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The first casualty of the war on terror: accountability

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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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hello all.

A disturbing international trend has developed of late among pluralist, democratic governments: loss of accountability. We, the people, due to the hysteria whipped up by the war on terror, have largely lost our ability and democratic right to hold our elected officials accountable when grevious mistakes are made or outright lies are told.

What happened when no WMDs were found in Iraq? not much, really. Now, wouldn't you, if your son or daughter had died in that war, want someone to pay for such a massive blunder (I have no doubt that it was no blunder, but lets just say it was)?

What about mounting civilian deaths in iraq? how are these treated by the current adminstration? they are largely dismissed as regrettable side-effects of this delivery of piping hot, oven fresh democracy into Iraq.

Are you, like me, worried also?




posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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General Z alleges,


We, the people, due to the hysteria whipped up by the war on terror, have largely lost our ability and democratic right to hold our elected officials accountable when grevious mistakes are made or outright lies are told.
Lets rephrase this somewhat....

We, the people, have largely lost our ability and democratic right to hold our elected officials accountable when grevious mistakes are made or outright lies are told.

Now i nderstand this feeling, and gennerally dont have a problem with this statement
EXCEPT
Its not only untrue, but the reason that the General cited is off the mark, and more of an excuse than a cause.

First of all, we the people have lost NOTHING in our abillity to do something to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions....
Please show me where and when this occured.

We the people are TOO LAZY to take the steps nessisary to hold a recall election, or to demand accountabillity from our elected officials at ANY level of government...
and the officials know this.

Look at California, the will of the people to recall the state govenor and have a new election was only carried out because PEOPLE ACTUALLY DEVOTED EFFORT to do so. They found out how/what they needed to do this, and then they organized, and went out and made it happen.

Unless you write your congressperson for example and spell out for them what things are a priority to you and thus them to be focusing on AND making it clear that they will not get your vote if they dont try to comply (government involves some compromises) then you deserve to feel like THEY control YOU and not the other way around.

Use whatever motivation you wish to DO SOMETHING to control your elected officials, just do it.
You want gay marriage, anti war, legal pot, abortion or not...whatever your cause is.....fine, we all have our wish lists for government.
BUT
dont use your cause as cover to mask citizen APATHY!!!

This being said, again i agree with Generals basic premise, but not his details...

General says,


grevious mistakes are made or outright lies are told.
These are certantly debatable points, ones I wont sidetrack this thread with. Again, for what ever your personal cause (everyone, not just General Z) its your lack of effort thats the reason, not your chosen gripe that there isnt more accountabillity of officials.


Gen. Z hypothosises here,


What happened when no WMDs were found in Iraq? not much, really. Now, wouldn't you, if your son or daughter had died in that war, want someone to pay for such a massive blunder
OK, to not sidetrack and debate blunder or not...lets talk about accountabillity with this question.

Doesnt the "blame" for your son dying in the war (blunder or not) START with his decision to volunteer for millitary service...KNOWING that he could be called to put his life on the line at any time, for any reason?
Doesnt this rhetorical question try to pass off the responsibillity here in the name of supporting a position?
Again Gen. Z, i SUPPORT your cry for accountabillity, yet find your reasoning misdirected.

Gen Z asks another rhetorical question designed to pull at your heart, not your mind.....


What about mounting civilian deaths in iraq? how are these treated by the current adminstration? they are largely dismissed as regrettable side-effects of this delivery of piping hot, oven fresh democracy into Iraq.
First...ALL civilian deaths ARE unfortunate and are to be avoided if able.
Indeed they are being touted as side effects...they are.
BUT
they are also a serious indicator of our nations resolve and commitment to this course of action. (right or wrong)

The "hidden message" of these civilian casualties are...."we will risk our lives, and those of innocents we're trying to help, to come and get you, there is no place to hide."
AND
"if you really care about the places and people your willing to jyhad for, then KNOW that your actions are putting them in jeapordy, as we WILL no longer sit idle and ARE comming for you."

Id say accountabillity goes BOTH ways here on casualties.
Dont excuse terrorist, extreamist, and insurgants from the consequences to their actions.

Gen. Z's final question,


Are you, like me, worried also?
Yes, but only that citizens try to pass the buck on accountabillity.
Yes, but only because continuing a policy of "turn the cheek" and doing nothing to combat a criminal underworld of despots, terrorists, thieves, and thugs is only allowing them to continue their activities without accountabillity.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by CazMedia]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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I guess a strong case can be made for your argument caz, and one I hadn't considered.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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General Zapata,

You honor me by openly saying your CONSIDERING my words.

You honor yourself by allowing your mind to explore ideas that challenge your take on things.

CazMedia says,


You have voted General Zapata for the Way Above Top Secret award.
Not for your profound post or for stating your considerations of my post,
BUT
for showing the SPIRIT of ATS's slogan.
deny ignorance.

In the end, you may after consideration of my words, decide im off my rocker....
BUT
By keeping an open mind to considering opposing views....you have already denied ignorance....
If only others could be so bold. (myself included)



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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thanks for the kind words.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 01:46 AM
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Tell me then Gen Z,
What points of mine did you consider and why?

How have they aided (or hindered) your thinking about this topic?

Perhaps this discussion will help me understand more about my own perspective, as well as engage others to become involved.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by CazMedia
Tell me then Gen Z,
What points of mine did you consider and why?


I considered your contention that this reduction of accountability is also due to the general apathy or ignorance among citizenry who don't care or don't want to hold elected officials accountable.



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