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Paranoia grips the U.S. capital

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posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Here's an article by Eric Margolis of the Toronto Sun. He's one of the few writers in the mainstream who sez it like it is.
Here he goes into what Don "Dr. Strangelove" Rumsfeld and his boyz are now up to. If we Americans let him get away with his sadistic plans, we are insane.




Paranoia grips the U.S. capital

By Eric Margolis -- Contributing Foreign Editor


The film Seven Days In May is one of my all-time favourites. The gripping 1964 drama, starring Burt Lancaster, depicts an attempted coup by far rightists in Washington using a top-secret Pentagon anti-terrorist unit called something like "Contelinpro."

Life imitates art. This week, former military intelligence analyst William Arkin revealed a hitherto unknown directive, with the Orwellian name "JCS Conplan 0300-97," authorizing the Pentagon to employ special, ultra-secret "anti-terrorist" military units on American soil for what the author claims are "extra-legal missions."
www.canoe.ca...


There is NO good reason for this. Someone needs to take Rummy out to the woodshed.




posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Now, George W. Bush, who clearly believes he holds the mandate of heaven after being re-elected by the less mentally active half of American voters, has decided to "unleash" special forces and all sorts of irregular units, including mercenaries, uniformed bounty hunters, and mutants sporting t-shirts proclaiming "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out." These militarized thugs and video arcade Rambos are sure to run amok, dragging America's once good name ever deeper into the mud



This is a poor description of the special forces that are deployed inthe states and overseas. I read the entire article, and he made some points but should have stayed middle line and not gone to the right or left...

Is this truly anything new to anyone, that the gov't monitors it's own people? Murdering US citizens I am not sure about. Sure, there have been plenty of mysterious plane crashes and suicides that cannot be explained (Clinton took care of ALOT of people), but if you want to play with the big boys, that is the rsik you take.

I love the Dr. Strangelove reference ( the big board? they can't see the BIG BOARD?!@!) This would be close to the truth, but i do not think that we want destruction, I think we want to take over the world. We are entering social/economic race with China to see who will come out on top as THE superpower, and that is what Washington should be paranoid of.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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First off all the article says things like "ruin our country". The source of this article is from a Canadian newspaper. Last I checked Canada did not equal the US.

And the CIA and the FBI and the NSA, DoD etc. can do whatever they want. This is why we call them the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the National Security Agency and the Department of Defense.

Where in the bill of rights or the Constitution does it say that they cant? The FBI and CIA or NSA dont have enough resources to investigate people without probable cause. If they were out there killing Americans and arresting them, then Hooah. I know it is for a damn good reason. If not and caught, we have the Judicial branch of our government to handle it.

Tell whoever wrote this article that they are just jealous of the US. "our country" pfff. Canadians are so jealous.


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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The author of the article is poorly-informed about the nature and purpose of the SSB. Either that or he is intentionally misrepresenting the facts.

The SSB is a DIA-controlled organization designed to provide non-military technical expertise to SOC forces deployed overeseas. What made it controversial to some was the fact that SSB personnel are civilians, not military types, and that they operate in conjunction with SOC force in the front lines. The has historically been the pervue of the Operations Department of the CIA. The CIA didn't like the SSB muscling in on their turf, and "somehow" the information found it's way to the public.....

Its just intra-governmental politics between the CIA and the DoD, the same crap that has been going on for years. There is nothing sinister going on here. All the rhetoric about operations on US soil is a bunch of malarkey.....



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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You guys must be unfamiliar with U.S. law.. Why am I not surprised?
until these cowboys seized power, there was some semblence of following the laws. I guess that's not in vogue anymore.

I think there are a lot of Americans out there who are so ridiculously spoiled and unaware of what life is like in places where law comes from whoever is in charge at the moment - they couldn't even begin to imagine what it feels like to be at the opposite end of the gun barrel. In the not-so-distant future, there are gonna be a lot of people who find themselves coming to some very real and very painful realizations regarding our loss of civil liberties. When that day comes, your cries will fall on deaf ears and you will get what you deserve.

Wake up now and see what this administration is doing - before its too late for us all.

And btw, its juvinile to accuse Margolis of being anything other than truthful - or what was that? Jealous? Give me a break.
You're gonna have to come up with a better retort.

Truth is truth, it is neither right nor left.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Ritual
First off all the article says thing like "ruin our country". The source of this article is from a Canadian newspaper. Last I checked Canada did not equal the US.

And the CIA and the FBI and the NSA, DoD etc. can do whatever they want. This is why we call them the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the National Security Agency and the Department of Defense.

Where in the bill of rights or the Constitution does it say that they cant? The FBI and CIA or NSA dont have enough resources to investigate people without probable cause. If they were out there killing Americans and arresting them, then Hooah. I know it is for a damn good reason.

Tell whoever wrote this article that they are just jealous of the US. "our country" pfff. Canadians are so jealous.


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]


Ritual, to start with, the other agencies you mention are, to some extent, controlled and answerable to someone. There is Judicial oversight of their actions.
These Special units running around the country are answerable to who exactly? Are their actions to come under any scrutiny and who will ultimately control them and say who theur targets are?

Secondly, you say if they are out there killing Americans and arresting them then they must have a damned good reason. You jest surely?
You have just condoned murder and violation of human rights without the perps having to show reason or answer for their actions.
It's the sort of action GWB, his government cronies and a few people on these boards attribute to third world dictators and those whose oil they wanna grab.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Pyros
Its just intra-governmental politics between the CIA and the DoD, the same crap that has been going on for years. There is nothing sinister going on here. All the rhetoric about operations on US soil is a bunch of malarkey.....


Huh?
You might wanna expand your horizons with regard to information and sources. Rumsfeld and Goss are currently pushing the CIA out to the very outer limits of responsibility, seizing near-complete control of the budget and are not accountable to anyone for their deep black ops. If you support these moves, you would've done well in the former Soviet Union, commrade.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Yeah but in America I can carry a gun. If someone points a gun at me I can point one back and shoot him and be proved innocent in court of any charges.

What law am I unfamiliar with? moving on...



What civil liberties have we lost? Are you even an American citizen?

The author said such statements as people are ruining 'our' country when the person isnt even a US citizen.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
Ritual, to start with, the other agencies you mention are, to some extent, controlled and answerable to someone. There is Judicial oversight of their actions.
These Special units running around the country are answerable to who exactly? Are their actions to come under any scrutiny and who will ultimately control them and say who theur targets are?

Secondly, you say if they are out there killing Americans and arresting them then they must have a damned good reason. You jest surely?
You have just condoned murder and violation of human rights without the perps having to show reason or answer for their actions.
It's the sort of action GWB, his government cronies and a few people on these boards attribute to third world dictators and those whose oil they wanna grab.


Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Clause 2: He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Clause 3: The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session




If they are a militia they are controlled by the President. If they are military they are controlled by the President. If they are anything else noone controls them, only the judicial branch governs them. If they do break law, the president has the power to acquit them.

So most likely they are outside of the scope of the military and militias and are just receiving pardon from the President to perhaps break the law and invade people's privacy to stop terrorism.

Perfectly legal.

We elected President Bush, we have to trust him that what he does is for the good of the country.

Enough said. If you people ever get any kind of 'proof' of anythign abominable let me know, im sick of hearing all of these accusations.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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This does not surprised me, if some of you have followed the Bush administration should know that he has maintain a tied security around himself, and certain things out or reach and with these all new agencies for "the war on terror" Bush has created his own secret polices to answer to him directly.

Then the pentagon fight as how much information should be shared very soon is for Rumsfeld eyes alone he wants the pentagon out.

I find all these amazing and I have this feeling that soon somebody is going to blow the whistle and everybody is going to scramble.

I always feel that is people out there also in high places that actually are in favor of keeping our nation for the people and not for Bush and Co. including true Republicans not the power hungry alone.

Now when they start to die of unatural causes whenever they oppoused bush then I will start to worry.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Name one person who has been arrested,killed or convicted unjustly as a result to these secret groups?

There is one person that I know of who has publically been charged with the "evil" patriot Act. The jerk that was flashing lasers in cockpits.

These clandestine groups are the same people who keep us safe at night. The same people who stop terror and other acts of violence without a pat on the back or a parade. How could anyone be naive enough to think that there are not military operations ongoing in the US to keep us safe, not steel my liberty?

Are your neighbors bieng dragged from their homes and beaten in the streets, By local police, yes, but not our governments black ops agencies. To be honest, it kind of frustrates me that we allow as much disclosure to the public as we do. Why should we be notified that a there is a possible terror cell in Indiana, and we sent in 15 guys in the middle of the night, killed them all, torched the building and went home. (this is an example, an analogy people.OK) AS long as there is proof, I don't care, They are a threat to the security of my family, and that is why I live in the US and not somewhere else.

Call me a "Nazi", a "bush supporter", what ever..... if you do the right thing, and are not doing anything illegal, what is there to worry about. Live your life without paranoia, but be ever vigilant.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy

Originally posted by Ritual
First off all the article says thing like "ruin our country". The source of this article is from a Canadian newspaper. Last I checked Canada did not equal the US.

And the CIA and the FBI and the NSA, DoD etc. can do whatever they want. This is why we call them the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the National Security Agency and the Department of Defense.

Where in the bill of rights or the Constitution does it say that they cant? The FBI and CIA or NSA dont have enough resources to investigate people without probable cause. If they were out there killing Americans and arresting them, then Hooah. I know it is for a damn good reason.

Tell whoever wrote this article that they are just jealous of the US. "our country" pfff. Canadians are so jealous.


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]


Ritual, to start with, the other agencies you mention are, to some extent, controlled and answerable to someone. There is Judicial oversight of their actions.
These Special units running around the country are answerable to who exactly? Are their actions to come under any scrutiny and who will ultimately control them and say who theur targets are?

Secondly, you say if they are out there killing Americans and arresting them then they must have a damned good reason. You jest surely?
You have just condoned murder and violation of human rights without the perps having to show reason or answer for their actions.
It's the sort of action GWB, his government cronies and a few people on these boards attribute to third world dictators and those whose oil they wanna grab.


These special units running around are governed by the same laws that I am as a US citizen. If they break US law, just like if I ever broke US law, they have to answer to the Judicial system If proven guilty they are given punishment. If the President of the United States acquits them of the charges, no punishment is administered.

Violation of Human Rights? The United States has laws. It is illegal to kill anyone except in self defense or they pose an immediate threat to someone. I said if they are killing people it was for a damn good reason.

So far this is an Anti American thread by one Canadian and a Brit




posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Here he goes into what Don "Dr. Strangelove" Rumsfeld and his boyz are now up to. If we Americans let him get away with his sadistic plans, we are insane.


Unfortunately, ECK, we already have. Most Americans think Rummy is doing a great job and hasn't done anything wrong. At least that's the vibe I'm getting from people in my town.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 09:46 AM
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Oh come now Ritual, don't play the "Anti American" game. I have many American friends who think the same as me and have the same rather dim view of the government. Are they to become targets for arrest or killing because they oppose the government and think the Prez is an idiot?


The reason black ops units exist is to perform covert actions outside of the normal controls and oversight, NOT out in the open to be scrutinised or questioned by congressmen or lawyers.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Also may i note something about being "under his or her comand" thing in the constitution, the president cant control every operation and so must delegate tasks, that person delegates and so forth. That is a military comand structure.
Now the one flaw with this is giveing one person complete control, easily able to cover up or distort any truths or mess ups.
Now tell me does the pres know about every mission the navy seals take part in?
Or army delta or the green beret missions?
Or what the FBI investigates? Or even what the CIA is doing?

To qoute my leader, "I only know what I have been told."



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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The hallmark of the Bush administration.. NO ACCOUNTABILITY.


The reason Rumsfeld is going this route is because he knows how criminal his enterprise and operations are.

The man cannot step foot in Germany.. he'll be nabbed and tried for war crimes. That sure would be something to see.. Rummy, frog-marched before the world..



The Voice of the White House

February 1, 2005: “Two items of interest for you concern the legal attacks on Rumsfeld in Germany and the actual number of dead military in the Iraq campaign. First off, the President is livid with rage over the German court charges against Rummy and his band of trained assassins. An American group has filed war crimes charges against them in the German courts and both the White House and the DoS have actually threatened the German government with “serious economic reprisals” if they do not have the suit dismissed. The Germans have responded, saying that this is not a German government action and they are legally unable to shut down lawsuits in their court system anymore than Bush could stop a civil suit against Halliburton for wholesale fraud and deception in Federal court. The Bush people are so angry, they shout about this. Apparently, the Germans are being passively aggressive and are digging in their heels on this. Let’s face it, kids. Because of Bush’s actions, we are hated all over the world. I suppose the flag wavers think this is great but it is not because there are serious financial risks to these nakedly aggressive and undiplomatic activities. It wouldn’t take much for the world market to discard the dollar as a medium of international exchange and if that happens we are all in for a depression that makes the 1929 one look like a tea party for florists. Rummy doesn’t dare go onto German territory lest he be snatched up and believe me, given the German anger at our threats, this is more than a possibility. How humiliating for Rummy! A nice picture of him wearing an orange jumpsuit with a number under his chin would be a delight. Notice that our press has shut up about this. You have to go to the foreign media to see anything about it. It’s wonderful to see how weak our press is. The reason their publishers can stand up without a spine is because their skin is so thick.

And as far as the death toll is concerned, I have seen the figures from the DoD and your estimate of 7,000 dead is a little high but not much. These slick #s rule that a soldier who dies either while en route to a foreign hospital or at such a hospital is NOT COUNTED on the daily lists. Also, a number of GIs have been captured and this is not listed and what especially is not listed and is strictly classified and forbidden to even hint at is that the rag heads have aced quite a few and cut not only their heads off but other body parts as well. The French AFP has pictures of some of the chopped up corpses, still in uniform, but believe me, we will never see any of these in the States. No paper would dare to publish them at the risk of losing all their advertising overnight. It’s so comforting to live in a free country. Which one? Certainly not this one.
tbrnews.org...


I can't believe this is what my nation has become. You Bush sycophants are nothing but an embarassment to this once great country of ours and impediment to justice.
Congratulations, commrades.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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All those saying that the reporter is not American,if you looked at the article from the Canadian paper, he is listed as a Contributing Foreign Editor. Andif you check his bio - www.ericmargolis.com... -
and see his schooling, you can figure he is in fact American.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by sensfan
All those saying that the reporter is not American,if you looked at the article from the Canadian paper, he is listed as a Contributing Foreign Editor. Andif you check his bio - www.ericmargolis.com... -
and see his schooling, you can figure he is in fact American.


Thanks for that info.


In today's political climate, if you are not a lock-step follower of the Bush regime, you are anti-American. For those who have never considered reading the documents written by our founding fathers (namely the Federalist Papers) on our nation's founding.. you might be shocked to learn, the authors of our constitution and Bill of Rights would be spinning in their graves if they could see the state of our nation today.


EDUCATE YOURSELF!



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Really? Nothing in his biography indicates he is American that I can see.

I mean he attended Georgetown University. New York University, School of Foreign Service BSFS, and the University of Geneva in Switzerland.

I guess he is both a citizen of the United States and Switzerland since he has been to school in both places according to your deductive logic.




[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Has become? Did you now just take your head out of the sand, look around, and stick it back in?

Where in history has any dominant government not become corrupt? Where in history has not any dominant government fallen?

What is ubelieveable is for anyone to think America is some utopia of glory. What is more unbelieveable is to think her citizens will not be come as corrupt as their masters.



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