Keep it secret from intelligence agencies, leak it to the media, all sorts of things, and then there would have to be going back and asking Russia for more.
Instead we have an attorney soliciting Trump Jr., lying about being in a position to have information, and lying about having information. So, he meets a literally who and doesn't get told any information or provided any documents, which he would presumably then be required to report, which would explain why people in the campaign wanted to be there for it. The left is literally in la la land imagining # in some kind of hypothetical conspiracy of what they think Trump Jr. would have done IF the attorney had information. They're just ascribing automatic guilt because their fanfiction of Trump's world is all dark, nefarious, and up to the neck in Russia.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:27 AM
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a reply to: birdonwire


They're just ascribing automatic guilt because their fanfiction of Trump's world is all dark, nefarious, and up to the neck in Russia.


DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winner.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite



Bwahaha @ your exceptional mental backflips.

Bravo good sir.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:33 AM
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a reply to: FelisOrion

Excellent post! Top notch! You sir, are intelligent beyond your years!
edit on 12-7-2017 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:35 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
There are probably better places for this thread than the mud pit but oh well.

There seems to be some confusion out there about what collusion is, whether Trump Jr colluded, whether it's illegal, whether it's unethical, and what have you. I'm going to try to cover that and Conspiracy (which is illegal) as best I can.

Illegal Collusion:
Yes, it exists! For this type of collusion to occur, two parties must come to an agreement which defrauds or deprives a third party of their rights (also known as an evil purpose). This type of collusion typically occurs between parties who have seemingly conflicting interests (e.g. competing businesses, attorneys, divorcees, etc).

More broadly, non-criminal collusion is an agreement between two or more parties for a harmful purpose. If I know you want the snickers bar out of the vending machine and get together with my coworkers to buy all of them so you can't have one, that's non-criminal collusion. You don't have a right to the snickers bar.

So what did Trump Jr. do?
The facts: He received an email from a friend claiming to have access to damaging information on Hillary. This friend aksed to set up a meeting between Jr. and the Russian lawyer who was supposed to spill the beans. Jr. said sure, sounds like a good time and proceeded to meet with this Russian lawyer.

This does not equal collusion, this doesn't even meet the standard of non-criminal collusion. Agreeing to have a meeting is not an agreement between two or more parties for a harmful purpose. Further, criminal collusion doesn't exist in a political campaign as there isn't a third party to deprive of their rights or to defraud.

The reason everyone is saying collusion isn't illegal in the trump-russia case is because they were not colluding to deprive anyone of their rights nor were they trying to defraud anyone. They're correct on that front, but they're letting things progress a step past where they should be progressing. Not only was collusion not illegal, there is still no evidence of collusion.

Now, what the real narrative out there is, the real contention of the Russian narrative, is that there was a conspiracy between Trump (or his campaign) and Russia, against Hillary. They don't want to use that term because it LITERALLY turns the whole thing into a conspiracy theory. They would be endlessly mocked about their conspiracy theory nonsense. But let's look at it from a legal perspective since there can certainly be a criminal conspiracy in the political realm.

Here's what is needed to prove conspiracy:
1) You need a time frame, during which an agreement was made to commit a crime.
2) The guilty party must have been aware of the goal of the conspiracy AND intended to help accomplish it.
3) The guilty party must have committed at least one overt act for the purpose of carrying out the conspiracy.
*an overt act is an act that can be clearly proved through evidence and criminal intent can be inferred.

As even the most anti-trump lawyers have ceded, there's no evidence for this with the Trump Jr. meeting. That's why they've moved on to campaign finance laws.

If you think I didn't address something fully or missed something, let me know and I'll try to fix it.

I'm sure that the title will rope in some lefty's thinking they're going to get told collusion isn't illegal and therefore they'll run down and comment before reading the OP, it will be some fun entertainment.


Who cares, he didnt pervert the constitution...



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:36 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Always glad to bring top quality posts to this land of racialist rejects from Godlikeproductions. Because in the past 8 months, that's what this site turned into.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:36 AM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Dfairlite

Not only was nothing illegal done...nothing even remotely unethical was done.

However, let us make a big deal out of it because Trump.


Why has Trump campaign denied and lied about meeting with Russians If its not illegal nor unethical ?


They haven't...anytime anything has come up they have provided the full context of what occurred.

Got anything to show they've lied or denied?

You are joking right? They all lied when they said they had no connection with the Russians. Dimwit jr should have thought of that before releasing those messages.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:38 AM
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a reply to: FelisOrion

Lol, you would know, I'm sure you visit often. Your posts look like they're taken directly from that site.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 04:47 AM
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a reply to: Vorian

Figures, Colbert says Trump Jr shouldn't have tweeted out his emails. He must have said it ten times. I guess he figured Trump would have been best off bleach bitting the data and smashing the devices with a hammer, kinda like Hillary would have done?

Suggestion for you is to quit watching Colbert, the guy is a propaganda machine.

USA today might be something you could look at.
www.usatoday.com...


Donald Trump Jr. was within his rights to meet with Russian lawyer

edit on 12-7-2017 by birdonwire because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 05:42 AM
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It really doesnt matter what info or if actual info was provided or not.
The fact that Jr felt comfortable releasing this info should tell us something about Jrs. view of what is damaging in regards to the Russia Trump investigation and whats not.
It should come as no surprise that the release of this info contradicts pretty much all the comments made on the investigation by the Trump admin



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: Jubei42

It literally contradicts none of them.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:05 AM
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By the standards that have been presented as collusion with this nothing burger meeting whereas the left is claiming "intent to collude" with Russia, simply because he was open to receiving damaging Hillary info is one huge deflection.

The hysterical, delusional anti Trumpers see this as a smoking gun. But what do they have to say when it's the Never Trumpers, Democratic opp research funded and linked to Hillary and the FBI who actually colluded with the Russians - by the standards they already set for Trump.


Mr. Steele makes clear that his unproven charges came almost exclusively from sources linked to the Kremlin and Russian President Vladimir Putin. He identified his sources as “a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure,” a former “top level Russian intelligence officer active inside the Kremlin,” a “senior Kremlin official” and a “senior Russian government official.”


m.washingtontimes.com... emocrats-spread-false-russian-information-on-trum/

What Trump Jr did doesn't even come close to this whatsoever. The accusations are a smear and nothing more. The left needs to take a long hard look on the mirror bc just about everything they accuse Trump as, they've done tenfold.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Dfairlite

Not only was nothing illegal done...nothing even remotely unethical was done.

However, let us make a big deal out of it because Trump.


Why has Trump campaign denied and lied about meeting with Russians If its not illegal nor unethical ?


They haven't...anytime anything has come up they have provided the full context of what occurred.

Got anything to show they've lied or denied?

You are joking right? They all lied when they said they had no connection with the Russians. Dimwit jr should have thought of that before releasing those messages.


You actually consider this a "connection with the Russians?"



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:13 AM
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originally posted by: birdonwire
a reply to: Vorian

Figures, Colbert says Trump Jr shouldn't have tweeted out his emails. He must have said it ten times. I guess he figured Trump would have been best off bleach bitting the data and smashing the devices with a hammer, kinda like Hillary would have done?

Suggestion for you is to quit watching Colbert, the guy is a propaganda machine.

USA today might be something you could look at.
www.usatoday.com...


Donald Trump Jr. was within his rights to meet with Russian lawyer


This is the Red Scare and McCarthyism 2.0. They get their news from Colbert. It's a huge disinformation campaign victimizing their own supporters they have no respect for. They've been gaslighting millions of people, intentionally lying and misleading day after day false story after false story. They don't care as long as people are saying Trump and Russia in the same sentence.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:13 AM
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I bet the Trump family wishes they never got involved in their father's campaign and administration. Conservatives talk about liberals self-destructing, but in reality I think Trump is going to cause the GOP to self-destruct. Conservatives in congress are trying to hold out from condemning the lies the Trump administration has been blatantly caught in from numerous recorded videos. Now it's e-mails. (You can't write a better political comedy script, now the e-mail issue is turning around to haunt Trump)!

It doesn't look good for Trump when some popular representatives in his own party are criticizing him. You can only continue to deny basic facts for so long by repeating it's "fake news", but eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

Illegal Mexicans may get the last laugh...adios Muchacho!



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: WeRpeons

Another post by an anti trumper with no substance or factual basis. Yeah, you hate Trump but you have nothing and he's staying in office. Must suck for you.



posted on Jul, 12 2017 @ 06:28 AM
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This supposed friend of Trump Jr, very possibly a DNC undercover spy, told Trump Jr Natalia has damaging info on Hillary, doesn't make it true. It was either a joke or a trap. For there to be collusion, Natalia must have had damaging info. Maybe she backed out of the deal. Maybe she didn't have it. Either way, she didn't give anything to Trump Jr. Hence, no collusion.

A collusion has to be a mutual agreement between 2 parties. In this case, between Trump Jr and Natalia. If they made a deal, say Natalia give info to Trump Jr. in exchange for lifting of sanction, yes that would have been collusion and Trump Jr deserve to go to jail. But that is not the case. Natalia never said she had the info. Rod Goldstone said she did doesn't make it true.
edit on 12-7-2017 by allsee4eye because: (no reason given)



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