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POLITICS: Israeli Rabbis Pray For Peace Talk Failure

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posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Israeli Rabbis are planning to hold special sessions in over 100 synagogues in order to pray for the failure of the peace talk summit between prime minister Ariel Sharon and new Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas. The organizers are trying to prevent the prime minister from given up parts of Biblical Israel which belong to the Jews.
 



www.news24.com
Jerusalem - Israeli rabbis were planning on Sunday to hold special sessions in 100 synagogues to pray for the failure of this week's summit between prime minister Ariel Sharon and new Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas.

The prayer sessions on Monday will also call for divine intervention against Sharon's plan to pull settlers out of the Gaza Strip and small parts of the northern West Bank later this year.

Rabbi Yitzhak Batzri, one the organizers, told army radio that "the objective is to prevent the prime minister from committing the error of giving up parts of Eretz Israel (Biblical Israel) which belongs to the Jewish people".


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


From what I know of Jewish Israelis is that there is an intolerance of Palestinians that worse then Americas treatment of Blacks in the 50s. to the point of treating them as the "Untouchable" class in India.

This is exactly the type of behavior from Religious leaders that makes people never want to be part of an organized religion.



[edit on 7-2-2005 by alien]




posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Many are predicting a violent split between the two largest factions of Judaism, religious Judaism and Political Zionism. This is just another instance, like the masons, where a large number of people are not told the truth by their leaders. Many think the movement of Ben Gurion and Ariel Sharon was about the holy land of the past, not at all. The behind the scenes Jewish leaders were/are looking for a future holy land. Israel was just a stopover to gather jews together under the banner of religious return. The powerful political Jews who see religion for what it is, a control mechanism, are using less powerful, less skeptical religious Jews as a sort of insulation and moral foundation from which to covertly operate. It's like that with most organized religions, two tier command structure to insulate the masses from the difficult amoral decisions only a 'true leader' is capable of making. At least that's what I think is going on.



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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'Biblical Israel'- which one?

the one grabbed after WW I or the one the Romans took? The one of Soloman or the one of Isaac?

Absolutely appalling? Maybe this is just a little Sharon CYA up front because he would be demanding things the Palestinians can't do?



posted on Feb, 6 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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wow... incredible. A few things, i can't believe they would be praying for more destruction and death, and also would all the jews agree that this was okay if the mosque was torn down and they resurrected the temple of solomon. Imagine how crazy that would actually be.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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They certainly have an interesting view of things over there.
A news report I watched a few days ago had Israeli Settlers protesting the plans to pull out, waving signs that read: "Disengagement = Ethnic Cleansing of Jews"

I wonder what they call moving Palestinians out of areas and desroying their homes.

Here's the report:
0131mideastgaza_300.wmv



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
From what I know of Jewish Israelis is that there is an intolerance of Palestinians that worse then Americas treatment of Blacks in the 50s. to the point of treating them as the "Untouchable" class in India. But to have the religious leaders almost wanting for Diplomatic efforts to fail there really is not any other option except genocide, or deportation.


Now, this is racism to the most extreme extent... You are calling for the genocide or deportation of Israelis because some of the rabbis are preaching that Israel is not separated?....

The Israelis live everyday under fear from Palestinian terrorists, which could be anyone, including Palestinian children who are taugh from an early age to be a martyr and kill Israelis....

I don't think all Palestinians are like this, but a great majority of them just want exactly what you want, the total anihilation of the Israelis. In Palestinian textbooks there is no mention of the state of Israel, none at all. There are government controlled tv stations which teach Palestinian children to hate and to kill Israelis.... These tv shows teach Palestinian children to strap bombs and die as martyrs killing Israelis.... If there is any abomination is the government of Palestine and those in power who allow and encourage the destruction of not only Israel but all Jewish people....



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
wow... incredible. A few things, i can't believe they would be praying for more destruction and death, and also would all the jews agree that this was okay if the mosque was torn down and they resurrected the temple of solomon. Imagine how crazy that would actually be.


Did you or anyone else even read the article at all?.... i don't think you did, otherwise you would have noticed that these rabbis did not pray for more destruction, they prayed so that Sharon would not give away parts of Biblical Israel...there is a difference you know....

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
They certainly have an interesting view of things over there.
A news report I watched a few days ago had Israeli Settlers protesting the plans to pull out, waving signs that read: "Disengagement = Ethnic Cleansing of Jews"

I wonder what they call moving Palestinians out of areas and desroying their homes.

Here's the report:
0131mideastgaza_300.wmv


I wonder if you would prefer Palestinians strapping bombs to their chests, and teaching their children the same to kill Israelis....

I wonder if you know what is like to live in fear everyday on the possibility that any Palestinian can cross into Israeli territory with a bomb strapped in their bodies with the sole intention of killing innocent people....



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:12 AM
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BTW, before you all start talking the Palestinians rejected the creation of a Palestinian state three times, the one reason why they did this is because they don't want Israelis living close to them at all. They want Israel destroyed and every Israeli either dead or gone from Israel.... The Palestinians don't want just a piece of the land, the want the destruction of Israel, or at least the majority of Palestinians want this....



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
I wonder if you know what is like to live in fear everyday on the possibility that any Palestinian can cross into Israeli territory with a bomb strapped in their bodies with the sole intention of killing innocent people....



I wonder if you know what it's like to live in fear everyday on the possibility that Israeli troops are going to bulldoze your home, confiscate your property, raid your neighborhood and possibly kill you or your neighbors.

I wish you had seen the National Geographic explorer with Lisa Ling that aired yesterday, You may have understood the situation a litte better.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

I wonder if you know what it's like to live in fear everyday on the possibility that Israeli troops are going to bulldoze your home, confiscate your property, raid your neighborhood and possibly kill you or your neighbors.

I wish you had seen the National Geographic explorer with Lisa Ling that aired yesterday, You may have understood the situation a litte better.


Can you tell us when and why did the Israelis start bulldozing homes?....

If you have a large section of a population that pretty much almost every week or so sends suicide bombers to buses, restaurants etc to kill innocent bystanders of a different race, would you just allow for these bombings of innocent people to occur, or would you try to separate that section of the population that causes the suicide bombings?....

Yes, some military Israelis do overuse their power...but think about exactly what you would do if one of your family members was killed in a bombing or a close friend of yours by suicide bombers...and if you knew that there is a very high possibility that every Palestinian you saw or had some kind of contact with could have a bomb strapped to his or her chest with the intention to kill you and any other Israeli that they could...

BTW, do Israelis have tv stations that teach their children to strap bombs and kill Palestianians?.... no...



[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 03:16 AM
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I always maintained that religious currents were preventing more secular jews to work out a practicle solution with the palestines long time ago...

Likewise deeply religious arabs arent' exacty helping either, notice a pattern ?


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Countermeasures]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by Countermeasures
I always maintained that religious currents were preventing more secular jews to work out a practicle solution with the palestines long time ago...

Likewise deeply religious arabs arent' exacty helping either, notice a pattern ?


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Countermeasures]


Countermeasure the problem is that for the majority of Palestinians, and for the terrorist...i mean the Palestinian government the only way to achieve peace is to eradicate completly Israel and Jewish people through armed conflict.

The Palestinian government have rejected three times in recent history the creation of a Palestianian state, simply because they want all of Israel for themselves.

Here is part of what the PLO Charter states.


Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

Article 10: Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national (watani) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory.


Excerpted from.
www.netaxs.com...

Here is what they think about Israel.


Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.


Excerpted from above.

The Palestinians do not believe that Israel should exist, or that Jewish people should live there unless they accept Islam and become Palestinians.

This is also the goal according to the Palestinian government.


Article 21: The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.


Excerpted from above link.

So pretty much Palestianians have the right and it is their duty to conduct terrorist acts against Israelis, and it is the duty of every Palestinian and of the government to train and to "teach" other Palestinians how to kill Israelis until they all leave Israel.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Here is a link which backs what i said about Palestinian schoolbooks not mentioning the state of Israel.


Palestinian Textbooks Don't Mention Two State Solution
by David Bedein, Israel Resource News Agency

(DFJ-Jan/Feb '02) More than 60 new Palestinian Authority textbooks have been translated into English and excerpted by the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace, whose web site is located at www.edume.org

The PA continues its policy of educating its students to liberate all of Palestine (from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea), as its schools prepare their students for an independent Palestinian state. The PA school system envisions a Palestinian state that replaces the state of Israel - no mention of a two state solution in the 60 new textbooks of the Palestinian Authority.
....................................

The concept of peace with Israel is not to be found anywhere in the Palestinian schoolbooks. The peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, based on the Oslo Accords, is not mentioned. They fail to teach the youth to see Israel as a neighbor with whom peaceful relations should be desired.

The Jewish connection to the Holy Land is confined to antiquity. From the Roman period onwards this Jewish link is ignored. The Jews' return to Palestine is described as "infiltration". Zionism is mentioned in a negative context only. The Jews are not "deserving" of Palestine. Hebrew is not considered one of the languages of the land.

The State of Israel, a member state of the UN since 1949, is not recognized. It is referred to by substitute names such as the lands within the "green line", "interior" or "1948 lands". Its name does not appear on any map, nor do any towns, villages and projects (industries, harbors, railways, etc.) created and developed by Israel. Israel is presented as the usurper and occupier since its establishment in 1948.
.........................................

The maps that appear in the textbooks continue to disregard the existence of the State of Israel. In most cases no names are given at all. In other cases Israel's place on the map is marked "Palestine". There are several maps that delineate the contours of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but do not name them. Areas located in the territory of Israel within its 1949 borders, such as the Negev, are presented as an integral part of Palestine. The Arab population of Israel is counted among the inhabitants of Palestine.



Excerpted from.
www.bridgesforpeace.com...



[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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I always maintained that religious currents were preventing more secular jews to work out a practicle solution with the palestines long time ago...


Very true, IMO.
Some just can't stop living in a 3,000 year old story.

Though the latest peace process failed because of personal grudge Sharon held against Arafat. He made a big mistake when he completely destroyed the palestinian infrastructure which took years to build ( to refresh everyone's memory, that happened in november 2001, while everyone was looking the other way).

Anyways, back to actual topic of this thread...
Anyone who prays for failure of a peace process is nuts.
It is not the prayers that concern me the most though. It is the actions that might result from it. Some radical orthodox jewish settlers threatened with violence if they are forced to move out of their illegal settlements and return the land to its rightful owners. I think that by now even Sharon regrets his decision to allow people to build these illegal setlements back in 2000.

One of my mom's best friends is jewish and a part of her family lives in Israel. I've heard quite a few disturbing stories from her, stories you won't read in newspapers.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip

It is the actions that might result from it. Some radical orthodox jewish settlers threatened with violence if they are forced to move out of their illegal settlements and return the land to its rightful owners. I think that by now even Sharon regrets his decision to allow people to build these illegal setlements back in 2000.


illegal settlements?..... Most of the middle east was illegally settled by mourading Moslems who claimed the lands they conquered.... Israelis have lived in Israel since ancient times, they were forced out and finally were able to get back the country, or at least part of it.... now the majority of Palestinians want the jewish people out again....

Are the native Americans also illegally living in their ancestral homes?....after all, the US took their lands by conquest too.....


BTW, since we are in the subject of returning the land to the rightful owners... Ok let's get all white people out of the US and leave the US to all Native Americans only... Let's get all Arabs out of Iraq, Iran and most of the middle east, Arabs where nomads in ancient times and the rightful owners of most of the middle east were other ethnic groups, such as Assyrians, Circassians, Armenians, etc...


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Dude, I am talking about the last 2-3 decades, not some ancient myths and conquests. That is exactly why the situation is messed up there. People just can't stop living in the past and start living in the 21st century.

I am talking about the modern age when laws and courts are established and where people have legal ownerships of the land, and piece of paper printed in 20th century to prove that. When someone has such claim to a piece of land, legaly you can only get that land by buying it from the rightful owner. If you kick him out and build your own house there, that is illegal.

You can't compare Israel with native americans. Native americans are a completely different story with completely different background, history, reasons and actions.

Israelis of today are not the bloodline of original 12 tribes of Israel. They are converts from all over the world. Some converted only recently, 20th century, and got a piece of land in west bank/gaza based on that. That land they got used to belong to someone, it didn't appear out of thin air. Also, since when does the claim "my god said long time ago the land is mine so give it to me" count as legaly acceptable claim of ownership in the 21st century??! That is just messed up.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
Dude, I am talking about the last 2-3 decades, not some ancient myths and conquests. That is exactly why the situation is messed up there. People just can't stop living in the past and start living in the 21st century.


Ancient myth?...there is no ancient myth in the knowledge that Israelies have lived in the middle east since ancient times, dude...

Since you say people should live in the 21 century why don't Palestinians give up the past and accept the fact that the state of Israel has been in existance for 57 years? That's more than what you said about the last 2-3 decades....




Originally posted by paperclip
I am talking about the modern age when laws and courts are established and where people have legal ownerships of the land, and piece of paper printed in 20th century to prove that. When someone has such claim to a piece of land, legaly you can only get that land by buying it from the rightful owner. If you kick him out and build your own house there, that is illegal.


Ok, let's return Palestine then to the Ottoman Turks who were the rightful owners until 1918, that's the 20th century still you know..., when the Brittish, with the help of the Arabs, took the lands from the Turks and gave it to the Arabs.... so let's expel all Arabs and all Israelies...... hey, it should be the land of nobody....perhaps that way all conflict will end....




Originally posted by paperclip
You can't compare Israel with native americans. Native americans are a completely different story with completely different background, history, reasons and actions.


You can't?....care to explain exactly how is it so different?.... Israelies lived in Israel for a long time, it was their ancestral home and they were expelled by conquering armies... What happened to the native Americans paperclip?....



Originally posted by paperclip
Israelis of today are not the bloodline of original 12 tribes of Israel. They are converts from all over the world. Some converted only recently, 20th century, and got a piece of land in west bank/gaza based on that. That land they got used to belong to someone, it didn't appear out of thin air. Also, since when does the claim "my god said long time ago the land is mine so give it to me" count as legaly acceptable claim of ownership in the 21st century??! That is just messed up.


Quite a few of them are descendants of the original bloodlines...and anyways now-a-days very few people can claim to be "part of original bloodlines".... So, if we are going to give all lands to "the original bloodlines"...we will have to split a lot of countries into very small parts...people should be the descendants of many different nations too....

Let's see... i should own a small part of northern Spain, the Canary island, China, Cuba, Africa, and a few other countries in between... my bloodline is very extensive and is the result of many original bloodlines.....the same can be said of most people in the world ...

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:08 AM
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Time to cut all the crap about the poor Israelis/Jews returning to land that they were forced out of hundreds/thousands of years ago.

Most of those settling in Israel today are not even ethnically connected to the area but are from European races. Simply saying they are entitled to the land by some divine right is quite ridiculous.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
Time to cut all the crap about the poor Israelis/Jews returning to land that they were forced out of hundreds/thousands of years ago.

Most of those settling in Israel today are not even ethnically connected to the area but are from European races. Simply saying they are entitled to the land by some divine right is quite ridiculous.


no...it's time to cut the crap about those poor Palestinians claiming that it is their land...when they don't have a state of Palestine yet...




The State of Palestine was unilaterally proclaimed on November 15, 1988, by the Palestinian National Council, the legislative body of the PLO, in Tunis. At the time, the PLO did not have control over any part of Palestine (or any other territory), and therefore the State of Palestine did not fulfill one of the typical requirements for an autonomous state - namely, being in possession of sovereign territory. However, the declaration laid claim to the whole of Palestine, as defined by the British Mandate of Palestine, which includes the whole of Israel.


Excerpted from.
en.wikipedia.org...


The State of Israel has more right of existing than a State of Palestine.

The declaration of independance by the State of Israel was proclaimed in 1948....which is 40 years before 1988...

So, by law Israel belongs to Israelis, or Jewish people.



[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]



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