New Study: Being Transgender Is Not A Mental Disorder

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Peeple
There were days when being gay was part of the catalogue for mental illnesses. They won the fight because it's actually natural behaviour.

It's definitely not "natural behavior". But, neither is it "mental illness."

It's "artificial behavior" in the same way that man flying in the air is artificial and not natural.

Just because something is "possible", doesn't make it "natural."


We humans are not restricted to "natural behaviors", we have creative imagination that can go way beyond things that are natural.

That's mostly true, what makes it an illness tough is the obviously increased levels of psychological stress the concerned person experiences as proven by the suicide statistics.

a reply to: Peeple

Just cause you "think" something is a mental illness doesn't make it so.

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
a reply to: Peeple

Just cause you "think" something is a mental illness doesn't make it so.

Get a PhD and debate this guy:

Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature assigned to them biologically.

He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”

While the Obama administration, Hollywood, and major media such as Time magazine promote transgenderism as normal, said Dr. McHugh, these “policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention.”

Time magazine, June 9, 2014, cover story, The Transgender Tipping Point: America's Next Civil Rights Frontier. “This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.” The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.

This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said. The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time.

Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.” Pro-transgender activists. The Obama administration announced in May that Medicare will now cover transgender surgical procedures. “And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

The former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry also warned against enabling or encouraging certain subgroups of the transgendered, such as young people “susceptible to suggestion from ‘everything is normal’ sex education,” and the schools’ “diversity counselors” who, like “cult leaders,” may “encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery.” Dr. McHugh also reported that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.” Such action comes “close to child abuse,” said Dr. McHugh, given that close to 80% of those kids will “abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated ….” “’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
a reply to: Peeple

Just cause you "think" something is a mental illness doesn't make it so.

Just because a man "thinks" he's a woman doesn't make it so.

Why are people so bothered either way? does it effect your life? no so why not live and let live and have some empathy for others and just stop being twits.
It is sad.

Not a mental disorder, but certainly not the function of a society that has as a whole been baptized and are receiving the Holy Spirit.

Whore's tend to create this situation by failing to get baptized. They alienate affection with their demonic whoredoms by receiving false spirits. So, when a good looking righteous, successful man makes an sexual advance. They of course say no. And will readily lay down with the spiritual dogs of Babylon. They demotivate worthy, motivated, attractive males.

This probably the reason why the Old Testament says that if a priests daughter is a whore you are to burn them at the stake.

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

If the discussion is that personal to you that's entirely your problem and maybe you should stay away.
But it's quite stupid to call everyone you don't agree with "less evolved". If you're one of the "enlighteneds" preaching kindness and mutual respect but then use language equalising others with monkeys, ie less than humans, then I will gladly choose darkness.
Hypocrite.

The discussion is personal to me and something that I am passionate about admittedly. Which is absolutely why I will not excuse myself from the conversation. I can't help it if you feel personally attacked by my words but maybe they were for you or maybe they weren't but the point is only you know for sure if that applies to you or not. I will not be heckled away from my own thread so instead I authored a broad statement calling out the trolls for what they are and they know who they are and if the shoe fits wear it. I was simply reminding people that I can say mean things too if I believe them to be true and I do, I hold a very low opinion of people who attempt to be hurtful just because they can. I was making the point that you get in return what you put out into the world and like it or not that is a universal truth that applies to all of us. I know I know I'm the big bad tranny villain so when I use my words as weapon just as others would do the trolls circle the wagons and start pointing fingers without first looking in the mirror. So no I will not stop but I will play nice if others are willing to do the same. On the other hand if you want to come in here with garbage hate talk then I will throw right back, I'm not a turn the other cheek type of person but rather a gear up and go war type. So it is what y'all wanna make, we gonna converse or are we gonna fling poo?

I stated what I think, it's a mental illness. Of course I understand that to you, as you consider yourself god among the dogs, that must be insulting. It's not your fault like broken legs, depressions, psychosis etc. it happens and doesn't make you less human.
That's part of your problem, the delusion you're better than everyone. That you're different because you're more advanced or some bs. Forget it you might be a freak but it's not genetical so evolution has next to nothing to do with it.
The advancement of the species doesn't need you. What purpose would that serve? That's just silly.

I love how you're allowed to get away with calling me a freak and intentionally antagonizing me. I don't think I'm better than anyone specific but I can tell that you want a fight or at the very least you want to be abrasive with the intent to cause psychological duress knowing you can get away with it. Truth be told I do not care about you or your opinion, you are merely some internet stranger that hold views opposing to that of my own. I'll say it again as it is now it is not considered a mental illness but rather a mental disorder and there is a big difference. So it's not really my fault if you make yourself look dim or at the very least indicate that you have poor reading comprehension or maybe you didn't even read the OP in the first place. Maybe you just wanted to come along and fling poo with the other monkey's. Either way you are wrong and outdated, this is my last response to you so bye Felecia.

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Peeple
There were days when being gay was part of the catalogue for mental illnesses. They won the fight because it's actually natural behaviour.

It's definitely not "natural behavior". But, neither is it "mental illness."

It's "artificial behavior" in the same way that man flying in the air is artificial and not natural.

Just because something is "possible", doesn't make it "natural."


We humans are not restricted to "natural behaviors", we have creative imagination that can go way beyond things that are natural.

That's mostly true, what makes it an illness tough is the obviously increased levels of psychological stress the concerned person experiences as proven by the suicide statistics.

I know i said my last post was last but I can't help myself and want to again point our your illiteracy or the fact that you haven't been paying attention. In the study in my OP they show that 57% of Trans youth from non supportive homes have thoughts or feelings of suicide whereas youth from happy and very supportive homes only report 4%. I don't know about you and your wacky logic but to me that indicates that the feelings of suicide are prompted by external factors rather than being inherent to being Trans itself. I didn't use too many big words did I? You obviously either aren't reading the material I provide or you are just incapable of understanding it.

a reply to: Peeple

I'd have to disagree , it exists in nature in humans and therefore is natural , as is everything that exists in the universe , or anything we make is natural because it is derived from nature

Also what is considered as normal within society is very subjective , and we are conditioned from birth to accept what society considers normal and to shun what society doesn't consider normal lest we be outcast for being "different"

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

but does not exclude being trans as a factor in their depression either

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

but does not exclude being trans as a factor in their depression either

You seem to be failing to make the connection. Ok so you can be depressed without being Trans and it is possible to have a condition such as manic depression that could be entirely separate from being Trans. An example of that may or may not fall under that 4% from happy supportive homes. The question at that point would be if a Trans person is from a happy home and is still severely depressed then what is causing it. We can clearly see that Trans youth from non supportive homes report suicidal feelings at a rate of 57% so can make the obvious connection there when compared to a 4% rate for youth from supportive homes. We still do not know why the 4% would be unhappy but I personally would guess that it might be from a more specific condition dealing with depression, perhaps a chemical imbalance. Point being I do not think that a 4% rate indicates that the depression is directly related to being Trans. The answer is in the numbers and some just do not want to see or admit this. Some cling so desperately to fighting against something they simply do not or are incapable of understanding. I think some do not even wish to understand because the subject is so foreign to their closed and sheltered minds that the even the thought of something so different offends them and their very sheltered sense of normalcy.

a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

There is a correlation sure , but the study is so small it doesn't take into consideration the entire community , only when a study is done that takes into consideration a large enough sample of the population will it give more meaningful results when regarding the full community .

At best it's just an insight into what most already consider is fact

but the study does also mention that being transgender is a factor for the depression. I thin if anything this research just tells us that we need to do more research and understand this better and that means first removing the social stigma of trans people and getting more trans people to take part in studies .

effectively step one is mass awareness of this condition !

Being alive is a mental disorder.


Trying to be yourself is a very hard thing indeed, I can't imagine how tough it is for someone who's sense of self is so at odds with what they see in the mirror or feel in their skin.

originally posted by: sapien82
...

Also what is considered as normal within society is very subjective , and we are conditioned from birth to accept what society considers normal and to shun what society doesn't consider normal lest we be outcast for being "different"

That's certainly true for all handicapped people. Why is trans such a huge topic and not inclusion in general?

a reply to: Peeple

Exactly , we are treating trans people as though they aren't even human , the way disabled people were treated and the way gay people were treated, hey maybe thats why aliens dont come here because they see how badly we treat each other , hopw badly we treat children and how badly we treat animals , we are a species enslaved to our ego!

there are far too many humans now lacking compassion for their fellow humans and animals

I read this today though which is amazing the humanimal trust sounds so good

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
a reply to: Peeple

Just cause you "think" something is a mental illness doesn't make it so.

The point was that the world health organisation has classified it as a mental health condition
not any member of the public , however the OP article states that with new research the WHO will likely change this classification upon next publication.

As with any scientific field of study we'd all expect them to update and re-classify with new information and facts which challenge the established classification.

a reply to: sapien82

This humanimal trust?

a reply to: birdonwire

Ahhhh... the good old fashioned Appeal To Authority fallacy. Or as Locke called it, argumentum ad verecundiam. It looks really impressive when you point out his credentials, but I find it interesting that after nearly 30 pages, your only source of support so far is McHugh and blatant misrepresentation of how transgendered individuals are viewed per DSM V. It's like when young earth creationists trot out the one lone Geologist who uses BS science to support his contentions despite 98% of all Geologists disagreeing with his premise and the fact that he utilizes accepted geology practices when helping Australian mining conglomerates locate Uranium deposits. But I digress...

McHugh has a long history of bullying those who work under him. Like when he instructed Dr. Jon Meyer to conduct the study that helped McHugh make the case for closing John's Hopkins gender identity clinic in 1979. He admits that he was only interested in an outcome that would lean towards his own preconceived notions of transexuals. That's not science, its using the facade of science to push an agenda. An agenda you are apparently OK with since Dr. McHugh appears to be your hero of the day.

McHugh also still heavily relies on a largely discredited "autogynephilia theory" put forth by Ray Blanchard and J. Michael Bailey, filed an amicus curae brief in Hollingsworth v. Perry (2009) asserting that homosexuality is a choice and was part of a hate filled, venom spewing campaign against Kansas abortion provider George Tiller who was eventually assassinated because of his work.

Should we discuss the dishonest tactics used by McHugh where he draws false and offensive parallels between transgendered patients and patients with bulimia, anorexia and body dysmorphia in an attempt to convince people like you that their gender issues are not based in physical reality? To say that Dr. McHugh cherry picks data to suit his confirmation biases is being generous. But unlike McHugh, I'll stick to facts and keep my personal feelings about the man out of the conversation.

“This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. … The transgendered suffer a disorder of “assumption” like those in other disorders familiar to psychiatrists. With the transgendered, the disordered assumption is that the individual differs from what seems given in nature—namely one’s maleness or femaleness. Other kinds of disordered assumptions are held by those who suffer from anorexia and bulimia nervosa, where the assumption that departs from physical reality is the belief by the dangerously thin that they are overweight.”

McHugh refuses to acknowledge the growing body of neurological and genetic research providing evidence of a biological basis for gender dysphoria. A 2009 study found a correlation between an increased number of a certain kind of sequence repeat in the Androgen Receptor gene and gender dysphoria. Another study in 2009 identified significant differences in cerebral grey matter structure in trans women who had yet to start hormone therapy when compared to cis men. In 2011, researchers noted that the structure of a sexually-dimorphic region of the brain, known as the intermediate nucleus, of trans women fell somewhere between cis men and cis women, while a similar difference was not noted castrated cis men. A 2013 functional brain imaging study of adolescents with gender dysphoria demonstrated a tendency for trans teens to perform more similarly to their identified sex (as opposed to their assigned sex) in a verbal fluency assessment, with similar correlation in brain activity during the assessment. Lastly, in 2013, a large study of monozygotic (identical) and dizygotic (fraternal) twins where at least one twin was transgender showed a far higher concordance of a diagnosis of gender dysphoria among monozygotic than dizygotic twins (33% vs 2.6%), which is strong indicator the existence of a biological factor in a trait. While much of the research into the biological aspects of trans people is still very new, Dr McHugh’s assertion that no evidence for a biological basis for trans identities demonstrates a deplorable ignorance of current medical research.

He then goes on imply that transgender surgeries do not improve the lives of trans people, and are actually causing harm:

“It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.”

Again, he reaches this conclusion by cherry picking aspects that he agrees with and ignoring all data that doesn't support his position. That's not science, its agenda driven ideology when someone completely misrepresents the data in such a grossly egregious fashion because not only does the Karolinka study demonstrate zero links between gender reassignment surgery and their post op mental health, but the studies own authors caution against using the data in such a way.
journals.plos.org.../journal.pone.0016885
From the Karolinka authors...

“It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit.”

In fact, despite what you and Dr. McHugh are trying to claim, studies actually show the OPPOSITE of your premise-

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

As a result of only looking at what one psychiatrist who gloms onto your own confirmation biases, you and McHugh completely neglect to include all of the external factors.
www.thetaskforce.org...
www.firstthings.com...

www.jhunewsletter.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.slate.com...

Reality: You're mentally ill if you actually care about others genitals politically or otherwise.

Specifically aphrodisiomania.

Only perverts really hold such views, as these negatives construct from purely the imagination of the person 'offended'.

It's 2017 and we're still debunking this? Does anyone want to talk about bathroom assault statistics, and how Transgender is more likely to be murdered in a bathroom than harass anyone ever?

The obfusification of this issue is clear. Transgender is a conservative enemy to their platform or Republicabs or whatever. There couldn't be a larger mountain of unconnected evidence to this cause to wreck their 'image'.

Half of you are idiots posting conservative pro-agenda Doctors and then meme'ing "do you even have a PHD?" No. Do you have a PHD either #-face, or are you only here to blow it out your ass that you can consistently misunderstand empirically collected scientific data?

The answer is in the pudding, anyone that CARES is the true enemy, as bogus as eugenics or Hitler, or third wave feminism.

These conversations should be hardly holding a spotlight. They shouldn't even exist, it only serves to make everyone look bad, on all sides. Anyone that needs to be told how to treat another human is likely a lost cause anyway, give it up Phoenix.

a reply to: DoneWithHumans

lol angry sock puppet.