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Did the holocaust contribute to Hitlers defeat.

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posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Seeing as hitler originally wanted to deport the jews to Ukraine or Madagascar if he was smart he should of instead conscripted every jew he could find, arm them and send them to to the Afrika corps telling them if they can push the British out of Israel then they can have Israel.

Win/win. Hitler keeps his promise of getting rid of the jews and gets millions of men to use as cannon fodder against the British and the Jews get there homeland back.

Far better use of resources than a costly genocide.


The problem with that idea, and it was tried, Israeli Militia groups were actually permitted to set up training camps in Germany under Heydrich orders to prepare German Jewish recruits for the Israeli "defense" corps, was the British Naval blockade that refused to allow them through. That plan had to be abandoned just as the Madagascar one did simply because of the efficiency of British blockade.

Found this...from a thread long ago, when I went into more detail about this (old, abandoned username).


In 1937 Heydrich entered into negotiations with members of the Haganah Defense Organisation via Fiefel Polkes. Haganah were effectively acting as security against Arab attacks on Jewish Settlers which were precipitated by illegal land purchases and the failure of the settlers to understand the system whereby you could purchase land but not own the Olive groves planted on the land. Naturally, by denying access to crops and therefore livelihood tensions were inevitable.

Heydrich sent his “Jewish Expert” Adolf Eichmann to meet with Polkes in Palestine to discuss ways in which the illegal immigration of Jews could be increased.

The results was that Pino Ginzburg and Moshe Auerbach (who would both later become members of the newly formed Mossad) went to Berlin. There in conjunction with Heydrich’s SD and the Gestapo, Haganah set up a training camp and ‘recruited’, forceably and voluntarily young men to join in the defence of Jewish settlements in Palestine. On average 400 men were rounded up, trained and then smuggled into Palestine on a WEEKLY basis.

By late 1939, Heydrich had developed a route in conjuction with his former mentor, Admiral Canaris, Head of the Abwehr (German SIS) to take an even greater number of ‘emigrants’ directly via Hamburg and Emden under German Naval protection. This plan was cut short however with the invasion of Poland and the declaration of war from Britain. Heydrich had more pressing problems and the training camp, and emigrations petered out. 70,000 German, Czechoslovakian and Austrian Jews though had made it safely to Palestine, many of those young males, trained by the Haganah aided by Reinhard Heydrich.


www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Then there are the "sabotage factories". Entire piles of weapons, equiptment, munitions and such all built by slave labor to fail on the front line.

Even if 1 in 1000 bullets failed, thats one dead German out of the war.

One shell that was a dud, or actually a bomb meant to destroy its cannon. On and on it goes until its not worth the trouble.


edit on 6 24 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Maybe just don't use the Jews as your scape goats and build your empire on the benefits of your economic and social plans...

Lol. If we are hoping for the best case lol..

Or do you think he never makes it to power with out them as a scape goat.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 05:35 PM
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Hitlers inability to listen to his generals, and Russian winter pretty much sealed their fate. Also, it's one thing to seize lands..it's another to hold on to them.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

If you are referring to the total dead of the war then yes far more christian's of all denomination's were killed off in the war, in the death camp's however the largest single group murdered as a part of the NAZI final solution AKA the extermination of the Jews were as said the Jews, other group's murdered in the concentration camps included the Gypsy's another racial minority that Hitler and his crony's were keen to see wiped out, hundreds of thousand's (at least) of Poles, Russian's and both political and religious enemy's (including nuns and priests though the Nazi's were not at war with the Vatican, not officially yet but they had there own plan's for disposing of the Jewish figure by the name of Jesus Christ and were even re-writing the bible with Hitler as a Messianic figure www.dailymail.co.uk... creation.com... ).

So Yes in the war more non Jews died and quite a lot of those people did suffer every bit as much as the Jews because though it was mainly Jews whom sent to the concentration/extermination camp's there were also hundreds of thousand's and perhaps even a million or more non Jews whom were also sent to the extermination camp's BUT the Jews were the intended purpose of those murder factory's and it was for them that the Nazi's intended the extermination camp's to be used.

However after the war they also had plans to use them for the Slavic people's - those they did not regard as Aryan (they stole the word and meant Germanic which is actually NOT the same thing and the German's themselves are a mongrol people of mixed heritage including Hunnic tribes from Atilla's time whom MAY have originated in western China/Mongolia) enough to be used as Slave labor or Breeding stock (see Lebensborn - a program ran by the Nazi in which suitably beautiful blond or fair haired young woman were often kidnapped from occupied countrys and used as sex slave's for the Third reich who intended to get them pregnant by the cream of there SS and to use this offspring of eugenically bred children to create a NEW master race to replace the polluted and inferior German population - lovely when Idealists with evil heart have there way eh, had they won the German people themselves would have been for the chop in due course www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org... ).



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

I think he does. He was saying everything the people of Germany wanted to hear. Germany was in economic freefall, you had to stack a pretty hefty number of Deutsche-marks on the counter to get a loaf of bread.

He promised to fix it, to fix everything. They believed him. Oops.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

So is it really fair to have them be the casualies's mascot???



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

If you want the real story of what had happened in Nazi German Death Camp Aushwitz Birkenau you should start from reading about Colonel Witold Pilecki, polish bravest hero. His raports from 1940 were reffused by Britain, French and US stateheads.
If you want to know who killed all these people, you have the answer.



Konstanty Piekarski, who survived both Auschwitz and Buchenwald, wrote this about Pilecki: Perhaps the noblest example of heroism I observed occurred in September of 1940, when a captain in the Polish Intelligence, Witold Pilecki, allowed himself to be captured by the Gestapo and sent to Auschwitz in order to establish there a resistance unit among Polish army officers. It was an almost impossible task considering the extraordinary cruelty of the German kapos and the vigilant security of the Gestapo. But Pilecki was no ordinary man. His courage and determination gave myself and others the will to overcome tremendous obstacles - the constant threat of torture, execution or starvation - despite our limited means. But that was only the beginning of Pilecki's bravery.

edit on Sat, 24 Jun 2017 19:29:50 -0500America/Chicago502924America/Chicago6302017f by residentofearth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: residentofearth

Oh no I'm not doubting at all the monserous acts committed..

But at the same time they were having peaseandts lay down in ditches 2 rows wide .. then would machine gun down the line, before ordering another 2 rows to lay down..

There was no shortage of human suffering..

Look at the insanely broad sweeping rapes by and against the Germans...

Atrocities were common place during that and other wars.



posted on Jun, 24 2017 @ 09:14 PM
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a reply to: Anaana

the " madagascar option " was utter twaddle - even if you just ignore the RN

you have xxxxxxxxxxxxxx people to " transport " and yyyyyyyyy ships , each ship can carry zzzzz people in AAAA days [ round trip ] how many years will the madagascar plan take ?


(post by BigBangWasAnEcho removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 03:49 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Even IBM helped to schedule people. You dont print numbers, taking photos and whole medical history for a purpose to kill the person. They were used to more evil things like medical experiments. Off course many died without number.

West knew about german nazi death camps. Its sure, Pilecki was a first eyed witness. West has killed all these people.



posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Anaana

the " madagascar option " was utter twaddle - even if you just ignore the RN

you have xxxxxxxxxxxxxx people to " transport " and yyyyyyyyy ships , each ship can carry zzzzz people in AAAA days [ round trip ] how many years will the madagascar plan take ?


Oh I know, but that is not to say that it wasn't seriously and genuinely considered as an option. Eichmann did all the legwork, was all gung ho for it, got his jabs and everything, then it was pulled.

The whole Nazi state was a waste of energy and resources, that is what few seem to appreciate. Sure they had the sharp tailoring and looked the part but the vast majority of them were running around like headless chickens trying to please a charismatic leader with the temper of a two year old. Hitler liked to assign two people to that same task, wanted that competition for his approval, and because he never wanted an explanation of how it was done, nefarious methodology, corruption and foisting problems onto others, became the norm. Once the US investors were unable to supply money and resources, because their government had gone with the other side, the Nazis days were numbered simply because they could no longer support the lifestyle they had become accustomed to, the British Naval blockade was a small part of that, but British foreign policy that wanted an Anglophile Palestine, did help to ensure the fate of the Reich Jews.



posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 04:00 AM
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I think it could have in the following ways?

1. It contributed to the Americans entering the War in Europe (although I have no evidence I cannot help it might).
2. It strengthened the Russians Resolve to fight to the death.
3. It strengthened the various resistance movements.

Of course this is on the premise it was known about, did anyone really know what the Germans were doing. When the Allies came across these camps none of them knew what they were seeing.

On the other hand, uniting against the common enemy (the evil Jew) could have helped Hitler:

1. People all joined in to persecute them showing they were proud Germans or agreed with the Nazi invaders so they were left alone.
2. Fear makes people put up with a lot.



posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: LABTECH767

So is it really fair to have them be the casualies's mascot???


That depends upon whether you want the crime's of the war to be remembered and the lesson that they should never happen again to be followed or if you would rather forget about them, a poster child as you call them is actually necessary and a nation that has a vested interest in stopping this ever again is also a necessity BUT recently I felt sick to the pit of my stomach when I watched some young Jewish soldiers walking around a wounded and dying 15 year old Palestinian girl (not in a hijab) saying Die, Die, Hurry up and Die to her as she lay there moaning in pain, no ambulance and a claim that she tried to knife one of the soldiers slightly injuring him, did she or did she attract his attention because she was pretty.

When I see them acting like Nazi's as on that occasion on an admittedly Biased RT posting of that footage I have to ask myself and them do you kill the dragon just to become the dragon, is losing your soul really worth it.

I am as I say distantly part Jewish so it enraged me to see them doing that and I Would have strangled them had I been there or at least tried too because to my mind though they were little more than boy's that was a child lying there with her life bleeding out of her after she was shot in the stomach.

But that is a war with two side's, the Jews need there homeland but have forgotten that many of the people they are taking it back from also have JEWISH ANCESTRY even if they do worship a false interpretation of God (and not all Palestinian's are Muslim, many are actually Christian but less these day's than used to be because they have been persecuted by the Muslim's they live beside and in other cases fled to the christian part's of Lebanon rather than Palestine AND there were also Jewish Palestinian's, a heavily and historically persecuted minority that had weathered massacres and persecution's over the ages but most of those now live in Israel and I believe non now LIVE among there former neighbors for obvious reason's.

But make no doubt the Jews need there homeland, the Palestinian's are not a single race and are not going to be wiped out but if the Jews do not have there own state they do face the possibility of that very thing happening to them some day, evil has happened before and it will happen again, but then again all your egg's in one basket also come's to mind as a potential great danger.

Still as a Christian I believe they have to be there as well and it is an inevitable part of God's plan.

But those soldiers responsible for that young girl need to be dealt with by there own superior's, if she did attack them unprovoked OK but according to her mother she left the house to go to school, was happy that morning and that was the last time she saw her alive, what little I saw on that Video on RT someone had taken with a mobile phone was like watching NAZI's around a Jew they had just shot and that was the only thing I could think, how like NAZI's they have become to act like that, she would be alive if they had simply given first aid, she would be alive if they had called an ambulance, she would be alive if she lived in a state with LAW and ORDER were she could have faced her accusers in a court and what really happened there before she was filmed holding her stomach in a fetal position lying on her side moaning in agony only God knows but my gut tell's me she was innocent and they were simply BAD and EVIL, there actions born of HATRED and INTOLERANCE, perhaps because she was not in a Hijab they mistook her for a Jewish Girl, easily done they are first cousin's.
My blood boiled and I almost always side with Israel no matter what the action was but like the time they drove a Tank over an American christian human right's activist this made me very angry with them and like I say I am conscious of my own relation to them - I care about them, I would even fight for them but this was too much for me.


Ah HA, I am going to leave this statement up but I have been shown to have believed a source RT which was biased and actually may have been wrong, my own interpretation was also wrong.

Here is a more accurate report that is worth reading.
www.dailysabah.com...

Not dead she was taken to hospital and in an area were she should not have been so it probably was her attacking them, sad but that is the world we live in.

I should also like to apologize for my above rant to my distant Israeli cousin's and to those young soldiers if this is the case.
Show's the power of the media and how a story can be twisted to make even your own relative's turn on you, I do hope she pulled through and am glad she did not injure anyone too seriously but she was still just a kid, old enough to know better and older than some suicide bombers but still a kid.

edit on 26-6-2017 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2017 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

I'm still reading , but I guess I'm such a mutt that I don't really hold on to any ancestral nostalgia...

Which is kinda a good thing when trying to be subjective.

And everyone needs a homeland.. if it needed to be in the middle of a ME that didn't want them there as a world power is debatable.

But peasants who could care less what aristocrat is running things and atrocities to those people happen on both sides.

Along with your rant I would say that accountability is the major issue in countless political issues...

If terrorists were all rotting in cells , rather having died thinking they were going to heaven, would people be so upset???

If the Jewish soldiers you mentioned were prosecuted to the fullest extent would you be so upset??

How many other issues does that apply to???

How many wars have started over just that, one group harms another group , then is protected from accountability and the situation snowballs??



posted on Jun, 30 2017 @ 12:23 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 30 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 30 2017 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

It was hitlers own stupidity and evil nature that was his downfall. Evil men fall, it happens. In this case it was a really good thing it happened fast.



posted on Jul, 18 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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Yes.
It contributed. A butterfly flapping it's wings in Australia could have contributed. Every penny counted.

Whether or not it was a major factor, or THE Factor, is another question. But that is not the question that was asked.
edit on 7/18/2017 by 3n19m470 because: (no reason given)







 
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