U.S. nuclear plants hacked

a reply to: Virole

The only way they could do anything is if they had direct access to the computers on site. Those running the plants are not idiotic enough to connect anything meaningful to the Internet or in a way as to make their system susceptible to an outside attack.

Do you have sources for what Congress and DoD reported? Also sources for the 90% dead figure. I'd like to read what you have read?

a reply to: ketsuko

OK. If it was "catastrophic" sure it could be a big deal. It isn't and the chances of an attack that would effect the entire country is so minimal you may as well worry about asteroids, earthquakes, or being struck by lightning.

originally posted by: Virole
a reply to: Blaine91555

At least acknowledge, if the media wanted to they could easily spin this as a thwarted attack on the American people as a pretext for war given the timeline of finger pointing didn't allow for a real investigation.

If you can't who did it, how can you say where it originated?

Why do you think the media would want to start a war with Russia? No matter the issues surrounding politics and the media, they are not insane.

I just don't see a story here beyond business computers being hacked looking for information.

Do you have sources for what Congress and DoD reported? Also sources for the 90% dead figure. I'd like to read what you have read?

According to the Congressional EMP Commission, a single warhead delivered by North Korean satellite could blackout the national electric grid and other life-sustaining critical infrastructures for over a year-killing 9 of 10 Americans by starvation and societal collapse.

Two North Korean satellites, the KMS-3 and KMS-4, presently orbit over the U.S. on trajectories consistent with surprise EMP attack.

Why do the press and public officials ignore or under-report these facts? Perhaps no administration wants to acknowledge that North Korea is an existential threat on their watch.

thehill.com...

Link to commissions actually PDF is in the article.
Directly related to EMP but applicable in any mid to long term grid failure.

originally posted by: Yourmomsentme
a reply to: ketsuko

OK. If it was "catastrophic" sure it could be a big deal. It isn't and the chances of an attack that would effect the entire country is so minimal you may as well worry about asteroids, earthquakes, or being struck by lightning.

They were hard-pressed in New York after Sandy. Think about it.

a reply to: Blaine91555

What you say is true and even more so. A computer failure is picked up by a backup computer. Operational communications is handled differently by different utilities but it is all closed system. In the event of a total control and computer failure all power plant systems are designed to fail in a safe position. Not to say that things always work as designed.

But what is certainly NOT the case is that someone can "hack" the system from some remote location and push a keystroke and somehow "order" the plant to blow up. No way no how.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Yourmomsentme
a reply to: ketsuko

OK. If it was "catastrophic" sure it could be a big deal. It isn't and the chances of an attack that would effect the entire country is so minimal you may as well worry about asteroids, earthquakes, or being struck by lightning.

They were hard-pressed in New York after Sandy. Think about it.

It stuns me to see people think that a major power grid disruption would not be catastrophic. My parents have property that has a natural gas well and a generator on it.

In a prolonged outage, i can always head there.

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: Blaine91555

What you say is true and even more so. A computer failure is picked up by a backup computer. Operational communications is handled differently by different utilities but it is all closed system. In the event of a total control and computer failure all power plant systems are designed to fail in a safe position. Not to say that things always work as designed.

But what is certainly NOT the case is that someone can "hack" the system from some remote location and push a keystroke and somehow "order" the plant to blow up. No way no how.

All larger facilities and critical infrastructure control systems are air gapped.
search nerc and ferc
we have been working on this for years

a reply to: Virole

Thank you.

That's certainly some scary stuff to ponder.

a reply to: whywhynot

I can't help but wonder how much of this stuff is fear mongering for various agencies to get a bigger piece of the budget pie. Possible, but exaggerated greatly.

Our power grid has always been a target, hell even eco terrorist aim for them.

I was reading once that our grid is extremely fragile.

a reply to: annoyedpharmacist

I don't know if people really don't understand the danger or they are focused on the apples and oranges in this thread. The title suggests to the uninformed that someone can hack a nuclear power plant. Then some folks would assume once hacked someone could do something nasty with that control. That is not true.

Then it is brought up that power grids could be hacked and that could kill millions. Additionally it is discussed that an EMP could damage severely the power grid. That is true but it has nothing to do with hacking. An EMP, either brought on by a solar event or a nuclear explosion is a real threat. If that happens not much to do but be prepared.

But back to the title of this thread, not a lot to worry about that someone can hack into the grid or the power plants and produce a significant event.

The Bruce Willis Die Hard "Firesale" is not how any of this stuff works.

a reply to: Arnie123

The grid is not only fragile but old. System operators know how to keep it safe. EMP would take some of it down and perhaps all of it. The sorest part is an EMP could destroy large high voltage transformers in the system. A lot of the transformers have a 52 week build time in normal circumstances. Just think what that would be if the few transformer manufacturers suddenly were underwater with orders. And, no workers, no materials and no power. Hmmmm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Yourmomsentme

If the power grid were collapsed for any serious length of time, that's about right. Big cities only have about a 3-day supply of food on hand. How many are dependent on medications that have to be refrigerated?

A grid collapse taking weeks or months to get put back up would see hundreds of thousands or more starving and dying, not counting the resulting chaos.

Not to mention that the nuclear power plants that dot the landscape have back up batteries for about 72 hours. Then they will require a steady supply of fuel to power their generators to keep the plants from meltdown.
The fuel has to be continuously trucked in to these 120 some nuclear power plants to cool down the rods completely. This will take approximately 21 days . Any mishap getting the fuel to the generators during this time-frame would result in a meltdown.

I can imagine it will be a little rough getting tanker trucks to all of these locations non-stop for 21 days with the power out and people torching and looting and killing everyone and anything around them.

originally posted by: Virole

Do you have sources for what Congress and DoD reported? Also sources for the 90% dead figure. I'd like to read what you have read?

According to the Congressional EMP Commission, a single warhead delivered by North Korean satellite could blackout the national electric grid and other life-sustaining critical infrastructures for over a year-killing 9 of 10 Americans by starvation and societal collapse.

Two North Korean satellites, the KMS-3 and KMS-4, presently orbit over the U.S. on trajectories consistent with surprise EMP attack.

Why do the press and public officials ignore or under-report these facts? Perhaps no administration wants to acknowledge that North Korea is an existential threat on their watch.

thehill.com...

Link to commissions actually PDF is in the article.
Directly related to EMP but applicable in any mid to long term grid failure.

You do realize you are speaking of a huge EMP , correct ?
That IS NOT the topic of this thread.

You have already been given the facts on hacking power grid computers. So , you counter with information not related ?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Yourmomsentme
a reply to: ketsuko

OK. If it was "catastrophic" sure it could be a big deal. It isn't and the chances of an attack that would effect the entire country is so minimal you may as well worry about asteroids, earthquakes, or being struck by lightning.

They were hard-pressed in New York after Sandy. Think about it.

As I was told once, "every line technician carries a large screwdriver." Old Fashioned tech repair. Good for what ails ya.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: whywhynot

I can't help but wonder how much of this stuff is fear mongering for various agencies to get a bigger piece of the budget pie. Possible, but exaggerated greatly.

I'm retired from a senior position in utility power operations and maintenance. No dog is this fight now. Started my life ranching and went back to ranching in retirement.

To answer your question, like all government entities utilities are certainly motivated to spend your money. Classic if you don't spend it you lose it attitude. BUT, the entire system is very old. Like the interstate system. There are not enough upgrades to keep it viable. Almost all of the Nuclear powers plant have passed their design life and continue life with upgrades. Read bandaids. The grid is old and undersized for the growth that has occurred in the last 20 years.

With all of that said engineers and managers apply funds to the most visible and critical systems first. Things will be ok in the near term but 20 years from now, it could get interesting. EMP? All bets are off.

a reply to: Yourmomsentme

Edit - I think the population is somewhere between 300 and 350 million. I doubt if an attack on the power grid would kill off half the U.S.

They would have to hit more than nuclear which makes up a fraction of our energy mix.

An EMP would be worse.

Either one would have large loss of life though as most cities have a 3-7 day food supply.

The high voltage lines leaving nuclear power plants run from 230,000 to 765,000 volts.
By the time this voltage is stepped down to house current levels over a wide area the size of a political polling precinct ,its been switched many times through our domestic infrastructure.

Unless the NWO provided kill switches to major powers like Russia that are now cold war remnants accessible to hackers, I'm thinking this is a hoax.
Could we even recognize foreign intervention if the media doesn't steer us in that direction?

a reply to: Gothmog

One, the topic, written by me, was about pondering the potential effects of wide spread grid failure. Conversation piece brought up by a hack on a power plant reported by msm as a potential probe, mapping systems.

Two, citing a Congressional study on the effects of an emp to Blaine as my source the government saying up to 90% of Americans could die as a result of catastrophic grid down situation.

Three, if you aren't worried about it. Then why comment. The person I was responding to said , thank you so I must have been sufficient for the conversation but not for you I suppose.

Enjoy your evening.