China dispatches military vessels and fighter jets to warn off US warship sailing near disputed isla

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Zaphod58

What few seem to realize is just how effectively China, or anyone else for that matter, could shut down those sealanes by militarizing those islands.

The US has done nothing to violate that treaty in this instance. China, on the other hand, has come perilously close to doing so.

UN Law of the Sea Treaty.

It would be temporary because a coalition of nations with navies will either sink them or run them out of th earea for breaking the UN mandated laws of the sea.
It would also be a perfect time for russia and india to annex chinese territory while they are busy.

a reply to: yuppa

Short time? I suppose so. Four months? Five?

Any amount of time at all could spell economic disaster for countries like Japan, Oil producing nations, both in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Shipping by water, time is money... Insurance rates would go through the roof. Products that are perishable would require added costs to keep them from spoilage.

Companies like Sealand would incur enormous added expenses, which would be passed on to consumers.

China knows this. So, too, as you point out, do the other nations that utilize those waters--which is to say everyone. It'd get real interesting, really quickly.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

China has sent military vessels and warplanes to “warn off” USS Stethem, a guided-missile destroyer, that sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea, according to Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang.

“The Chinese side is dissatisfied with, and opposed to, the relevant behavior of the US side,” Lu added, calling the US warplane’s maneuvers a “serious political and military provocation.”

China dispatches military vessels and fighter jets to warn off US warship sailing near disputed island

So is this where the US destroyer politely retreats, laughing, and saying: "We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?"

Or is this where the US stands its ground and engages the Chinese onslaught, bringing in more firepower later if the Chinese dare attack??

I dunno, but it's interesting. Let's just hope we don't hear the news that shots were fired...or worse...

"We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?" Why exactly cannot China not have those islands? Who gave the US the authority to make that deicision?

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

China has sent military vessels and warplanes to “warn off” USS Stethem, a guided-missile destroyer, that sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea, according to Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang.

“The Chinese side is dissatisfied with, and opposed to, the relevant behavior of the US side,” Lu added, calling the US warplane’s maneuvers a “serious political and military provocation.”

China dispatches military vessels and fighter jets to warn off US warship sailing near disputed island

So is this where the US destroyer politely retreats, laughing, and saying: "We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?"

Or is this where the US stands its ground and engages the Chinese onslaught, bringing in more firepower later if the Chinese dare attack??

I dunno, but it's interesting. Let's just hope we don't hear the news that shots were fired...or worse...

"We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?" Why exactly cannot China not have those islands? Who gave the US the authority to make that deicision?

It's more along the lines that China can't claim the waters they are claiming. You can't just ruin a reef to build an island, and then say you claim all the waters around that island you created. International laws says so. And the U.S. isn't saying they can't.. they are just forcing China's hand by sailing where it is legal for them to do so.

If the U.S. does not do this.. who will? And if no one does, what happens to all the countries who use those waters currently? Why does China get the sole ability to create island, militarize then, and then claim all the waters around it as Chinese territory?

a reply to: Azureblue

The Chinese signed the UN Law of the Sea treaty, that's what gives the US, and other nations, the right to contest this. The US is a signatory of the treaty, though has never ratified it. It still honors the provisions of the treaty.

The US has always supported free movement upon the oceans of the world. Having had more than one shooting war as a direct result of this in its history.

Barbary Pirates. War of 1812 (at least in part). ...and numerous anti-pirate operations throughout its history. There is precedence, both historical and legal, to support this.

Take a look at a map that shows the trade routes through the waters in that region. Now, place the combat/patrol radius of aircraft that could be/probably will be based on those islands. China could effectively shut those routes down with bases on those islands. Given the economic chaos that would result from this, the US and the other countries involved are on the right side of this.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

China has sent military vessels and warplanes to “warn off” USS Stethem, a guided-missile destroyer, that sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea, according to Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang.

“The Chinese side is dissatisfied with, and opposed to, the relevant behavior of the US side,” Lu added, calling the US warplane’s maneuvers a “serious political and military provocation.”

China dispatches military vessels and fighter jets to warn off US warship sailing near disputed island

So is this where the US destroyer politely retreats, laughing, and saying: "We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?"

Or is this where the US stands its ground and engages the Chinese onslaught, bringing in more firepower later if the Chinese dare attack??

I dunno, but it's interesting. Let's just hope we don't hear the news that shots were fired...or worse...

"We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?" Why exactly cannot China not have those islands? Who gave the US the authority to make that deicision?

The UN did... That was reinforced when the UN tribunal for UNCLOS rejected Chinas claims by rejecting the 9 dash line map they tried to use to justify their actions.

A lot of the islands China claims belong to other sovereign nations. The most recent freedom of navigation exercise the US did was near an island that actually belongs to Vietnam. When China and Vietnam had their war China seized the island and never relinquished control when hostilities ended.

The EEZ, which runs about 200 miles from actual sovereign territory, is being used by China to essentially seize the entire south china sea. The issue there is an EEZ is NOT sovereign territory but an agreement restricting certain commercial activity to the nation who controls it. This usually means natural resources (oil / gas / fish / etc).

Artificial islands do not create sovereign air, sea or land and by extension dont extend a countries EEZ.

Finally China is running their "sovereignty" claims right up to the national boundaries of other countries, trying to deny them access to the region.

About 5-6 trillion USD travels through the South china sea.

If China wants to keep up the Shenanigans, they aren't going to like the response.

Finally, the US, and any other nation, has a right to freely traverse international waters through freedom of navigation exercises. International waters are what these waters are.

a reply to: RomeByFire

Except you are clueless and the US is doing what the other Asian countries want. The only country who doesn't like it is China, because it hinders their attempt at stealing everyone else's territory.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Zaphod58

What few seem to realize is just how effectively China, or anyone else for that matter, could shut down those sealanes by militarizing those islands.

The US has done nothing to violate that treaty in this instance. China, on the other hand, has come perilously close to doing so.

UN Law of the Sea Treaty.

It would be temporary because a coalition of nations with navies will either sink them or run them out of th earea for breaking the UN mandated laws of the sea.
It would also be a perfect time for russia and india to annex chinese territory while they are busy.

India or Russia will not be annexing Chinese territory, it would just be an instant call for war to other countries in Asia. That is a call for WW3 already. You can keep dreaming also the other countries don't like India. US should not side with India that is asking for another British Empire.

a reply to: Azureblue
Who gave them the authority to have the islands? You do know an international court ruled China is illegally possessing them right? It's already been ruled these islands are not Chinese. China said they don't care, and will take whatever they want basically.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The UN, yea right, as instructed/threathend by the US most likely.

a reply to: seagull

Yes, all very threathening to US interests a? THe US cant permit rivals can they as per:

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.” - Paul Craig Roberts.

originally posted by: fleabit

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: TrueAmerican

China has sent military vessels and warplanes to “warn off” USS Stethem, a guided-missile destroyer, that sailed near a disputed island in the South China Sea, according to Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang.

“The Chinese side is dissatisfied with, and opposed to, the relevant behavior of the US side,” Lu added, calling the US warplane’s maneuvers a “serious political and military provocation.”

China dispatches military vessels and fighter jets to warn off US warship sailing near disputed island

So is this where the US destroyer politely retreats, laughing, and saying: "We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?"

Or is this where the US stands its ground and engages the Chinese onslaught, bringing in more firepower later if the Chinese dare attack??

I dunno, but it's interesting. Let's just hope we don't hear the news that shots were fired...or worse...

"We're trying to make the point that you cannot have these islands?" Why exactly cannot China not have those islands? Who gave the US the authority to make that deicision?

It's more along the lines that China can't claim the waters they are claiming. You can't just ruin a reef to build an island, and then say you claim all the waters around that island you created. International laws says so. And the U.S. isn't saying they can't.. they are just forcing China's hand by sailing where it is legal for them to do so.

If the U.S. does not do this.. who will? And if no one does, what happens to all the countries who use those waters currently? Why does China get the sole ability to create island, militarize then, and then claim all the waters around it as Chinese territory?

Yes, all very threathening to US interests a? The US cant permit rivals can they:

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.” - Paul Craig Roberts.

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: Xcathdra

The UN, yea right, as instructed/threathend by the US most likely.

Uhm - no.

By the ruling against China in their South China Sea dispute, nullifying their 9 dash line bs. A case the US was NOT involved in. But if the best you can do is to try and somehow blame the US for China's actions then, well, your just as lost as china is.

a reply to: Azureblue

Seems like you are happy China is stealing land and threatening war if it somehow hurts the US. Very odd.

a reply to: Azureblue

Yes. Yes. I know that in your world the US is the big meanie.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, there is very real concern on the parts of not just the big ol' meanie US, but on the parts of our allies in the region, and elsewhere about the future intentions of the Chinese as regards those islands.

Look at a bloody map, please. If, and it is an if, the Chinese were to militarize those islands it creates the distinct possibility of a major trade route being closed.

The US, and its allies can not, nor should they, disregard that possibility.