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OP/ED: Hugo Chavez Dismantles Democracy in Venezuela

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posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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1- Use a reliable non bais source please... FOX thinks anyone who opposes the US is anti-democratic and commnist.

2- When the US backed a coup to oust him a couple of years backm it was the people who brought him back to power.

Venezuela is a poor country and the majority of its people are poor... thus by helping the poor he his helping his people... isnt democracy about representing the people and not he rich minority...

I say go Hugo! Keep your head high and dont listen to the north Americans... they dont have the interests of your country at heart only the interests of the United states of Hipocrisy




posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 11:20 PM
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Sorry for posting this again, I feel it would of got ignored as the last post on the previous page, and it is an excellent peice of literature I suggest all read it...



The Invisible Laws of Capitalism
by Ernesto "Che" Guevara

The laws of capitalism, invisible and blind for most people, act upon the individual without his awareness. He sees only the broadness of a horizon that appears infinite. Capitalist propaganda presents it in just this way, and attempts to use the Rockefeller case (true or not) as a lesson in the prospects for success. The misery that must be accumulated for such an example to arise and the sum total of baseness contributing to the formation of a fortune of such magnitude do not appear in the picture, and the popular forces are not always able to make these concepts clear. (It would be fitting at this point to study how the works of the imperialist countries gradually lose their international class spirit under the influence of a certain complicity in the exploitation of the dependent countries and how this fact at the same time wears away the militant spirit of the masses within their own national context, but this topic is outside the framework of the present note).

In any case we can see the obstacle course which may apparently be overcome by an individual with the necessary qualities to arrive at the finish line. The reward is glimpsed in the distance and the road is solitary. Furthermore, it is a race of wolves: he who arrives does so only at the expense of the failure of others.

I shall now attempt to define the individual, the actor in this strange and moving drama that is the building of socialism, in his two-fold existence as a unique being and a member of the community.

I believe that the simplest approach is to recognise his un-made quality: he is an unfinished product. The flaws of the past are translated into the present in the individual consciousness and constant efforts must be made to eradicate them. The process is two-fold: on the one hand society acts upon the individual by means of direct and indirect education, while on the other hand, the individual undergoes a conscious phase of self-education.


Here are some snippits from a news story...




Look at the Chronicle/AP photo of the anti-Chavez marchers in Venezuela. Note their color. White.

And not just any white. A creamy rich white.

I interviewed them and recorded in this order: a banker in high heels and push-up bra; an oil industry executive (same outfit); and a plantation owner who rode to Caracas in a silver Jaguar.

And the color of the pro-Chavez marchers? Dark brown. Brown and round as cola nuts – just like their hero, their President Chavez. They wore an unvarying uniform of jeans and T-shirts.

[...]

Why am I explaining the basics of Venezuela to you? If you watched BBC TV, or Canadian Broadcasting, you'd know all this stuff. But if you read the New York Times, you'll only know that President Chavez is an "autocrat," a "ruinous demagogue," and a "would-be dictator," who resigned when he recognized his unpopularity.

Odd phrasings – "dictator" and "autocrat" – to describe Chavez, who was elected by a landslide majority (56 percent) of the voters. Unlike our President.

[...]

On April 12, 2002, Chavez resigned his presidency It said so, right there in the paper – every major newspaper in the USA, every single one. Apparently, to quote the New York Times, Chavez recognized that he was unpopular, his time was up: "With yesterday's resignation of President Hugo Chavez, Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator."

Problem was, the "resignation" story was a fabulous fib, a phantasmagoric fabrication. In fact, the President of Venezuela had been kidnapped at gunpoint and bundled off by helicopter from the presidential palace. He had not resigned; he never resigned; and one of his captors (who secretly supported Chavez) gave him a cell-phone from which he called and confirmed to friends and family that he remained alive – and still president.

[...]

The U.S. papers got it dead wrong – but how? Who was the source of this "resignation" lie? I asked a U.S. reporter why American news media had reported this nonsense as stone fact without checking. The reply was that it came from a reliable source: "We got it from the State Department."

[...]

For who is the autocrat? Today, there are hundreds of people held in detention without charges in George Bush's United States. In Venezuela, there are none.

This is not about Venezuela but about the Virtual Venezuela, created for you by America's news wardens. The escape routes are guarded.

[...]

Lesson: If you want to get accurate news in the United States, you might want to learn a language other than English.

Friday, January 3, 2003. The New York Times ran a long "News Analysis: Venezuela Outlook." Four experts were quoted. For balance, two of them don't like Chavez, while the other two despise him.

The Times reporter wrote that "the president says he will stay in power." "In power?" What a strange phrase for an elected official. Having myself spoken with Chavez, it did not sound like him. He indicated he would stay "in office" – quite a different inference than "in power." But then, the Times' phrasing isn't in quotes.

That's because Chavez never said it.

Link



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Some good reading there Ghostsoldier!

Sorry if my post made it obsolete and put it back a page...



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Yes good post Ghostsoldier...


We are seeing the Amerikan fascist agenda hard at work.
The U.S. works very hard to keep 3rd world countries from developing.

It's obvious the U.S. is going to put a bad spin on what is going on in Venezuela because they don't want us (the majority poor) to see the REAL effects of socialism. We might start getting ideas.
If only the Amerikan public could see that what they are fed is lies upon lies upon more lies.
All designed to keep you in the dark and to continue being raped whilst you pay them to do it.
All your hard work is for nothing.
You are working to pay for your government to enslave you.
You are working to pay for corporations to wage war to extend their markets.
You are paying with your sweat and your lives.

Democracy is a sham, it's not what we are told it is.
The U.S. is a dictatorship in Democratic clothing.
The only difference between the U.S. and other dictatorships is they give us a new dictator every 4 yrs (or so).
You really think we vote him in?
The Amerikan public is so naive.



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 02:14 AM
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You have voted ANOK for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


That was the most poetic and inspirational thing I've read in a long time...




RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
-- Take the Power Back!

So called facts are fraud
They want us to allege and pledge
And bow down to their God
Lost the culture, the culture lost
Spun our minds and through time
Ignorance has taken over
Yo, we gotta take the power back!
Bam! Here's the plan
Mother# Uncle Sam
Step back, I know who I am
Raise up your ear, I'll drop the style and clear
It's the beats and the lyrics they fear
The rage is relentless
We need a movement with a quickness
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back

Yeah, we gotta take the power back
Come on, come on!
We gotta take the power back



posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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Is Washington planning a bloodbath in Caracas?
Stuart Munckton

The Venezuelan government headed by President Hugo Chavez repeatedly accused the US government of planning a “new aggression” against Venezuela, including a plot to assassinate Chavez, despite pro-Chavez forces winning nine national elections in six years. Caracas claims to have information of an assassination plot to be carried out “within 100 days” against Chavez, although the government has refused to reveal its sources.

[...]

Rodriguiz went as far as to set out possible scenarios. He said that an air-strike aiming to kill Chavez was one possibility, pointing to the bombing raid then US President Ronald Reagan ordered in 1986 to kill Libyan President Muammer Qadhafi (Qadhafi survived the raid, but his daughter was killed). The Cuban news agency Prensa Latina reported on March 15 that in the interview Rodriguez had stated that he personally expected to participate in a CIA operation to kill Chavez.

[...]

The United States openly supported a military coup against the Chavez government in April 2002, which was reversed two days later by a popular uprising. Since then, however, the US Congress-funded National Endowment For Democracy has poured millions of dollars into the groups that supported the coup.

[...]

While the US is planning an attack on Venezuela, it is unclear whether it will be able to carry it out, and, if it does, whether it will be successful or not.

From Green Left Weekly, April 6, 2005.

Venezuela Solidarity
Hands Off Venezuela


Opinions, discussion, critizism?


In my opinion this is just another attempt by the US government to squash any kind of leftist movement, what Chavez has done to Venezuela should be seen as a Saint worthy act... Also, many leaders similar to Chavez ALL OVER Latin-America have been elected, its strange how the US brandishes the one with the Oil as a totalatarian...

I think it is also important to note that Venezuela is the worlds FOURTH biggest producer of Oil... Which may explain the war ships off Venezuelas coast keeping a close eye on things...

[edit on 21-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
................

CHAVEZ CANNOT BE A TOTALITARIAN DICTATOR – HE WAS VOTED IN UNANIMOUSLY BY SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA!!!




ELECTION RESULTSAround 6:20 p.m. on July 25, the CNE issued its first bulletin on the election results tabulated up to that time (more than 60 percent). The document indicated that Polo Patriótico candidates had gained the majority in nearly every region of the country, and that voter abstention had exceeded 50 percent.

One hour later, the Deputy Secretary General of the OAS and the Chief of Missionmet in the CNE pressroom to give their preliminary impressions of the mission. Ambassador Christopher Thomas indicated that a free and transparent process had been conducted and that the minor difficulties encountered had not affected the validity of the elections. Santiago Murray emphasized that the election day had gone in accordance with established procedures, despite a few minor problems observed in setting up the bureaus, the limited supervision of witnesses, and the low voter turnout.


Excerpted from.
64.233.187.104...:A1fMPuJnGhsJ:www.upd.oas.org/lab/Documents/permanent_council/cp_doc_3300_00_eng.pdf+CNE-supervised+elections+in+2 000&hl=en

Polo patriotico, is the opposition party....



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
How dumb must you be to not get that trough your head… All your information is either from FoxNews or the privately owned news stations in Venezuela (WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN SHUTDOWN!!!) … He allows those Right Wing bigamists to exist because they have TRUE freedom of speech… The Venezuelan privately owned media is full of propaganda against Chavez because it does not suit their Capitalistic desires. And yet, 70% of the people STILL WANT HIM THERE! This is a growing majority might I add, not a declining majority


Since when can people insult others in this forum?....I kind of find it strange no mods have said anything about your response....

Anyways....after watching some of your posts....including those about Che Guevara, I can see why you are so blind...

Che Guevara was a mass murderer. If you were Cuban you would know the true story about the actions of Che Guevara, but once again the actions of a murderer sob are swept under a rug and sweetened by commies and their sympathizers trying to make a martyr from a murderer...

Your idol was a freaking assassin....get that in that thick head of yours. He was castro's greatest thug and murderer.

The following is one of Che's famous quotes....


"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."
Che Guevara (message to the Tricontinental; 1967)


He used that hatred pretty good agaisnt many, many Cubans. He would take people from their homes and shoot them in front of their families, including the children...that's how he, along some others of castro's thugs tried to stop any opposition or dissention in the country....

Che Guevara's legacy, along with fidel's and every other so called "socialist revolutionary" (communist) is a legacy that has given the people of Cuba, among other communist countries, mass murders, a whole nation going hungry to feed "la revolucion," and the loss of life of an unnumerable amount of Cubans who have died eaten by sharks, died dehydrated, and drowned trying to leave the dictatorship that your beloved "revolution" has brought not only upon Cubans but billions of other people...




Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Workers of the world Unite!
Feed the poor, eat the rich!


ABAJO LA REVOLUCION!!!!!


The facts speak for themselves....
Your revolution has only caused more missery, death, and suffering upon nations, and it has never brought any respite or helped the people that you claim your ideals would help.....

If Chavez continues to lead his country in the same manner of his mentor and friend, fidel, it will become just another dictatorship....






[edit on 21-4-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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Where are you getting this from Muabbid?
Could you supply a linc to this so we can decide for ourselfs?


Some of the international press (2) has been quick to accuse Chávez of being a "radical-left authoritarian", of "drifting towards autocracy", and of "paving the way for a modern form of coup d’état". Yet despite the impassioned atmosphere in Venezuela, where the discussion and political debate going on all around reminds one of France in May 1968, there has so far been no serious violence, no victims, nor any kind of censorship of the political opposition or of the journalists and broadcasters who do not shrink from occasional vicious criticism of the new president.


mondediplo.com...



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Where are you getting this from Muabbid?
Could you supply a linc to this so we can decide for ourselfs?


I have already supplied links, if you go back a few pages you will find links there..... even in this page i gave links...

There are also other threads where others and I have supplied even more links.

And no deaths huh?... is that what they are saying now?....

Again, i provided links...go back some pages and you will see them.



[edit on 21-4-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 06:57 AM
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Well if the Polo opposition party had the majority of votes up to that time (and they say that the election was not over at that point), why are they not in office? Chavez passed them after that time? (and that's the 2000 election, not the last one).

Personally I think this whole nonsense has to do with race. Chavez is the first non-caucasian Venezuelian president.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by TheBandit795]



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795

Personally I think this whole nonsense has to do with race. Chavez is the first non-caucasian Venezuelian president.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by TheBandit795]


What in the world does race have to do with the actions of Chavez?....

The opposition of Chavez includes at least a couple million, many being non white, Venezuelan citizens that we know of.... (those who took to the streets to protest)



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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Believe me race has some to do with it.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
Believe me race has some to do with it.


.....believe me it doesn't.....

That's a lot of proof huh?



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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I've seen personally how those people act to people of a different race. That's enough for me.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
I've seen personally how those people act to people of a different race. That's enough for me.



Those people?...... Who are "Those people".....

Would you mind to specify and explain what you are talking about?

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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I am talking about the wealthy Venezuelians. I thought it was obvious that I meant that.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
I am talking about the wealthy Venezuelians. I thought it was obvious that I meant that.


oh... i see.... So the millions of Venezuelans (there have been many demonstrations against Chavez, some of the protests numbered the demonstrators around 200,000 up to almost 2 million in some demonstrations) that took to the streets to protest against Chavez were all millionares..... riiiiight......

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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No, of course they were not all millionaires. I didn't say that. But the majority of Venezuelians still support him. Or else he would've been recalled last year.



posted on May, 11 2005 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
oh... i see.... So the millions of Venezuelans (there have been many demonstrations against Chavez, some of the protests numbered the demonstrators around 200,000 up to almost 2 million in some demonstrations) that took to the streets to protest against Chavez were all millionares..... riiiiight......


I'd like to see where you got these numbers from... Chavez has gone from having 16% on Latin American wide opinion polls - To 70% of Latin Americans supporting (or atleast accepting) Chavez...

Since the beginning the demonstrations against Chavez have paled in comparrison to the demonstrations (celebrations) for Chavez... Muaddid I do not think you understand what is actually happening in Venezuela and the gains Chavez and the Venezuelan people have managed to do...

He has been democratically elected 6 Times... And every-time he had overwhelming public support - Amongst other things: the UN officially recognises that Chavez (with the help of Cuba) have managed to stamp out illiteracy in Venezuela (less than 2%) - This is WAY ahead of the US...

How can you condemn them?



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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While he may be democratically elected (I'll give you that), he's certainly not a (small d) democrat.

Look at what he's doing now, he's wanting the government to take over telecommunications, electrical, and other utility companies, causing stocks in those corporations to plunge; he wants to amend the Venezuelan constitution to get rid of term limits, so he can be president forever, and he wants their legislature to allow him to create his own laws.

Do all of you who supported him still do so?




CNN / Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- President Hugo Chavez says nothing can stop him from swiftly transforming Venezuela into a socialist state, and he faces few obstacles now that a crushing re-election win has given him free reign to pursue more radical changes.

His first big move -- to nationalize "strategic" power and telecommunications companies -- heralds a series of planned "revolutionary laws" that remain vaguely defined. But with oil profits booming and his popularity high, Chavez appears to be in step with a majority of Venezuelans even as spooked investors dumped shares in the affected companies.

"Everything the man is doing is good," said Orlando Vera, a 63-year-old window washer, on Tuesday, adding that his economic situation has improved under Chavez. As for nationalization, Vera said it makes sense for companies that serve the public interest.

Chavez, an admirer of Fidel Castro, says he is crafting a new sort of "21st Century Socialism." Critics say it is starting to look like old-fashioned totalitarianism by a leader obsessed with power.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



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