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Voter ID, are there any good arguments against it other than fraud?

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posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:33 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Aazadan

This is false. As has been pointed out in numerous threads about this, in some states, such as PA all you have to do is show up and identify yourself as someone that's on the voter rolls. They look for the name you gave and if it's there, they don't ask for ID. That means all you have to do to commit voter fraud is walk in and say you're someone else that you know is registered. If everyone had to produce ID to prove they are a registered voter, this method of fraud would be largely eliminated.

It doesn't do nothing.


Yes, I'm well aware. Voter ID laws don't stop that though. I committed that crime in Ohio despite a voter ID law. I simply told the pollster I forgot my ID. They were very understanding, and didn't want to deny my right to vote, so they let me go ahead and do it anyways. However, arguing over this is missing the point.

In order to change a state or federal level election, you need a lot of votes. Well over 1 million votes to even budge the numbers 1% on the big items. Voter fraud takes a lot of time to pull off. You have to stand in line to vote, you have to go through the ballot, then you have to drive to the next polling place. On top of that, there's the issue that with large organized groups... secret criminal organizations tend to have leaks which would reveal what's going on. If each person can vote 10 times in a day, and you need to move the vote by 1%, then you need over 100,000 accomplices. It just doesn't work.

The logistics necessary for the crime voter ID's are said to prevent in any sizable numbers make the whole thing impossible in the first place.

The problem is that people get election fraud and voter fraud confused. Election fraud can and does happen. Voter ID doesn't prevent it though, despite the fact that most people link preventing voter fraud to preventing election fraud.




posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Aazadan

This is false. As has been pointed out in numerous threads about this, in some states, such as PA all you have to do is show up and identify yourself as someone that's on the voter rolls. They look for the name you gave and if it's there, they don't ask for ID. That means all you have to do to commit voter fraud is walk in and say you're someone else that you know is registered. If everyone had to produce ID to prove they are a registered voter, this method of fraud would be largely eliminated.

It doesn't do nothing.


Yes, I'm well aware. Voter ID laws don't stop that though. I committed that crime in Ohio despite a voter ID law. I simply told the pollster I forgot my ID. They were very understanding, and didn't want to deny my right to vote, so they let me go ahead and do it anyways. However, arguing over this is missing the point.

In order to change a state or federal level election, you need a lot of votes. Well over 1 million votes to even budge the numbers 1% on the big items. Voter fraud takes a lot of time to pull off. You have to stand in line to vote, you have to go through the ballot, then you have to drive to the next polling place. On top of that, there's the issue that with large organized groups... secret criminal organizations tend to have leaks which would reveal what's going on. If each person can vote 10 times in a day, and you need to move the vote by 1%, then you need over 100,000 accomplices. It just doesn't work.

The logistics necessary for the crime voter ID's are said to prevent in any sizable numbers make the whole thing impossible in the first place.

The problem is that people get election fraud and voter fraud confused. Election fraud can and does happen. Voter ID doesn't prevent it though, despite the fact that most people link preventing voter fraud to preventing election fraud.


That's not a case of voter ID laws not working. That's a case of laws don't work if they're not followed. That's a failure of training and/or the integrity of the pollster. That's not an argument for why voter ID laws aren't needed. Laws requiring cashiers to ask for ID before letting someone buy cigarettes or booze used to not work either, but then they started fining stores that failed to enforce it and so employees who failed to do it started getting fired, and now it's a lot harder to find a store that doesn't card. You can still find one here and there but the problem has definitely been decreased.

And your argument about the numbers is not very good either. Trump won several key states by 10s of thousands of votes, not millions. If he had lost them, he'd have lost the election. It doesn't take millions of fraudulent votes to sway an election, even a national one.
edit on 27 6 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27 6 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
And your argument about the numbers is not very good either. Trump won several key states by 10s of thousands of votes, not millions. If he had lost them, he'd have lost the election. It doesn't take millions of fraudulent votes to sway an election, even a national one.


You can't flood a specific state, because again you'll risk being exposed. If you have 100,000 people, that gets you between 1000 and 5000 people per state. Still well under the margins.

Also, if election fraud is in play, then it doesn't matter what names people stuff into a ballot box.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

George W. Bush won Florida by 537 votes in 2000.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: face23785

Couldnt risk it not hitting first page.




posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

You're missing the point. This is one issue. Nobody is saying it wills top all fraud. It's just one of the things that needs to be fixed. All of the things that can happen put together can indeed change the outcome of an election. Just because you can't imagine it happening doesn't mean it can't.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Aazadan

George W. Bush won Florida by 537 votes in 2000.


Which is interesting, because there's some serious accusations of election fraud in Florida in 2000. Then there was the issue with Bush in 2004 too, where it's very likely he won due to election fraud. Hacking Democracy was a documentary on it.

Again though, I'm not actually against voter ID. I really couldn't care less on the issue. Passing it would shut people up, and as I said before it has virtually zero positive or negative effects. I think it remains an issue only because Democrats want it to be an issue. The biggest danger to it, is that it makes people complacent in the face of election fraud.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: face23785Nobody is saying it wills stop all fraud.


Most of it's supporters are.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: face23785

That was some dirty shia'ite that went down in FL that year.

What I learned from that event was that regardless of who or what, the GOP party + supporters were willing to embrace fudged numbers if so be it to win.

What I learned this year was that the DNC was willing to have FAKE votes across the nation in order to win.

And there goes another pitfall of Us vs. Them Two party Divide & Conquer partisansnip. But another example of in practice over the long run partisansnip one of the greatest enemies of democracy that is conceivable.




posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn





Everyone needs to watch this video - I'm breaking it out every time a libtard pulls the 'racist' card. (Hint: Libtards are hyper-racists of the tallest order and this video, and their own brainwashed words, are a testament to this FACT)



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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Nothing wrong with needing an id to vote, it should be law. In brithish columbia you need a government photo id every few years, its pretty helpful for more than just voting, if i remember correctly its around 25 to 30 canadian and its good for 5 or 6 years.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
I simply told the pollster I forgot my ID. They were very understanding, and didn't want to deny my right to vote, so they let me go ahead and do it anyways. However, arguing over this is missing the point.


Voting isn't technically a Right.


In order to change a state or federal level election, you need a lot of votes. Well over 1 million votes to even budge the numbers 1% on the big items. Voter fraud takes a lot of time to pull off. You have to stand in line to vote, you have to go through the ballot, then you have to drive to the next polling place. On top of that, there's the issue that with large organized groups... secret criminal organizations tend to have leaks which would reveal what's going on.


I wont disagree.

Rigging the Election - Video II: Mass Voter Fraud - YouTube




posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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Didn't you get the memo - this video is also fake news and highly edited and Scott Foval and Robert Creamer are upstanding and honest citizens just exercising their constitutional rights?

^^amazing argument innit? Like going into a peyote' trance and tripping out at all the weird.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:56 PM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Holy jumping jesus it's even worse than I thought it was! White liberals on campus thing needing ID to vote is racist???

Great video how the black people completely debunked this.

Is racism like the new liberal answer to any question they don't know the answer for?



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Well lets just take their arguments at face value for a quick thought experiment...


The party of "high information", why are they so bound and determined to have people vote for them that are to dumb to know the first thing about how to use the Internet, too backwards to figure out how to get an ID, too immobile to be able to handle anything?

Seriously, they really want people that would have to be like IQ 62 out swinging their votes?

What kind of intellectual high ground is that modus operandi supposed to be?

TO be so quick to racially demagogue the subject at every term obviously they're awful desperate for it.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Voting isn't technically a Right.


I know. But most people, especially poll workers see it as one.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Apparently its important to keep this reality fresh, now that over the past year I've seen liberals scream for pages that illegal immigrants are supposed to have 100% of all the same right sthat I'm supposed to have being born and raised here, paid taxes here, totally screwed by school loan shark debt here, have sacrificed years of my life 'fighting' for United States to even have a future, etc.

So when we take the libtard logic of 'tax dodging income exporting illegal immigrants supposed to have 100% the same rights as natural born tax paying citizens', and then go 'voting is a right', well yeah no wonder they want no voter ID laws gotta make sure the "rights' of those illegal immigrants aren't violated.
edit on 27-6-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 06:07 PM
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It's pretty basic up here. Pictured government ID(drivers lic. or such) and a piece of mail with your address on it.



posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: intrepid

It's a shame to hear ya'll up thar in Canadia a bunch a racists, eh?




posted on Jun, 27 2017 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I for one, would have no problem with giving illegals the ability to vote, provided they're permanent residents of the US. If you live here, you should have a political voice in the interest of preventing an underclass.

That said, I also only support people voting who are legally allowed to vote, and illegals currently cannot.

But that has little to do with voter ID. If you're going to cheat in an election, you're going to use people who look and act the part of being American rather than outsiders. It lowers the chances of getting caught.



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