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POLITICS: Halliburton Wins Again

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posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:31 AM

Originally posted by esdad71
Who cares, people are employed. You can have outsourcing (no job, China has a billion workers ready for labor) or you can take your salary. As long as I have a job, and I can support my family, I could care less what the CEO of my company makes.

You cannot have it both ways, and soon, if we are not careful, we won;t even have a choice.

This is not the case though. More and more jobs are being outsourced to other countries because the labor is cheaper. Saying who cares about the "sweetheart deals" and the "stealing" because these companies are keeping people (Americans) employed. This just isn't so. The companies CAN have it both ways and the people that count on these jobs are lucky to get it one way.


posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:38 AM
Actually you are right Drlove as long as is a war somewhere or the defense budget is big the jobs will be available, now this companies also has contracts in other countries.

So yes I will have to agreed that while wars is making the big boys richer, the local people regular Joe will get to keep his job also.

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:48 AM

Originally posted by marg6043
So yes I will have to agreed that while wars is making the big boys richer, the local people regular Joe will get to keep his job also.

Right, but like I said before, this isn't the case. Maybe we're talking about different kinds of jobs here. There are few available jobs in my field right now, and there hasn't been for the past few years. What jobs are we talking about?? I think everybody has their own definition of a 'good' job.


posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 10:59 AM
I said jobs that pay over 50 thousand dollars a year and not manual labor required but how to used your computer.

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:27 PM
The job market after 9/11 took a big hit. Companies laid people off becasue they were worried, and now money is sstarting to flow again. I know this by the growth of my company. I work for a large software firm and we are now hiring like crazy.

Outsourcing is not the fault of Haliburton, and actullay many dot com companies have realized the error in the ways and are bringing tech jobs back home to the states. Any type of Production factory or assembly line is at risk right now. It is SOOOOO much cheaper to have stuff bnuilt overseas and imported.

Almost every major foreign automaker now has a plant in the US, and many in Canada also. I just do not see why HAliburton, which is just another big company, always gets blamed. Lets face it, they all suck.,I hate the fact a person can be the CEO of a company, retire and get 6 million in benefits, and two weeks later they lay off 1200 workers or file bankruptcy.

I do not agree, but when you need a job to support your family, are you going to hold out for 20 bucks an hour if you can get 16.00? I know how bidding works, and how much actually gets to the little guy, but what else can you do? Start boycotting Wal mart, and theres a start, but companies like Exxon and Haliburton will be here forever.

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:44 PM

Originally posted by marg6043
Does any body has a clue how this people works.

Contracts goes in one lump sum (our tax payer money), worker worth, let's said 100 thousand dollars a year company budget presented to the government.

Company hired worker in local area and base on cost of living, small town military base, cost of living about 30 thousand a year, company offer 40 to worker, worker happy, take offer, company pocket for the big CEO, 60 thousand.

Yes that is how it goes, How do I know? I know. Its no questions not monitoring no nothing tax payer money is given away as lump sums for projects but not body monitors the big boys.

I'm not sure you could be more wrong, marg.

The work being done by KBR is billed after the services are completed. In no way shape or form are these "lump sum contracts". If it was a lump-sum contract, the audit wouldn't be going on because the government would have awarded a "turn-key" operation and there's basically no way to overcharge once you've been paid for a turn-key. The only thing you can do at that point is minimize your own cost to try to increase the percent profit you get from that lump sum. That's not the case at all here. This is basically a cost-plus contract...hence the concern of over-billing has to be investigated because in a cost-plus contract that could happen. What I haven't ever heard clearly is whether the concern is that KBR didn't "shop for the best price" and therefore passed on high costs to the government, or whether the allegation is that they over-billed, double-billed, or whatever. I don't believe that's ever been made clear to me.

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 01:22 PM
Valhall I know about this do to my husband line of work, it is a complicated process, when he submit his pay, it goes to three different companies before he gets his check and each worker is worth a lump sum, but what they pay them is less that the actual value set per worker. By the way I will only said that he falls under Lockheed Martin defense contract.

He knows his value and he knows how much the company allocates for his job but his contract is for half of what the original funds is allocate for, the rest of the money stays within the company, once the bid is done what the company does to get the product is the company discretion as long as the death lines are met.

Some people think that they are getting a deal but in reality they are under pay.

My husband has been long enough to use what he knows to get the most of his value to the company, but he has not reach his maximum yet.

Sorry if I posted and cofused some.

Actually every body goes around the floor to find out how much each of them make due to that the company does not pay everbody the same salary even if they are doing the same job.

Every year my husband gets a bid for his work and he either acept it or ask for more, and when he does not get what he wants is always another company to increased the bid.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by marg6043]

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 11:15 PM
Valhall and marge you both are mixing veges with fruit.

These are 'indeffinite delivery' contracts with NO 'lump sum,' per se. Work done is billed, as Val points out. However, many contracts, some coming in under radar, are also based on 'estimates' or FFP (firm fixed price). FFP contracts sell well to congress because they are amount certain. Where the twist arises is in the modifications to the contract AFTER award.

The truly classic government deep well is the CPAF (cost plus award fee) contracts. Most military and space work is CPAF contracts. Boeing, for example) won the Space Station contract for $970million (or thereabouts). Now at well over $6 Billion the Station contract is still not finished. Same contract, NAS8-50000. This does NOT account for the inhouse contracts and work or many of the subcontracts.(page full of NAS8-50000 contract errata)

CPAF contracts are the cream contracts although not always the most lucrative. A good indefinite-delivery contract with pliable contracting officers can be worth far more net profit.

With a CPAF contract everything is 'best effort.' No exact performance criteria and no win/lose for the contractor. The contractor gets their costs (with built-in overhead), technology, equipment and buildings to use, materials and usually all of the 'fee.' Fee is over and above- kind of a bonus.

There are also 'facility' contracts. These may not really be what they seem either. Within a facility contract subcontracts can be let that exceed the face value of the contract many times over.

Back to marge, as she points out her husband gets half (or less) of what is allocated for him. This is classic. A $18 an hour employee may be 'costed' at $54 per hour.

One of the real gems of the (above) Space Station contract was a water quality monitor built by Astro Engineering of Houston, Tx. Astro built a monitor for NASA for $50k. The same thing originally for use on the Space Station through the Boeing contract was $450k because of testing, certifications, etc.
Astro discovered over a two year period it was to expand the contract to $25Million! Astro hired extra book keeping and account people a new contract manager with assistant and bought new equipment as a modification to its $25M contract.


posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Valhall
Also, it will probably completely destroy the big ol' "evil NWO company" bullcrap that keeps flying, BUT Halliburton is getting rid of KBR...and this contract goes with KBR.

So when they finally cut that wart off Halliburton's're going to have to go in and do a replace all and put KBR in for Halliburton everywhere.

The problem is not really Halliburton - the issue is accountability and transparency in government - and our ability to protect our nation from corporate predators.

As far as corporate scapegoating goes - the big guys change front companies like we change socks - they've always got more circling, waiting to attack. ...We need to focus on the system, not get distracted trying to identify each and every new shark. There be sharks. They come in packs, whenever they smell fresh blood. That's all we need to know.

A quick review of the history is in order...

Back around 1850, when corporate charters were still conferred by kings, America broke the aristocracy's back by creating a system to license corporations - and blew kings right out of the corporate equation.

Our leaders rightly feared the creation of a new corporate royalty - that would function exactly like monarchies did - so they also created anti-monopoly legislation. This legislation prevented any corporation from getting too big, usurping the power of government, and re-establishing the aristocracy under corporate cover.

The protections worked, but the sharks have been nibbling it away, one bite at a time. ...Back in the 1960's, activists saw that the bid guys were gobbling up the little guys, and creating monopolies that slid in just under the radar. So they screamed blue murder. They could monitor the situation because the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) was open to the public, and the information was free.

So the new corporate royalty arranged to have SEC terms and laws changed. Now, we need permission to look at the records, and every piece of paper has a fee attached. Computerized access would be relatively cost free - but we are forced to go to New York and apply in person to deal with hard copy. Permission to view SEC records is routinely denied, but even with approval, it costs a fortune to track a company's pedigree. This is called an "economic barrier."

...The corporations that benefit from our tax dollars are not even American. They are international global businesses with more economic and political clout than our nation.

...IMO - If we really want to know who determines US policy, and what our military priorities actually are - we should look into the Bank of International Settlements (BIS). That's likely where most of the money ends up, and where we'll learn about the latest hottest 'investment opportunities.'


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