Low income people should not have insurance. They should be treated for free.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: ElGoobero

actually money is meaningless, everything is free until you decide it has monetary value. This is how society is contained and how humanity is restricted. We are so greedy and self absorbed that we need money to govern us.

As you can see in just this thread many people like the boundaries, in fact they need them.

Money is a great divider it allows people to view each other in terms of monetary value instead of actual value.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
a reply to: carewemust

If they live in an 800 grand house, but if they are laid off, then they are in a dire situation, so they should be treated for free.

On the contrary, if you live in an 800 grand house and cannot monetarily weather one of life's storms until you can rectify the situation, then you do not belong in an 800 grand house.

a reply to: allsee4eye

It's all the same. I went through almost half a million dollars on medical bills and now I'm poor and on Medicaid. Either I get healthcare through Medicaid or I'll go to the emergency room and get treatment. Medicaid is much cheaper and keeps people healthier. It doesn't matter what bills I get, there's no money to pay them now anyways.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people. We should stop govt. subsidizing of having children. People should only have kids if they can financially support them themselves.

a reply to: allsee4eye

There is already a law that you cannot be turned away for critical care.

Why should I have to support others?
No no no!
You wanna pay, be my friend.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: seentoomuch

Sadly most, I am sorry to say from personal experience, are incompetent and not worth their huge salaries-what did they learn in med school-besides a big ego?

Why do they have huge insurance payments? Because they are incompetent. Most went to med school to get rich. Sounds sour grapes, but, think about it-really.

Our medicine in the US stinks because of the above and the fact that insurance companies and the government control them.

Of course we should pay for the poor. This is the US-free and equal, right? Bah!

Doctors can't as in "not allowed" to properly treat patients in the US. Many of the obesity problems we have in the US are caused by nutritional problems. Not overeating but LACK of nutrients.

I have had to self diagnose and tease out all of my own health issues and i never went to med school but i have managed to turn my health around without the white coats and prescriptions by learning and studying nutrition on my own.

I spent 17yrs going to the white coats who even with their lab tests and fancy equipment couldn't figure out my problem.

Turns out i have/had a ton of nutritional deficiencies and as i address each one, my health improves. 17Yrs of nothing but weight gain and i finally cracked the mystery after every doctor i saw starting when i was just 50lbs overweight, told me that i was somehow at fault for my problem when i didn't know what was causing it. They never tried to figure it out. Only recently have i started seeing the numbers finally go down for the first time in 17yrs despite my attempting every diet plan out there.


Doctors trust the industry, their education, the system but it's all wrong. Doctors are no longer serving others even though a good number go into the field to help and to heal. That's not the system anymore. The system is profit based. Kill the patients for profit (system not doctor) and deal with truth only after every penny has been squeezed out of the patients.

Watch the commercials for prescriptions and if you wait until the patent expires you'll see lawyer commercials advertising their services for those injured by the meds no longer covered by the patents. Not all but an alarming number.

Doctors are as much a victim of this corrupt system as the patients they fail to help.

Not every patient is beyond the doctor's assistance or knowledge but many are and they pay the price by being made to feel crazy and marginalized by both the doctor who should be treating them and the system that should be protecting them.

The entire medical establishment needs to be reformed and throwing money at it won't solve the problem.

Alternative medicine and current medicine aka allopathic medicine should be bedfellows not separate entities. Combine the two forms and more healing will happen. Get away from big pharma though don't destroy it altogether. Pharmaceuticals and natural remedies both have their place but this isn't currently recognized.

Doctors who know the system is corrupt dare not rock the boat or stick their neck out lest they get thrown off the medical bandwagon with their loans hung around their necks like a cement block. Whatever the flaws, its not worth one's ruined career to try to fix.

Healthcare reform is just the tip of a very large iceberg and the entire system needs fixing. In order to fix issues this large, the entire thing would need to be destroyed and something new built in its place.

originally posted by: BeenieWeenie
The biggest problem is that there are too many people. We should stop govt. subsidizing of having children. People should only have kids if they can financially support them themselves.

Agreed!!! kids are expensive.

Don't start whining about the population being too large... that's not the issue. Some people horde all the resources like 2 yr olds in a sandbox with a pail, a few toys, and a spade. Most 2 yr olds don't share very well and many adults aren't much better.

If the 2 yr old adults learned to share with everyone, then we'd have a completely different system and sense of fairness. Not talking about equality here just not hoarding. Life shouldn't be a game of keep away.

It's always been this way and i very much doubt it will change.

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Absolutely, 100% agree. Medicine should be a system composing of patient education in addition to medicine. The system is archaic and broken-add in the controlling big pharma and government and we have people dying.

Should we pay for the poor? Of course. Everyone deserves to live their life to the fullest and it is possible.

First, destroy the insurance companies-control big pharma-and have citizens form a consortium of all medical personnel including all forms of medical advice and methods and work together for the betterment of all people.

Yeah-utopia. The Bilderburgs arn't going to let that happen.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

Absolutely, 100% agree. Medicine should be a system composing of patient education in addition to medicine. The system is archaic and broken-add in the controlling big pharma and government and we have people dying.

Should we pay for the poor? Of course. Everyone deserves to live their life to the fullest and it is possible.

First, destroy the insurance companies-control big pharma-and have citizens form a consortium of all medical personnel including all forms of medical advice and methods and work together for the betterment of all people.

Yeah-utopia. The Bilderburgs arn't going to let that happen.

Not quite true... in a sense this IS happening.

There's tons of forums where patients help each other out and medical personnel offer advice though all with the disclaimer of supporting and guiding the patients without intending to replace the doctor/patient relationship.

Labs are available without doctor prescriptions and many medications are available in natural forms without prescriptions.

The self help doctor is on the way!

This might be the key to destroying the current medical system so that something better can be built in its place.

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I always hated working 2nd shift at the hospital because people go to the ER on 2nd shift like it was last call for alcohol at the local bar. It is amazing how many people are so sick that it requires an ER visit AFTER they spent the day at work. Noooo, they couldn't possibly call in sick to work and go to the Urgent Care. They just go to work and then come to the ER after work because it's convenient. People lack all common sense when it comes to medical care. You have a cold? Go home and drink fluids and rest. The doctor can do ABSOLUTLEY FREAKING NOTHING for you except tell you to go home, drink fluids and rest. Something you should have enough common sense to know for yourself. ERs are overcrowded because people try to use them as their primary care physician.

This is TRUE! why? Because many of us can't afford primary care or health ins and ERs are required to treat you.

I've had to use the ER in this manner several times but its not because i wanted to but because i felt i had no choice.

Nebraska does two things different from any other state that i know of.

1. They offer FREE clinics with medical staff volunteers for those who want to use it. These are after hours clinics similar to urgent care. Generally from 4-7pm they accept walk ins and i can't remember if it's once a week, once a month, or twice a month but this helps quite a bit for those concerned about being unable to call into work.

2. They offer something called ask a nurse which is basically triage over the phone. Again handled by nurses through the ER and the nurse tells you whether or not a visit to the ER is necessary. This saves those who call an unnecessary trip and expense.

Yes, you probably pay more than poor people for the roads you drive on but in the long run, it's cheaper and more efficient than multiple private roads.

Society needs some costs to be shared on a tax basis. The military is one, police, fire, public schools.

Like public schools business benefits for a workforce that can read and write. They also benefit from a workforce (and buyers) who aren't dying and sickly.

The two tier medical system like they have in the UK would be cheaper for most employers than what most US businesses pay now.

There's no such thing as free. Doctors & their staff get paid to treat people. Pharmaceuticals cost money & resources to produce. Medicare is a form of health insurance.

I am for a national wage. If all social programs were eliminated, each citizen over 18 years old, who makes less than $50k per year & has a net value of less than $300k could each receive @ $30k per year national wage. They could then spend that money on basic needs like healthcare, housing & food in the free market.

originally posted by: JBIZZ
There's no such thing as free. Doctors & their staff get paid to treat people. Pharmaceuticals cost money & resources to produce. Medicare is a form of health insurance.

I am for a national wage. If all social programs were eliminated, each citizen over 18 years old, who makes less than $50k per year & has a net value of less than $300k could each receive @ $30k per year national wage. They could then spend that money on basic needs like healthcare, housing & food in the free market.

But where would that money come from? The state?

Forget it! Most govs can't even organize a trip to the bathroom... they created obamacare which even doctors hate let alone patients...

The bigger the government the less freedom for the people. Check out North Korea... i'm sure they love their freedom over there.

Big government is for small minds who can't think for themselves and need a "daddy government" to take care of them.

I remember uncle sam... i don't want our favorite uncle to be a harsh daddy.

originally posted by: Daughter2

Yes, you probably pay more than poor people for the roads you drive on but in the long run, it's cheaper and more efficient than multiple private roads.

Society needs some costs to be shared on a tax basis. The military is one, police, fire, public schools.

Like public schools business benefits for a workforce that can read and write. They also benefit from a workforce (and buyers) who aren't dying and sickly.

The two tier medical system like they have in the UK would be cheaper for most employers than what most US businesses pay now.

How does the medical system work in the UK and what would it take to implement such a thing in the US?

Personally i preferred healthcare pre-obamacare. I couldn't afford ins but no one was forcing it down my throat.

Insurance is like religion... everyone should choose what's right and not be forced to choke on someone else's dogma.

originally posted by: allsee4eye

That's why I suggested doctors be paid like professors are. A fixed government salary rather than paid on a per treatment basis.

I have seen you say this a number of times but I don't think doctors are the reason for high health cost. The average is around 200k.

originally posted by: Kalixi
Got to look at why the US health system charges $1,000 for an IV drip bag when other first world countries only pay $10 etc... why so high and where does the money go to?

Only once these exorbitant fees are wrangled can we think about healthcare becoming affordable for low-socioeconomic people

We are being ripped apart by piss poor health care at more than 2X the next industrialized nation's cost.

The reason it is so expensive is because it can be. Who's going to stop'em? If you want it pay for (10X cost in other countries) it you don't go die, and that is literally our system.
The most expensive and terrible in health out comes (#37 behind Columbia).

a reply to: allsee4eye

This is all fine and dandy but who will pay these doctors for such services? How about doctors not price gouge for visits? Or how about making insurance affordable based on what you make!

I don't have insurance right now and it sucks. I can't get meds or any treatment and it sucks. I had insurance with my last job and I couldn't even afford it! I had insurance yay but doctor's visits and meds were still too much and I made $15/hr! I live in a dumpy dumplex because it's all I can afford and I have a 20 year old car, no credit cards and i don't have anything fancy or extra. I live within my means and I barely do that! If I needed to see my doctor it's $200 for a visit WITHOUT insurance UPFRONT! That is ROBBERY. What so they can write a script and really not do a damn thing for me? My general doctor is a joke. When I went to him for my bipolar he had he NERVE to ask what I could do to be happier. Yea I paid a fee to have a DOCTOR tell me that I should get outside more, clearly he hasn't a clue about mental health and then I had to listen to him talk about his Vietnam drama and how he overcame depression. I thought I was there for myself not to listen to his own damn sob story which I didn't care about. Oh and then when it came time to give me meds he used freaking WIKIPEDIA to look up meds! It's a good thing I KNOW more about the meds than he does because he was trying to give me something in a does that wasn't even for bi polar and I caught it. He wasn't even paying attention. I basically did my own appointment and paid $100 for nothing! It was a complete and utter joke. Doctors today DO NOT CARE!

I will say I had one doctor about 3 years ago who DID care and she is no longer practicing BECAUSE Of how the health care industry has turned out. She felt she couldn't truly do her job anymore and she was the only doctor I had who didn't shove pills down my throat and actually listened to me and understood mental health. My god she was a godsend in my life at the time. I for once in all my life felt like someone FINALLY understood me and did all she could to help me and boy did she ever. Now though she is working in HR and not practicing and it's hard because I have bounced from doctor to doctor because they don't care! All they want to do is write scripts and send you on your way. That is how they get paid!

Why should I pay for your roads? Why should I pay for soldiers weapons ? Why should I pay for corporate bail outs? Why should I pay for police to keep you safe ? Why should I pay for fire services ? Why should I pay for schools? Why should I pay for politicians overpriced salary?
If you pay taxes and are part of a civilized society that makes you pay for all that through taxation then it seems utterly ridiculous to leave out health care unless of course you wanted to put profit before lives!
Imagine if you could only get school or fire services if you could afford them ?
I really think the people who say " I'm not paying for year health care" are stuck on stupid mode.

originally posted by: Slickinfinity
Why should I pay for your roads? Why should I pay for soldiers weapons ? Why should I pay for corporate bail outs? Why should I pay for police to keep you safe ? Why should I pay for fire services ? Why should I pay for schools? Why should I pay for politicians overpriced salary?
If you pay taxes and are part of a civilized society that makes you pay for all that through taxation then it seems utterly ridiculous to leave out health care unless of course you wanted to put profit before lives!
Imagine if you could only get school or fire services if you could afford them ?
I really think the people who say " I'm not paying for year health care" are stuck on stupid mode.

This is a good point...

Returning to the idea of a fixed salary... perhaps that is where medical care needs to go.

Treat all public servants the same: free education (as in grants for those who qualify and work contracts in lieu of grants for those who don't) for any public servant sectors like medical, rescue, police, education, government.

A comfortable salary which changes with the economy.

Forget insurance altogether... they're just the middleman and the less middlemen there are, the better.


Most of my family go to other countries for medical and dental because it's cheaper than here at home AND the care is the same or better.

Why pay out the a$$ for horrible care when it's all a racket?

ETA: work contract means that if they're hired by a company that company will pay for their education after x number of years. The public servant would be responsible for whatever educational expenses they incur but they would be compensated after a specific time frame.

This would probably be some type of gov contribution or debt forgiveness type program or a company benefit like health insurance is now.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
And who's going to pay for this?

Nobody! It's FREE! Poor people should just be able to walk into a doctor, or clinic, or hospital and get treated for whatever without any paperwork, like they were never there. No billable hours, drugs disappear due to "breakage", nurses and doctors just sneak them in between paying/covered patients....no one is the wiser!

TADA! FREE HEALTH CARE!