B.C. baby first to get health card without gender marker

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Abysha

Without gender, a guy named Bob Bobson could (in theory) get his identification stolen by a woman pretending to be Bob Bobson.

Yep. And with gender on there, the same thing could happen. I don't think you understand how identity theft works.

I do. And part of it involves the thief interacting with people to get credit.

Hence the gender thing. It's an identifier.

But it's on your driver license.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

originally posted by: c2oden
If my uncle decided to be my aunt he'd still be my uncle.

Would you need to check their birth certificate to make that decision? I'm assuming you wouldn't.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Abysha

Without gender, a guy named Bob Bobson could (in theory) get his identification stolen by a woman pretending to be Bob Bobson.

Yep. And with gender on there, the same thing could happen. I don't think you understand how identity theft works.

I do. And part of it involves the thief interacting with people to get credit.

Hence the gender thing. It's an identifier.

But it's on your driver license.

So?

If gender is undefined, it just makes it easier to fake.

And not everyone has a driving licence (there's at least 2 in this thread).

I'd also like to point out, gender isn't on the photo UK driving licence.

This is a bad idea, hands down
coming over diagnosed.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

Not necessarily. There are intelligent adults who choose not to identify with a gender.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Gender dysphoria is EXTREMELY rare so you can relax.

At this rate it won't be for much longer. It's becoming the norm.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

No. I'm saying that being brought up with no gender it's possible it will identify as no gender.

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

Not necessarily. There are intelligent adults who choose not to identify with a gender.

My point is that child will know at the right age without prompting.
So the argument is moot anyway. We're debating over nothing.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Abysha
I get what you're saying and it's real thoughtful of you to be avoiding the pronouns! You're way ahead doing that.

As mentioned in the OP this is not just about the child's ID . You're right it's ( it?) not likely to be glossing it over anytime soon, however it's the fact it's parents choose to raise it ( do we say IT?) with it already being given ( I say encouraged) to choose its gender.

They are not even going to answer if they had a boy or a girl!

The confusion with this child has already been ' assigned'. What they will teach about genitals is unknown

Well how their parents raise them doesn't sway me one way or another about whether or not gender on a birth certificate is necessary. If we never had it in the first place, it would seem weird to suggest including it.

I won't assume what those parents are planning but I know several "normal" nuclear families who would adopt the idea if it were available to them. They raise their kids like everybody else.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

No. I'm saying that being brought up with no gender it's possible it will identify as no gender.

If that's the case and it was really born that way then ok. But that is extremely rare as I have stated.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Abysha

Without gender, a guy named Bob Bobson could (in theory) get his identification stolen by a woman pretending to be Bob Bobson.

Yep. And with gender on there, the same thing could happen. I don't think you understand how identity theft works.

I do. And part of it involves the thief interacting with people to get credit.

Hence the gender thing. It's an identifier.

But it's on your driver license.

So?

If gender is undefined, it just makes it easier to fake.

And not everyone has a driving licence (there's at least 2 in this thread).

I'd also like to point out, gender isn't on the photo UK driving licence.

So... your entire defense of having a gender on a birth certificate is that it makes identity theft a bit more of a hassle to pull off? Do these thieves not have any friends, 50% of whom would match the bc?

I just don't understand. Don't you find it strange that you own a document that refers to your genitalia at birth?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TerryDon79

If you do know about them then you should recognize your argument as a fallacy.
"What if a parent want to make species unspecified?" "How about the date and time of the birth?"
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Make sure to let me know when that happens.

About as silly as putting no gender on a BC when it's a little boy or little girl.

Reread the OP. The parents said they are letting the child decide later so the gender will be assigned.
So no problem here.

You're assuming the child will pick a gender.

It's possible it won't.

Are you saying that the chld will be too dumb to know it's gender after observing others of the opposite sex?

No. I'm saying that being brought up with no gender it's possible it will identify as no gender.

If that's the case and it was really born that way then ok. But that is extremely rare as I have stated.

Fine.

Here's a purely hypothetical what if.

What if the male child decides to identify as a female with a penis?

Or a male with a vagina?

I'm not saying it will happen. I'm only asking "what if".

a reply to: Abysha

Nobody decides what gender they are to begin with. You are the one saying that. What I'm saying is that I don't see any benefit to having gender on a birth certificate.

Sorry, I'll repeat it again.

If you have a vagina....you are not a boy.
If you have a penis, you are not a girl?

Easy.

Same as I don't have any African descendants in my DNA, therefore I cannot say "I'm an African"

DUH?

It's pretty easy?

I could say "I'm a tree" But I'm not

End off.

Even If I were to cut my Penis off and transforn it into a vagina and grow some breasts.......biologically, I'm an odd dude with a vagina and breasts. True stuff.....honest mate.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Children with gender dysphoria don't decide. Anyway if that is what the child will identify then the gender will be assigned. See? Problem solved.
We can wait until it hits puberty and we'll know for sure.

a reply to: Abysha

Not really.

But I like the way you've ignored everything I've said and only focused on my last reply to you.

Is the end game a genderless society?
Or is it just being what you want to be even if you are not what you want to be?

Keep going down this road and there will be a pervert in every public bathroom, changing room and shower.

A genderless society can not work.
You can't have it both ways.

a reply to: CaptainBeno

You seem to not understand that we know all that. What a condescending attitude you got there.

a reply to: c2oden

Are you afraid that our society will become a THX-1138 society?

You know, just 20-30+ years ago, when reason still existed, the government would have had enough sense to take a baby away from people that clearly have something wrong with their mind.

The minute people were not only allowed to, but encouraged to be a homosexual, or bisexual, or transexual or whatever else disgusting mutant they want to be was the minute that things went south for the human race. You see, the only way procreation works is via a man and a woman. That's it. The only way. The gays can try all they want, but it will never be different, not naturally. Therefore to be gay is to be unnatural.

I'm not religious at all, so don't think that is where my dislike comes from... I simply look at the PURE LOGIC of it and understand that nature never intended for homosexual behaviour for our species.