Vatican: Bible Confirms Jesus Was Not Crucified

originally posted by: redchad

originally posted by: Raggedyman
This stuff has been around for a millennia
What makes it so questionable is that the original letters and gospels were written and told directly after the death of Christ
Imagine if someone today, someone famous, started running around saying he was executed then rose from the dead and no one actually saw it happen
They would be laughed at and ridiculed
No one would follow or even give them any validity, yet Jesus started one of the largest faith followings ever
Barnabas book, nothing new, nothing not already seen and studied
As for gold lettered writing, that is not really of any. Consequence, sounds like it is the exact opposite of what Christ taught people

Written 2000 years ago, that's another silly thing to say

Hang on I'm under the impression that it is well established by academics and religious historians that the earliest Gospel written was Mark and that was 60-90 years after Christs death and the others possibly over 100 years. It's a bit like me trying to write a book about the start of WW1

The earliest Christian text we have is Rylands P52 which has been dated between 90 to 150 CE. However, remembering that Jesus died in 33 CE, means that your dating of 60-90 years is fairly spot on but this is for text of which we have actual samples. We know that the originals must have been written earlier than that but that most of them would not last 2,000 years.

Rylands P52 was acquired from an Egyptian market and so represents a distributed copy of the Gospel of John. This means there must, most likely, have been earlier originals closer to their point of writing (around Jerusalem).

None of the Gospels or letters mention the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE (the destruction of the capital city and its primary place of worship, the Temple, along with the deaths of over 1 million inhabitants [according to Josephus], was a big thing to both Jews and Christians in the 1st Century) and means that every New Testament book or epistle was written prior to then.

This clearly places the writing of ALL the New Testament within 30 years of Jesus death.

Also, over the next hundred years, despite government oppression, Christianity spread throughout the world and quite early on there was discussion of which written works were 'official' and which weren't.

This leads to the likelihood that there were significant numbers of the official manuscript copies, circulated from early dates.

a reply to: chr0naut

Jesus «died» in 37 AD, after his Sunday campaign for the Emperor's throne-- on a Wednesday at the same time emperor Tiberius was pronounced dead. The following Thursday was a High Day Sabbath» (since Wednesday was Erev Pessach i.e. «Day of Preparation»):

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Words used in John 19:31-37 with their proper translations showing Jesus was salvaged at Calvary:

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nicene Creed not mentioning Jesus was dead, only that he was crucified and brought to a tomb:

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: redchad

Socrates said that the printing press and writing would make humanity dumb because they wouldn't have to remember history anymore
Your point is reasonably valid but in the ancient and near meddle east, oral history was in fact the way history was passed on

It's simple to say things were very different back before main stream media and tv and the Internet, it's true

They had printing presses in ancient Greek times ?

Oops I meant the written word
Silly me

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

Jesus «died» in 37 AD, after his Sunday campaign for the Emperor's throne-- on a Wednesday at the same time emperor Tiberius was pronounced dead. The following Thursday was a High Day Sabbath» (since Wednesday was Erev Pessach i.e. «Day of Preparation»):

Pontius Pilate was deposed as Prefect of Judea and sent to Rome by Lucius Vitellius, the Syrian Govenor, in 36 AD. Pilate arrived in Rome a few days after Tiberius died.

The fastest journey possible between Jerusalem and Rome (according to ORBIS) was 28.4 days by fast ship (in Summer when the weather was good). So Pilate could not have been in Jerusalem to try Jesus on the date you suggested and all the accounts mention Pilate personally confronting Jesus and the trial being rushed because the Jews wanted it over before the impending Sabbath.

The date you suggest is unhistorical.

The majority of historical authorities place the Crucifixion on the 14th of Nisan (7th of April), the day before Pesach (Passover), in the years between 30 AD to 33 AD (inclusive).

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Words used in John 19:31-37 with their proper translations showing Jesus was salvaged at Calvary:

While you may invoke hemothorax and suggest that the spear actually drained the blood, allowing him to breathe, the point that has eluded you is that his whole blood had fractionated into erethrocytes (blood) and plasma (water). This indicates that Jesus heart had not been beating for some time, allowing for the erethrocites to settle.

Also, more than just an incision is required to relieve hemothorax. A tube or something to hold the incision open is required so that the pleural cavity can continue to drain and not simply refill. Any positive pressure in the pleural cavity, above ambient air pressure, will cause the lungs to collapse again. So a drain tube must be left in place until the source of the blood entering the pleural cavity has fully clotted.

If we assume that there was no major infection which would cause a faster Rouleaux erethrocyte formation (and would have taken 10 minutes to fractionate), then the heart had not been beating for greater than 40 minutes and most likely for more than an hour.

Either way, Jesus had to have been dead in a true clinical and irrevivable sense.

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nicene Creed not mentioning Jesus was dead, only that he was crucified and brought to a tomb:

The Nicene creed was established to distance orthodox Christianity from Arianism. As such,it probably didn't enter their heads that there was possibility Jesus had somehow lived despite what He endured.

Crucifixion, especially as clearly described in Jesus case, was synonymous with death.

==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Clearly, you are denying something that was recorded again and again in the New Testament by multiple witnesses, and by a few non-Christian historians.

Removing the resurrection would invalidate Christ's mission and purpose, which was to save us from the consequence of our sin. Invalidating that, then invalidates the Old Testament Torah and Prophets which spoke of just such a Messiah for just such a purpose. If they are not valid,then the God of Abraham is either a liar or a lie. If that is invalidated then the faith and writings of Muhammad, which he claims represent the God of Abraham, are invalid.

You cannot misrepresent Christ without calling God a liar and throwing massive "spanners in the works" of all the Abrahamic faiths.

To This: ....Jesus Was Not Crucified

I say: ... 'Christ', the Teacher or Rabbi, He was the one that was Tried, Scourged, Crucified, & died at the Crucifixation


Jesus, the son-of-man, was only the host body...for the Son part of the Trinity God, Who was called Christ-or-Annointed by the community of followers that gathered as a cult following at first...

so both sides are correct...the Muslims saying Jesus was a Prophet
and the followers of the 'Christ' that in-dwelt the body of Jesus & actually 'took-over' the Jesus body & life, for his own use
which was to fufill the Law & prophecy concerning a 'suffering messiah' that was rejected by his own People living in Judea

a reply to: chr0naut

No, Pilate was released of his position when the Emperor died around Passover 37 AD. In 36 AD there were rumours that the emperor was dead, Pilate was sent to Rome and there the emperor was still alive. Pilate served another year until Tiberius did indeed die, just a few days before Passover in 37 AD. We know very little about Pilate, and until recently there were no proof of him even existing. Can you please cite your references?

ETA: Tiberius died 16 March 37 AD. Crucifying Jesus for high treason was one of the last things Pilate did. There is much confusion about when Tiberius died, since his health was deteriorating and there often came about rumours about his death. Among other in 36 AD. Pilate served until Tiberius died, upon which he was sent to Rome. See Tacitus on the subject ==> www.thelatinlibrary.com...

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: Seede


So if the Bible "Bolsters lack of education" i.e. makes you dumber, yet we aren't dumb enough to believe in it but YOU are, how are we uneducated?

You don't even know where Europeans learned almost all science from do you?

Muslims!!! Historical fact, science came into Latin via translation FROM Arabic and waa taught by Muslims.

The reason for the Crusades was Europe was poor and dirty, almost 3rd world.

And the Muslim Ummah was the most advanced on earth at the time.

You make this fun! I don't know about bolstering a lack of education, but if you believe in it I agree the Bible will make you stupid and evil and have no idea, think everyone else is.

Be careful...

...AS MEANS of communicating have expanded—from printing to the telephone, radio, television, and the Internet—the flow of persuasive messages has dramatically accelerated. This communications revolution has led to information overload, as people are inundated by countless messages from every quarter. Many respond to this pressure by absorbing messages more quickly and accepting them without questioning or analyzing them.

The cunning propagandist loves such shortcuts—especially those that short-circuit rational thought. Propaganda encourages this by agitating the emotions, by exploiting insecurities, by capitalizing on the ambiguity of language, and by bending rules of logic. As history bears out, such tactics can prove all too effective.
...
Playing on the Emotions

Even though feelings might be irrelevant when it comes to factual claims or the logic of an argument, they play a crucial role in persuasion. Emotional appeals are fabricated by practiced publicists, who play on feelings as skillfully as a virtuoso plays the piano.

For example, fear is an emotion that can becloud judgment. And, as in the case of envy, fear can be played upon. ...
...
Some propagandists play on pride. Often we can spot appeals to pride by looking for such key phrases as: “Any intelligent person knows that . . .” or, “A person with your education can’t help but see that . . .” A reverse appeal to pride plays on our fear of seeming stupid. Professionals in persuasion are well aware of that.
...
They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target.

The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say.
...

Source: The Manipulation of Information: Awake!—2000
+ the next page linked in my signature.

See visuals at 4:04 - 5:00 to see propaganda (including brainwashing and indoctrination) in action. Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words, if it's a moving picture as at 4:26 / 4:28 - 4:32 even more (read the body language, what is happening to these teenagers? What's with the back and forth movement, study the field of psychology to find out more if the penny doesn't drop with just the images and my commentary. This comment is for all here):

Richard Dawkins use the reverse appeal to pride as well when he uses the terms "naive person" and "sophisticated physicist" (Lawrence Krauss uses the concept of "in physics" in a similar manner) when he's talking about the word "nothing". I've recently shared this video on another forum but I feel I should do it again because of what I just said:

So sixty some books of the Bible that say he is... versus one long lost gospel from a forgotten disciple that says he isn't. Reminds me of the Google commercial

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

No, Pilate was released of his position when the Emperor died around Passover 37 AD. In 36 AD there were rumours that the emperor was dead, Pilate was sent to Rome and there the emperor was still alive. Pilate served another year until Tiberius did indeed die, just a few days before Passover in 37 AD. We know very little about Pilate, and until recently there were no proof of him even existing. Can you please cite your references?

Sure thing, The Antiquities of the Jews, 18.89 by Flavius Josephus (translated by W Whitten):

89 So Vitellius sent Marcellus, a friend of his, to take care of the affairs of Judea, and ordered Pilate to go to Rome, to answer before the emperor to the accusations of the Jews. So Pilate, when he had tarried ten years in Judea, made haste to Rome, and this in obedience to the orders of Vitellius, which he durst not contradict; but before he could get to Rome Tiberius was dead.

Also,Tacitus in Annals 15: 44 says:
"... Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus... "

Note that Tacitus says it was during, not after, the reign of Tiberius.

ETA: Tiberius died 16 March 37 AD. Crucifying Jesus for high treason was one of the last things Pilate did. There is much confusion about when Tiberius died, since his health was deteriorating and there often came about rumors about his death. Among other in 36 AD. Pilate served until Tiberius died, upon which he was sent to Rome. See Tacitus on the subject ==> www.thelatinlibrary.com...

The link you posted from Tacitus, while describing the death of Tiberius and the confusion over him not passing away within conspirator's expected time-frames, makes no mention of all of Pilate.

I have provided the references of source texts supporting what I said. Please provide references that would support that Pilate stayed in office as Prefect of Judea until after Tiberius had passed away.

Thank you! Great find! Jesus spent much time in the Himalayas. The Tibetan monks keep impeccable records. BBC did a documentary: www.youtube.com...

There are several others.

God lives within and we should love one another and the planet. This is so awesome!

originally posted by: BlissSeeker
Jesus spent much time in the Himalayas. The Tibetan monks keep impeccable records. BBC did a documentary: www.youtube.com...

There are several others.

oh...

If there ever was a good moment to read my signature this would be it.

lol, the Himalayas are listed on wikipedia as having an elevation of 8,848 m (about 5.5 miles) and a distance calculator website helps me figure out that the distance between Jerusalem and the Himalayas is 4219 km (about 2600 miles). Did he take a plane there when he went on a sabbatical? Any good hotels there at the time? Funny how the bible, the primary source and cause for anyone having talked about Jesus since the Gospels were written shortly after his death and resurrection, makes no mention of it.

a reply to: whereislogic

Why would it need to mention it? The fact that it mentions the virgin birth when the Hebrew gospel of Matthew does not, does that mean that the Roman or Greek people who wrote the gospel of Matthew generations after Christ passed and ascended knew more about Christ than the Hebrews who spent time with him?

Your mind believes what you believe because the devil has deceived you and filled you with pride and arrogance so that you will reject the truth and accept what is false. There is no other explanation as to why you are so adamant that Christ was born of a virgin, because I Listen To The Hebrews Over The Romans/Greeks.

a reply to: chr0naut

I've enjoyed and learned a lot from reading your comments. You seem to be quite the well informed apologist. It would be fascinating to see an exchange between you and Krazysh0t. He's quite adamant that there's no historical proof for the existence of Jesus. But of course, there's no changing his mind on that topic.

Two points of interest on this topic.
First, its interesting that so many who don't believe Christ was crucified fail to point out a rather peculiar oddity, i.e., he expired after only approximately 6 hours of being on the Cross, (possibly 9 I suppose), when it was common for many crucified to "hang on" (no pun intended) for 12 or more hours, some even into the next day. Our church experts believe he expired so quickly because he'd lost so much blood from the excessively brutal scourging at the pillar. I would guess that to have been the cause.

Second, no one ever focuses on the bizaare phenomenon that occurred after Christ's passing, the "earth shook", tombs were opened, spirits of the dead walked about and the Temple Veil was rent in two. I suppose people either don't believe that really happened, that there's no non-Christian "secular" historical record of these events, or overlook the events as attributed to yet another earthquake in a region that is prone to earthquakes. I did find this reference:
www.biblewalks.com...
(I can't speak to the veracity of this web site)

Anyway, thanks.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Pilate also has a book attributed to him, wiht even less credibility than Barnabas's

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: chr0naut

I've enjoyed and learned a lot from reading your comments. You seem to be quite the well informed apologist. It would be fascinating to see an exchange between you and Krazysh0t. He's quite adamant that there's no historical proof for the existence of Jesus. But of course, there's no changing his mind on that topic.

Two points of interest on this topic.
First, its interesting that so many who don't believe Christ was crucified fail to point out a rather peculiar oddity, i.e., he expired after only approximately 6 hours of being on the Cross, (possibly 9 I suppose), when it was common for many crucified to "hang on" (no pun intended) for 12 or more hours, some even into the next day. Our church experts believe he expired so quickly because he'd lost so much blood from the excessively brutal scourging at the pillar. I would guess that to have been the cause.

Second, no one ever focuses on the bizaare phenomenon that occurred after Christ's passing, the "earth shook", tombs were opened, spirits of the dead walked about and the Temple Veil was rent in two. I suppose people either don't believe that really happened, that there's no non-Christian "secular" historical record of these events, or overlook the events as attributed to yet another earthquake in a region that is prone to earthquakes. I did find this reference:
www.biblewalks.com...
(I can't speak to the veracity of this web site)

Anyway, thanks.

Thank you.

I have debated with Krazysh0t in the past. As far as I can recall, no one was a clear winner in the exchange. I think we just have to agree to disagree, but I do feel I have the weight of documentation on my side.



Firstly, in regard to the temple veil being torn, it helps to understand that it probably wasn't a simple curtain. it was, most likely, massive and heavy, and may have been laundered or replaced regularly.

According to the haggadic midrash, Rabban Simon b. Gamaliel says (in the name of R. Simon, the High-priest’s substitute or Prefect), “The thickness of the veil [of the Temple] was a hand-breadth. It was woven of seventy-two cords, each cord consisting of twenty-four strands. Its length was forty cubits, by twenty in width. It was made by eighty-two myriads of damsels, and two such veils were made every year. It took three hundred priests to immerse and cleanse it [if it becomes unclean]".

Another passage from R. Simon suggests, "The veil was one handbreadth thick and was woven on a loom having seventy-two rods, and over each rod were twenty-four threads. Its length was forty cubits and its breadth twenty cubits; it was made by eighty-two young girls, and they used to make two in every year; and three hundred priests immersed it".

These descriptions are recorded as being possible exaggerations but we have little other than this to go on.

I have read that another source said the veil was made of seventy two panels which were joined together but I am unable to find an authentic source for that piece of info.

Josephus also speaks on several occasions about the veil in the Temple but he does not give any specific measurements but does suggest the scale of the work in an artistic sense. In Wars of the Jews 5.5.4 he states "... before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful. Nor was this mixture of colors without its mystical interpretation, but was a kind of image of the universe; for by the scarlet there seemed to be enigmatically signified fire, by the fine flax the earth, by the blue the air, and by the purple the sea; two of them having their colors the foundation of this resemblance; but the fine flax and the purple have their own origin for that foundation, the earth producing the one, and the sea the other. This curtain had also embroidered upon it all that was mystical in the heavens, excepting that of the [twelve] signs, representing living creatures".

If the Temple veil was to have been washed, it would make sense that it should not be replaced at the time of year when the High Priest entered the Holiest of Holies (Yom Kippur, which is mid-September), as the extra weight of a wet veil would mean that significant manpower was required to draw back the curtain to allow him to pass. The veil would most likely have been washed after the high priest had finished his functions there, giving a few months for it to dry. This means that the veil may still have been wet and therefore at its heaviest during the Crucifixion (in April).

Since several of the Gospels mentions an earthquake or earthquakes at the time when Jesus expired (an also later when the stone was rolled away), perhaps shaking of the heavy wet Temple Veil caused it to tear?

As far as records of earthquakes in 1st Century Judea, Tacitus and Josephus record details of several and we know that a quake in 61 AD leveled Colosse, Laodicea and Hierapolis and that only Laodicea was rebuilt.

Josephus said that earthquakes "a common calamity". He also said (Wars 4.4.5) of one earthquake, specifically affecting Jerusalem, just before the Roman siege began, "A heavy storm burst on them during the night violent winds arose, accompanied with the most excessive rains, with constant lightnings, most tremendous thunderings, and with dreadful roarings of earthquakes. It seemed as if the system of the world had been confounded for the destruction of mankind and one might well conjecture that these were signs of no common events".

So, it is highly plausible that such events as outlined in the Gospels may have occurred exactly as documented in the New Testament and not have been recorded elsewhere.

It is definite that no-one in the first Century argued against the Temple Veil being torn or the dead being disinterred by an earthquake (or two). If there had been any doubt, I'm sure that someone would have documented such discrepancies against obviously verifiable occurrences.

Of course, this is where naysayers such as Krazysh0t loose some ground. People who were witnesses to the events, do not decry the accounts, regardless of their motivations for, or against, the Christians who make the assertions.

originally posted by: AlienVessel
a reply to: whereislogic

Why would it need to mention it?

Cause anyone can make stuff up to promote their latest idea/philosophy, storyline, theosophy or religion, thinking about the Tibetan monks BlissSeeker spoke of, who he/she promoted with his/her comment and thus also their false religion which is part of Babylon the Great. Who attempt to beef up their philosophies and theosophies by adding Jesus to the mix, mentioning or claiming Jesus as their own as some marketing tool. Same thing Muhammad did with great succes when he gave birth to another part of Babylon the Great, Islam, and plagiarized half of his message from the bible and passing it off as his own so he could contradict it with the rest and confuse people whether they should be peaceful or 'slay the infidel' "wherever you find him" (paraphrasing and quoting Quran 2:191) and open that wide open for personal interpretation and preference with all the terrorism and other negative results that plague this world now as the endresult, following Satan's favorite technique of 'divide and conquer'. Even dividing muslims amongst themselves with the current 2 main streams of Sunni and Shia, and a gazillion substreams of mental poison just like the 20,000+ denominations within Christendom, none of which reflect (true) Christianity. Time to wake up, quoting Bob Marley: "tell the children the truth", not fantasies and lies designed and devised to promote different parts within Babylon the Great and/or "this system of things" or "the god of this system of things" (Satan). Oh, and don't take your information about theological or religious matters from the BBC or any other MSM outlet; such as the doumentary that seems to be shown a lot on the National Geographic channel here with Morgan Freeman, promoting almost each and every mainstream false religion within Babylon the Great and promoting almost each and every lie told by these false religions as spiritual knowledge or insight, enlightenment, spirituality, 'special, impressive or admirable', and conditioning people with the notion that they're being openminded if they're willing to fall for them or attribute any value to them regarding the earlier mentioned words such as spirituality, etc. There's nothing insightful, enlightening, spiritual, openminded or admirable about lies and falsehoods, especially when they're about Jesus or his God. Jesus was way too busy for a trip to the Himalayas, he never went that far. I think Egypt was the furthest away from Israel he has ever been when he walked this earth (but I'd have to check the details in the primary source and cause for anyone having talked about Jesus since the Gospels were written shortly after his death and resurrection, the bible, to be sure, I know he and his parents had to flee to Egypt when Herod wanted Jesus dead and ordered the slaughter of all the boys two years of age and under in Bethlehem and its districts. Sidethought: where were all the Buddhist monks talking about Jesus before they were marketing themselves to what's called 'the West', especially those with lots of money and a spiritual gap or need to fill because of their disappointment with Christendom and/or agnosticism and atheism? They didn't have much to say about Jesus when their target-market didn't want to hear anything about Jesus and still don't have much truthful things to say about him when targetting another market than 'the West' or anyone remotely impressed with the character Jesus, not that they're teaching much truthful things about Jesus when they are targetting those markets either):

Religion is a Snare and a Racket
Current events-The End of False Religion is imminent!

a reply to: whereislogic
For people who have no respect or regard for God's Word, the bible, as a whole (in its entirety, not just the parts they prefer to use or twist to promote their own theosophies or religious movements, and not books they'd like to claim should be, or pretend are, part of the bible as is done in the OP and throughout this thread), they sure like to borrow a lot and ride its waves. And the bible and those described in it definitely made some waves worthy of serious sincere investigation without the spectacles of one's own (preferred) culture and/or (preferred) religion (religious views or view of spiritual matters, worldview, preferred way of thinking, philosophies/ideas) on or the spectacles of the unnamed authors of works known as The Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas (the one the OP pretends is part of the bible because of his/her title and the way he/she talks about it), the Martyrdom of Polycarp, etc. Sincere and succesful truthseekers stick to the bible from Genesis to Revelation, cause they know or have already figured out...

Ecclesiastes 12:12

As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.

Anyone who doesn't try out that only path to the truths that matter the most (about God and spiritual matters; true enlightenment and spiritual insight), will never be succesful in their truthseeking efforts. They are doomed to failure regardless if they're only in it for the attention, pride (feeling enlightened and special, as if one has spiritual insight that others don't, and as if one is more openminded when in reality they're not openminded to the truths from God's Word I just mentioned including that warning from Ecclesiastes), or for the money (the latter being mostly the case with those that are teachers, gurus, monks, preachers, imams, rabbis, new age figures on TV such as psychic mediums, psychics, spirit mediums, etc.; all part of Babylon the Great).

Which Religion Should You Choose?

‘DIFFERENT religions are simply different roads leading to the same goal. After all, there is only one God, is there not?’ That sentiment is shared by many who feel that although religious affiliation is important, it does not really matter which religion one chooses to follow.

At first glance, this argument may seem plausible, since it is true that there is only one God, the Almighty. (Isaiah 44:6; John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6) However, we cannot overlook the obvious differences—even contradictions—among the many religious groups who claim to serve the true God. They differ greatly in their practices, their beliefs, their teachings, and their requirements. The differences are so great that those belonging to one religion or group find it difficult to understand or accept what the others teach or believe.

On the other hand, Jesus said: “God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) Does worshiping God with truth allow for a range of contradictory ideas about who God is, what his purposes are, and how he wants to be worshiped? Is it logical to believe that it is immaterial to Almighty God how we worship him?

True Christians Then and Now

Christians of the first century at times had different opinions about things. For example, speaking of those in Corinth, the apostle Paul said: “Disclosure was made to me about you, my brothers, by those of the house of Chloe, that dissensions exist among you. What I mean is this, that each one of you says: ‘I belong to Paul,’ ‘But I to Apollos,’ ‘But I to Cephas,’ ‘But I to Christ.’”—1 Corinthians 1:11, 12.

Did Paul view these differences as of little significance? Was each individual simply following his own path to salvation? Far from it! Paul admonished: “I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”—1 Corinthians 1:10.

Of course, unity of belief cannot be achieved by coercion. It is achieved only when individuals carefully investigate matters and arrive at and accept the same conclusions. Thus, a personal study of God’s Word and an honest desire to apply what is learned are essential steps to enjoy the kind of unity that Paul spoke of. Can such unity be found? As we have seen, God has long dealt with his people as a group. Is it possible to identify that group today?

The Benefits of Right Association

The psalmist David once asked: “O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent? Who will reside in your holy mountain?” That surely is a thought-provoking question. David provided the answer: “He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness and speaking the truth in his heart.” (Psalm 15:1, 2) An accurate understanding of the Bible will enable one to identify the religion that meets those divine requirements. Then, by associating with that group, one will enjoy upbuilding fellowship with people who worship God in unity and “with spirit and truth.”
...

a reply to: chr0naut

Removing the resurrection would invalidate Christ's mission and purpose, which was to save us from the consequence of our sin. Invalidating that, then invalidates the Old Testament Torah and Prophets which spoke of just such a Messiah for just such a purpose. If they are not valid,then the God of Abraham is either a liar or a lie. If that is invalidated then the faith and writings of Muhammad, which he claims represent the God of Abraham, are invalid.

Well explained and must thank you for the information that I had never heard anyone explain before. You are one of several most respected here on ATS. You are exceptional in my estimation and enjoy your posts. Thanks again chrOnaut.