Another Battle for the Soul of America at Gettysburg

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: crayzeed
I think a good idea would be to round them all up and take them to the nearest army training center and enroll them.
For basic training make sure their training sergeant is black and after training they MUST do two years on foreign assignment before even being allowed to leave the army. If they don't comply, in the brig until they do.
After two years service if they haven't learned their lesson sign them up for another two years.
No exceptions, senators sons, judges sons (or daughters) no get out, all to do service to their country.

The trouble is you can't fix stupid. Giving them military training may not be in our best interests...

I would suggest a return of the chain gangs just for Antifa as part of their education.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

What I think many are missing is that if you were to do lifelike re-enactments with cadavers the whole charade would come tumbling down. Its like after a while they stopped showing the body bags US personell from the Middle East. No one would sign up to fight for the MIC fake narrative.

The glory of war and all, minus the suffering. Yes, what better method of indoctrination. Like on tv where 'actors' get murdered all the time but they don't actually show 'too much', because of 'ratings', i.e., censorship.

We are de-sensitized by tv murder and stupid stuff like reenactments, parades, marching, war movies, whatever.

It works too, by the time we are young adults we've seen thousands of deaths on TV, are pre groomed to take sides, embrace nationalistic fervor, wave flags and defend 'our way of life'.

Now heres a gun, go kill the designated 'enemy'.

I think they should add a civil war era field hospital to their reenactment, they could saw off limbs without anesthetic, todays make up artists could really put on a good up close and personal display of that for the crowd.

You seem to have drifted from the actual topic into a "horrors of war" mode. The OP was about the Antifa thugs burning Confederate flags and desecrating graves as part of their 'protest.' It is apparent that they want attention as they are generally irrelevant and will do outrageous things to get it, much as many spoiled children do. While confrontational flag burning isn't illegal, desecration of graves is illegal and these clowns should be prepared to face the appropriate legal consequences.

a reply to: pteridine

Protest, in this case anti war protest, is always put down by the powers that be, making that into a 'more terrible than war' thing in everyones minds.

Protest properly defined should include some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good.

Like blaming these people for 'dumping over grave stones' and they have done no such thing. Whats that compared to waging unjust war and holy hell, the death of thousands , millions , ongoing?

a reply to: pteridine

I would suggest a return of the chain gangs just for Antifa as part of their education.

Yah, good lock up the protesters, how dare they demonstrate, march exhibit their own opinion anyway...

lulz

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

Protest, in this case anti war protest, is always put down by the powers that be, making that into a 'more terrible than war' thing in everyones minds.

Protest properly defined should include some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good.

Like blaming these people for 'dumping over grave stones' and they have done no such thing. Whats that compared to waging unjust war and holy hell, the death of thousands , millions , ongoing?

The OP was about desecrating war graves, not the evils of war.
Why should protest, properly defined, include "some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good." This sentence is unclear. Are you saying that desecrating graves is somehow associated with freedom of speech?

a reply to: pteridine

The OP was about desecrating war graves, not the evils of war.

The threat of it, not the act.

But do go on, about whats 'right' with war and wrong with protest, (also included in the OP).

a reply to: ketsuko

They are not real anti fascists but rather Anarchist's which is a completely different kind of creature.
A true Anti Fascist would immediately recognize the importance of these site's to all side's, the need to preserve the history and the information and they would never even contemplate desecrating a grave because to do so is to remove the proof of some of the other victim's.

But also they would recognize that the US civil war was not a war against fascism but a war to re-unify a country one half of which was acting illegally and to release people from there bond's.

They would recognize the equal need to preserve the monument's of all side's and to ensure they were monument's to the unabridged truth not a sanitized lie or re-written history, most of those men and boys in that graveyard were simply men fighting to protect there family's and were they lived, in other words on both side's they were simply American's, a few at the top were then as now the criminal's and smashing the past, wiping history out would merely cement there position.

Don't they even realize they are being used, they are being guided and for all the wrong reason's, they are spitting on the grave of Martin Luther King and instead adopting the lies of the Black Panthers, they are the reflection in the mirror that the hidden hand want, the anarchy to destroy the US society entirely and from it's ashed consolidate there own position's of power and in the end they will be worse off for it not better off for it.

Also they are not Anti Fascists no matter what they are calling themselves because they are acting just like fascists themselves but fascists with a different flag.

Sadly if they have no mind of there own they can be controlled into a frenzy and whipped up like this for just this type of action, growing public unrest to bring in more powers to control the population, angry and violent protests to enact martial law and eventually bring in a true police state.

Both sides are being used equally, both sides dancing on there masters string's and in between the innocent always suffer.

A single Simple word described perfectly the sheep on both side's of this engineered divide, stupid.

I'm incredulous at the complete lack of respect AntiFa or anyone protesting at Gettysburg has. That is sacred ground, consecrated by the blood of Americans.

Here's a quote from Union General Joshua Chamberlain (the hero of Little Round Top) who saved the left wing of the Union army and prevented a Confederate victory on the 2nd day of the battle. Chamberlain said the following at the dedication of a monument on the Gettysburg battlefield:

In great deeds something abides. On great fields something stays. Forms change and pass; bodies disappear; but spirits linger, to consecrate ground for the vision-place of souls. And reverent men and women from afar, and generations that know us not and that we know not of, heart-drawn to see where and by whom great things were suffered and done for them, shall come to this deathless field, to ponder and dream; and lo! the shadow of a mighty presence shall wrap them in its bosom, and the power of the vision pass into their souls.

When people no longer learn their own history they will have no reverence for the sacrifices made by those who have created this great Nation.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Gettysburg was a fight for the soul of our nation, the balance was sitting on a razors edge... quite possibly the course of the battle and possibly the war was decided by one mans decision on the first day of this battle.

IF Ewell pushes on day 1 and takes Cemetery hill there is a very good chance that the south wins the battle and this could have changed the course of the war.

The South would have been in position to threaten the Capital or any number of major northern cities, there actions post battle could have brought in outside help or possibly even forced the north to negotiate.

By the North winning the battle it effectively ended the war in the only way it could, this preserved our nation and set its course for the next 150+ years.

So yes... it was a battle for the soul of our nation... and should be protected, studied and remembered for all those that fought in it on both sides... bitter enemies forgave each other.. we their descendants should learn from their example and start talking to each other once more like civil human beings.

I think you stated that brilliantly. The other turning point about Gettysburg was the 1864 Presidential election that Lincoln may well have lost to McClellan who wanted to let the Confederacy go.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

The OP was about desecrating war graves, not the evils of war.

The threat of it, not the act.

But do go on, about whats 'right' with war and wrong with protest, (also included in the OP).

There is nothing wrong with protest as long as it does not break any laws.

But do go on about your previous comment that stated protest, properly defined, should include "some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good."

a reply to: pteridine

There is nothing wrong with protest as long as it does not break any laws.

They haven't, but are already demonized.

War breaks all laws.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

My high school ex's father was really into tactical strategy games of the historical sort where you had rules to factor in terrain and all the units had separate stats to try to accurately reflect their historical ability and strength, etc.

He would set one up and run it over and over in a series trying different scenarios just to see how the battle would fall out starting with how it actually happened historically. Sometimes, he would run the same thing more than once just to get an idea of the odds of what happened actually happening.

Gettysberg was a favorite of his.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

There is nothing wrong with protest as long as it does not break any laws.

They haven't, but are already demonized.

War breaks all laws.

Did we do less to Westboro?

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

The OP was about desecrating war graves, not the evils of war.

The threat of it, not the act.

But do go on, about whats 'right' with war and wrong with protest, (also included in the OP).

There is nothing wrong with protest as long as it does not break any laws.

But do go on about your previous comment that stated protest, properly defined, should include "some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good."

Not to worry, they did protest the war resulting in the New York Draft Riots that killed 120 and wounded 2,000. The great irony here is that troops who had just fought at Gettysburg were the ones who restored order in the city. This is portrayed inaccurately in the movie Gangs of New York, except it wasn't Irish fighting Irish, they were killing blacks in the street in the middle of a very hot summer. en.wikipedia.org...
Back in the good old days when you could pay $300 for a substitute you could avoid the Union draft. The poor Irish resented this highly and took it out on the local blacks (this was after the Emancipation Proclamation).

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not getting into any bible belt discussions. Like war, organized religion is a manipulation of peoples reason.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Asktheanimals

My high school ex's father was really into tactical strategy games of the historical sort where you had rules to factor in terrain and all the units had separate stats to try to accurately reflect their historical ability and strength, etc.

He would set one up and run it over and over in a series trying different scenarios just to see how the battle would fall out starting with how it actually happened historically. Sometimes, he would run the same thing more than once just to get an idea of the odds of what happened actually happening.

Gettysberg was a favorite of his.

LOL! I did the same with Avalon Hill board games and still play Civil War Generals 2 for pc that came out in 1996. He and I should get together, seriously.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

There is nothing wrong with protest as long as it does not break any laws.

They haven't, but are already demonized.

War breaks all laws.

Antifa is demonized because of their violent 'protests' which are excuses for mere thuggery. Attacking Trump supporters because they are Trump supporters is pointless but people like Michael Eric Clanton [bike lock man] don't seem to need any other reason. Fortunately, he is in jail facing two felony charges [and short tempered cell mates.]
At some point, they will attack the wrong people and discover that they are not at the top of the food chain. I hope that they are peaceful at Gettysburg but the South Jersey gang may get out of hand and have their masks taken away.
As a courtesy to you, this is the link to the Antifa website itsgoingdown.org... which provides tips for Antifa Fascists and will let one donate and buy t-shirts or stickers to vandalize with. I think you have to provide your own thuggery mask.

a reply to: pteridine

Antifa is demonized because of their violent 'protests' which are excuses for mere thuggery.

Buzz words aside, compared to war, none of anything protesters or demonstrators do matters even the slightest.

except to warmongers who hide their activity behind gentle euphemisms like 'reenactment', intervention and humanitarian aid.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: pteridine

Antifa is demonized because of their violent 'protests' which are excuses for mere thuggery.

Buzz words aside, compared to war, none of anything protesters or demonstrators do matters even the slightest.

except to warmongers who hide their activity behind gentle euphemisms like 'reenactment', intervention and humanitarian aid.

I see you are back to a war discussion. Let's stay with the OP about Antifa showing up at Gettysburg, purportedly to 'protest' something or another and disrupt ceremonies relating to a battle that occurred over 150 years ago. The protesting part is ok, but criminal desecration of war graves is not. Further, any such protest should be sans masks as peaceful protest does not require hiding one's identity.

Your comment above says that "compared to war, none of anything protesters or demonstrators do matters even the slightest." One could say that about generally anything that was short of war, with war as the measure of import, couldn't one? Maybe you are an anarchist at heart.
In this case, I believe that this is not about war, per se. It is about Confederate soldiers who fought in the Civil War. Antifa thinks simplistically and needs a soft target and beating on the Confederacy is now all the rage. Picking on reenactors of a historical battle could be a good attention getter. These folks seem to crave attention and being violent is possibly the only way for them to get it. Based on their website, they won't get any attention through their artistic or intellectual pursuits. This target might not be as easy as they think and maybe they'll stick to vandalizing monuments and burning Confederate flags.
For example, if a group of reenactors beat the snot out of the Antifa crew, would that matter to you? I would think you would revel in the education of Antifa about the capabilities of the Civil War musket in hand to hand combat. I am big on education, too, and I know I would. I'd even pay for the Minié balls, caps, and powder for a live demonstration of volley fire. As you said, "compared to war, none of anything protesters or demonstrators do matters even the slightest."

You never did explain your comment that stated protest, properly defined, should include "some form of civil disobedience, that is breaking 'laws' that restrict freedom of speech but appear to be upholding all the good."

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Asktheanimals

My high school ex's father was really into tactical strategy games of the historical sort where you had rules to factor in terrain and all the units had separate stats to try to accurately reflect their historical ability and strength, etc.

He would set one up and run it over and over in a series trying different scenarios just to see how the battle would fall out starting with how it actually happened historically. Sometimes, he would run the same thing more than once just to get an idea of the odds of what happened actually happening.

Gettysberg was a favorite of his.

LOL! I did the same with Avalon Hill board games and still play Civil War Generals 2 for pc that came out in 1996. He and I should get together, seriously.

I actually just picked CWG2 up again on Steam during the summer sale, had it when it first came out as well... must admit I did not have the attention to detail it required back in the '90s hope to get some time on it again soon.