A Terrifyingly Unchecked 7 Minute Launch Window.

a reply to: 123143

There is no "button".

It's a myth.

There are multiple independent air, land and sea based weapons / launching systems.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: 123143

There is no "button".

It's a myth.

There are multiple independent air, land and sea based weapons / launching systems.

I did use quotes.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

The button is an analogy for whatever the actual process is.

Obviously..

a reply to: watchitburn

Agreed every political system has its failures..

How about just a big 3 consensus..

Pres.. secretaries of defense and state..

ANYTHING to make sure some idiot on a mental break doesn't do it.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Yea but it won't happen because a room full of military contractors wants it.. it will happen because a nuclear power goes to fall.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The president isn't required to tell the vice.

I'm telling you by design, because of the 7 min launch window. They have specifically removed everyone who could say no or question the order.


Hypothetically a guy walks up to the president and Says "sir our intelligence says Russia just launched. Do we retaliate? You have about 90 seconds to decide..."

So to fit those requirements.. there is no one else the president calls.

Then when actually giving the order. The person actually flipping the switch to launch, BY DESIGN is a nobody too low level to think he has the right to disobey an order.

The set up is to stop some one who objects from stopping a launch when "every one " agrees we need to.

The side effect is that if A president ever snaps, there is no check and balance.

a reply to: 123143

The people at the bottom don't have the intelligence (not smarts, facts) enough to know one way or the other weather they should launch.

They are just the missle guy. Not the international relations guy..

If the call went to some 4 star general who personally knows the president and the adversary. He could realize the president had snapped, we were on good terms with those people.

But the president calls some lutenient or master Sargent who has never even met the president. To stop from personal feelings stopping a "needed launch".

The president says jump by design the military says how high.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The president isn't required to tell the vice.

I'm telling you by design, because of the 7 min launch window. They have specifically removed everyone who could say no or question the order.


Hypothetically a guy walks up to the president and Says "sir our intelligence says Russia just launched. Do we retaliate? You have about 90 seconds to decide..."

So to fit those requirements.. there is no one else the president calls.

Then when actually giving the order. The person actually flipping the switch to launch, BY DESIGN is a nobody too low level to think he has the right to disobey an order.

The set up is to stop some one who objects from stopping a launch when "every one " agrees we need to.

The side effect is that if A president ever snaps, there is no check and balance.

That assumes another nuclear power wants to end the world, there is a reason there is a build up to these things... why we have things like the START treaty. While on B-1's we had the Russians come over a couple times a year for a few days to make certain we were still abiding by the treaty, and we have teams do the same to them.

In a normal war time situation we will have a build up to that point... think Cuba missile crisis, the entire world knew what was going on they were just waiting to see if someone to break and fire.

The problem with the Russia (just a place holder name) first strike aspect, is they still lose and they know it that is why they did not do a first strike during the height of the cold war.

Our subs would still obliterate their country.

Now if you want to be concerned about a NK trying to nuke south korea or japan, that does not concern me either, they have to know that china would eat them for lunch before we finished mobilizing, if for no other reason than to keep us away from the yalu river.

A dirty bomb though is something that actually concerns me..

Seriously, it is not an enlisted person that will be handling a launch, assembly, maintenance, transport... yea you will see some enlisted names/ranks in there. But when it is time to go boom, not a one.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You make valid points, I can't argue against them. But the system has been in place since we developed nukes with zero unintentional nuclear launches.

So technically it's been 100% effective. Probably the only program the US Govt can claim to have been 100% successful for such a long period of time.

I just don't see a better solution that doesn't put a computer or unelected/appointed person in charge of our nukes.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

i has not been able to listen to the podcast - but :

the devil is in the details

Well he was basically drummed out of the army when he refused to retract his question..

when has the us army ever had " button pushers " crewing the US nuclear weapons arsenel ????????????????

the only nuclear weapons that i am aware that the US army every had control of - were 203mm howitzer rounds and the " davvy crocket " all of which had multiple levels of inbuilt security that required the co-operation and collaboration of multiple people to release them from storage bunkers , assemble and fire

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Ohanka

No there are not..

Maybe it is two staff sargents working the whatever.. maybe there are 4..

But period BY DESIGN.. specifically so no one with anywhere near the authority to countermand the order , is in the chain of command.

No one...

They specifically have it set up that way to stop anyone from interfering.

Yes, there is. While the President is the only person who can initiate a nuclear response / attack, we use a 2 man rule in order to authorize their release. The secretary of Defense must also authorize a launch. That double verification, the President and SecDef, is ordered through the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. The chairman of the joint chiefs would then be the one to issue the launch command.

Gold codes are issued to the President and the Vice President. If the President goes bonkers the Vice President and cabinet can use the 25th amendment to prevent the launch.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

The example you mentioned w/Nixon made me think of Lil' Kim. In North Korea there are most likely no checks and balances to make sure the launch is absolutely necessary.

To think that one person has such power and authority - JUST one - is scary.

If it's like that here, it's more likely the same in NK. Just sayin.'

Get the popcorn, folks. It's going to be an interesting Summer.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Funny how now it's an issue, but no one had a problem with it before.

The President is Commander in Chief of the US armed forces. Of course he has final say over when to launch nukes.

Would you rather have some unelected beaurocrat making that decision?

Or an un-elected despot like Kim Jong Un?

I'd be willing to bet that no one in NK would challenge him should the time come, which, imho, will.

a reply to: dianajune

And why I think it is likely a long term inevitability that we blow ourselves up..

a reply to: Xcathdra

I posted a link to the radio lab story where they interviewed an ex sec or defense. He is the one who said there was no one else in the chain of command.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Imagine how terrifying it would be to think of the fact that we did have a President that was suffering from Alzheimer's while in office..... during a Cold War with the Soviet Union.

Even more terrifying... Imagine an old witch that cackled after saying 'we came, we saw, he died' with her finger on the nuclear button, she would probably call it a 'reset button'.

Do you remember when Reagan was getting ready for his weekly radio address in August '84, and during a sound check he said "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.?"

The Soviet Army went on alert, which wasn't withdrawn for about a half hour.

We came very close to WW3. My mother, who was NOT a Reagan fan, was royally pissed. I will never forget her reaction to what could have been a very fatal faux pas.

Thankfully that wicked witch didn't get into the Oval Office but it is my understanding she might try again in 2020. I pray the Rapture of the Lord's church will happen beforehand.

But that's the subject of another thread.

If the OP is accurate, it does not scare me. It should, how ever, scare the crap out of offending countries. Imagine how that little bobble headed figure on the KP feels about it.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Considering the many nut cases and egomaniacs that have ruled over nuclear capable nations I can only believe a higher power has prevented them launching. When a leader becomes ill or senile I can imagine them (someone like Trump) thinking I can change the who world before I go! Take out NK and I will be remembered forever! It has not happened just as the sun and the asteroids have not taken us yet...when it is time.

I believe the Lord is in absolute control but at the same time we were all given freedom of choice (whether or not to accept the gift of salvation from His Son Jesus, etc).

Don't forget end time Scripture that tells us of "wars and rumors of wars" (someone said rumors would be better translated "threats.").

I believe nuclear war will occur....and the likelihood of that happening increases as we get closer to "The End."

a reply to: dianajune

I feel you are absolutely correct. We have read the book, now we are watching the play. My choice of course.

Agreed when it is time.