OP/ED: Hugo Chavez Dismantles Democracy in Venezuela

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posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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To both dgtempe and muaddib for having to cojones (sorry dg
) to stand up to this attempted disinformation campaign regarding castro (and his minion chavez). I can't believe the self-appointed arrogance of some these people who try and argue with people that were actually there.


Please keep standing your ground on these issues, and remember the old communist mantra about lies being told often enough will eventually be perceived as being the truth. That's why these pro-castro/chavez people have to be countered every time they show up.

Just my 2 cents ...

[edit on 1/18/2007 by centurion1211]




posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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Thank you Centuriun, but ya could have left out the then communist now Liberal bit.
I'm as far away from Communist as one can get. I have many good values (I dont call them "conservative") because those two words are not sinonymous. (sp)
Gotcha.



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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Yes, this is bad....why?....because Chavez is following the footsteps of Castro.... He just announced, heard it on tv, that he will set up neighborhood committees like the ones in Cuba...These committees, like the ones in Cuba, are set up to keep the regular people in check... and it is a way to find out who opposes the government of Chavez....

Perhaps nobody in this thread realizes that the people in Cuba are starving, because of castro...and Chavez, as he has stated many times, wants to follow castro's footsteps...

castro did the same thing when he started, he promised the same things Chavez is promising, etc.... in the end what Chavez's goal is, is to make Venezuela a communist country, and yes this is bad for the people and for the western countries, not only the US.

If the people of Venezuela actually knew the history of Cuba and what castro did and what he is doing I am pretty sure they would quickly change their minds, but alas, those not informed are easily duped.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Muaddib]


It's impossible for Chavez to follow the footsteps of Castro in the context you seem to be positing. Chavez is embowering the principle that Castro abides by: deject U.S influence which has become one of countless slaughter.

As always, Muaddib, your delusion is your undoing. Cubans are starving because of a number of things which include poor economic choices by Castro, but you'll have to provide the negative implications of his economic policies for us to take your argument with kind. So please, do throw some numbers and facts into the mix and while you're at, take a look at how many Americans starve and how poorly your own beloved president has handled the economy.

Americans are the ones in dire need of educational enrollment into reality 101. They fish for scraps under the seat of global supremacy.

Muaddib, were you ever taught of Operation Northwoods in school? Were you ever taught issues regarding the U.S tacit support for militias and supplying arms for some of the most strife third world nations? I doubt that.

Good job.

Luxifero



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
Muaddib, were you ever taught of Operation Northwoods in school? Were you ever taught issues regarding the U.S tacit support for militias and supplying arms for some of the most strife third world nations? I doubt that.

Good job.

Luxifero


Guess this guy hasn't been paying attention ...

Muaddib lived in cuba.

Maybe Muaddib or dgtempe can fill us in on whether a cuban school lesson I heard about years ago was actually true or not.

What I heard was that Castro wanted to get little kids to quit believing in God, so he had the teachers tell the little kids to close their eyes and pray to God for some candy. Of course, nothing happened. Then he had them close their eyes and pray to castro for candy. While the kids were praying, the teacher pulls out some hidden candy for the kids to see when they open their eyes.



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
I just wrote a huge amount here and lost the gosh darned thing.


Look, you greasers,
Muaddib is no more a NWO pusher than i am Marilyn Monroe.


Thank you DG for backing the truth.


I am just astounded how some people like souljah will beleive anything that is on the internet just because they want to believe it....or maybe he knows the truth but he needs to defend his "revolutionary friends"...



[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 11:57 PM
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I will say its rather striking that Chavez is looking to have the ability to issue laws be decree.

That is, literally, what a Dictator is, one who dictates the laws, rather than has them passed by the assembly. Interesting that its also for a 'limited term', which is what the old roman, legal, office of "Dictator" was, a short term position of absolute power.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Luxifero

It's impossible for Chavez to follow the footsteps of Castro in the context you seem to be positing. Chavez is embowering the principle that Castro abides by: deject U.S influence which has become one of countless slaughter.


Impossible?.... Chavez has been proclaiming he is a socialist for years...now finally he came out with the truth, he is a Communist.

Chavez "bought" the 45-47% of Venezuelans, who happen to be the poor, to back him up long enough for him to take control of every sector of Venezuela.

and BTW...it is Communism that has been the worse "influence" and worse economic/political system that has existed on Earth....

Because of Communism over 110 million people have been murdered...yet some people claim Chavez is a good man fighting for the people?.... He just finally came out of the closet and announced that he is Communist... No wonder he made statements like "he wanted to be in power for as long as castro has been" and "Cuba, and other countries which are ruled by dictators, are good examples, or role models for the Venezuelan people"....



Originally posted by Luxifero
As always, Muaddib, your delusion is your undoing. Cubans are starving because of a number of things which include poor economic choices by Castro, but you'll have to provide the negative implications of his economic policies for us to take your argument with kind.


Delusions?... I excerpted and provided links that support everything I said... and BTW, this thread is not really about Cuba...but there have been other threads in ATS where DG and I have talked about our experiences under the Communist regime, and have given links and pertinent information on the topic of Cuba. If you want to find it then do your own search. i am not going to derail this thread and write pages upon pages of information to satisfy your lazyness...


Originally posted by Luxifero
Muaddib, were you ever taught of Operation Northwoods in school? Were you ever taught issues regarding the U.S tacit support for militias and supplying arms for some of the most strife third world nations? I doubt that.


Again trying to derail the thread?...

Don't tell me, you are a supporter of Chavez... Operations Northwoods was a written draft which was never accepted and the person that came up with it was fired, and this was what 40 year ago?........

Nice try at derailing the thread, but this thread is about what Chavez is doing to Venezuela...

People in Venezuela have been shot in the head, and in the heart by police, military and Chavistas just for being oponents of Chavez... and Venezuelans who are oponents of Chavez have dissapeared... There have even been Venezuelans who had to ask for asylum in other countries because of their opinions...

Chavez has been threatening Venezuelans that try to ever again sign a referendum against him, and he himself has said that if 90% of signatures are gathered he will not quit...

In his inauguration he even mentioned that he will stay in power after 2014...i wonder how he "can see in the future"?..... unless he has it already planned and knows before hand he will be in power...

BTW... once again 45-47% of Venezuelans are poor, and 5 million of that percentage are extremely poor...

The situation in Venezuela is worse than anything that is happening in the U.S.

But again, some people try to put the blame on the U.S. and change every topic and thread into a U.S. bashing fest....


[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 01:52 AM
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Since the Leninist model is a proven failure, then that's a reason why the US should dictate how the Venuezulans should function rather than letting them cave in on their own?

So I suppose the plan is for the US to invade and kill off a hundreds of thousands Venezuelas, before Chavez can. Blow up their infrastructure, turn the region into a toxic cesspool, depose Chavez and his minions, install a US puppet regime, replace their currency, sell off their oil contracts to Western companies, make them sign on to NAFTA, and jack all their consumer prices up 300%. Oh they will just love that, just like they do in Iraq.... meanwhile, the US economy collapses cause the world no longer supports its debts or war economy agenda and it becomes a banana republic miltary junta.

Maybe the US should just start nuking Russia and China too, since they're both embracing and supplying resource rich rogue nations with weapons.

Then you actually wonder why many folks think Bush and his groupies are a certified kooks that are proving to be the biggest danger to the free world, and then demand that comparing kooks to a kooks should be taboo.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Regenmacher]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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Since noone in here has said anything about "invading Venezuela" or "nuking Russia and China"... it is obvious who the "kooks" are....

We are just showing the truth of who Chavez is, and what he is trying to do....

Perhaps Regenmacher doesn't want to know the truth, but I am sure that others do want to know...

Chavez is not "fighting for the people"...nor is his agenda any good for "Latin America and beyond"...as he has said the goal of the Bolivarian revolution is all about...to spread Communism to Latin America, and beyond...



[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Chavez is not "fighting for the people"...nor is his agenda any good for "Latin America and beyond"...


Don't have a solution ehh? I suppose that's typical since no one has attempted to remove el Puerco, since the Bay of Pigs.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher

Don't have a solution ehh? I suppose that's typical since no one has attempted to remove el Puerco, since the Bay of Pigs.


What the hell?...

Wow, the "kooks" are really working at it when one of their idols is shown for what they truly are....



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Wow, the "kooks" are really working at it when one of their idols is shown for what they truly are....


I think you need to go back and read my posts, I already said Chavez was nuts several posts ago and now you pretend to suddenly develop short term memory problems . Kind of hard to be seen as credible, if you can't remember what I posted just the other day. El Puerco is a derogatory term too, not to be confused with idol worship...no habla español?

Here's a refresher:

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Bush goes nuts, Chavez goes nuts, people go nuts...nuts begat more nuts
Leninist model is a proven failure


So if you don't want to be seen as only having the ability to cry over spilt milk, then what's the solution? Still waiting....


[edit on 19-1-2007 by Regenmacher]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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What the hell?

Didnt I log into ABOVETOPSECRET?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

And I thought people want to know something new, and find out all sorts of conspiracies and try to look behind the curtain - but I guess I was wrong. If you people belive that atheists can NOT be freemasons, they you are severly mistaken. Most of the political figures and other people with power are freemasons - and not all of them belive in god or jesus or buddha or allah or moses. Stalin was a freemason. Tito was a freemason. Fidel is a freemason. Chavez is a freemasn. Chiraq is a freemason. Blair is a freemason. Bush is a freemason. Clinton is a freemason. JFK was a freemason. Pinochet was a freemason. Actually it is very hard to find somebody that is NOT a freemason.

And I rather belive mister Leo Zagami about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I rather belive mister David Icke about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I rather belive mister Jordan Maxwell about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I also know that there are several agents on this board - working for god-knows-who.

So please, do not pretend how honest you are about your quest for truth, which you only use as a smoke screen to furher push your whatever agenda. I was living in a socialistic regime too you know.

[edit on 19/1/07 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by SouljahStalin was a freemason. Tito was a freemason. Fidel is a freemason. Chavez is a freemasn. Chiraq is a freemason. Blair is a freemason. Bush is a freemason. Clinton is a freemason. JFK was a freemason. Pinochet was a freemason. Actually it is very hard to find somebody that is NOT a freemason.

And I rather belive mister Leo Zagami about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I rather belive mister David Icke about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I rather belive mister Jordan Maxwell about freemasonary stuff then from members here.

And I also know that there are several agents on this board - working for god-knows-who.

So please, do not pretend how honest you are about your quest for truth, which you only use as a smoke screen to furher push your whatever agenda. I was living in a socialistic regime too you know.

[edit on 19/1/07 by Souljah]


Actually Souljah, if you look into it, the men you refered to are NOT Freemasons. They've been discussed at length in the Secret Societies forum. But if you don't care what members have to say, why are you even here?

BTW, you don't have to look to far to find a non-Mason.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher

I think you need to go back and read my posts, I already said Chavez was nuts several posts ago and now you pretend to suddenly develop short term memory problems . Kind of hard to be seen as credible, if you can't remember what I posted just the other day.
El Puerco is a derogatory term too, not to be confused with idol worship...no habla español?


It is pretty clear what you were trying to do Rainmaker... The "Bay of Pigs" has nothing to do with this discussion last time i checked, and it is clear you were trying to be a condescending smart ass. Since noone said anything about "invading Venezuela," it is your "credibility" that has taken a dump with the "puercos".

And btw, I was speaking in Spanish before your momma was wiping your behind kid.

Now, are we going to stay on topic and discuss what Chavez is doing to Venezuela, or do you want to derail the thread some more with your condescending rhetoric?



Originally posted by Regenmacher

So if you don't want to be seen as only having the ability to cry over spilt milk, then what's the solution? Still waiting....


Rainmaker, perhaps you don't know it yet but the solution is certainly not "trying to derail the topic" whenever you feel like it... Knowing the truth about Chavez is a start.

When people who think he is "a good man fighting for the people" realize the truth by reading the facts, then at least some people will change their minds, and that's a lot better than just allowing more lies being spread about "how good Chavez is, and how good the revolution is going to be for the rest of the world"...

Perhaps the Rainmaker thinks that it is a better idea not to say the truth about Chavez, and just to keep bashing the United States everytime some dictator decides to "spread the revolution around the world"?....

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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You bashed my assessment of how I thought you would solve Venezuela's problems and have yet to provide an alternative...or did I actually guess your idea?

This is the third time you have stalled, so what's the solution? Still waiting...



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
You bashed my assessment of how I thought you would solve Venezuela's problems and have yet to provide an alternative...or did I actually guess your idea?

This is the third time you have stalled, so what's the solution? Still waiting...


Do you actually have some problem with reading comprehension?.... I already stated the reason for giving the information about Chavez....

Knowledge is power, and the more people know who Chavez is, what the "revolution" is really all about, and the goals that people like Chavez have, will make sure not only that people are aware of the truth, but it is less likely they will believe the "revolutionary lies", and knowing the truth would also help put a stop to the "revolutionary agenda"......

Or as I asked before, do you think that it is better if people don't know the truth about Chavez, and other "revolutionaries" as well as their goal of "spreading the revolution to every country"?....

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Or as I asked before, do you think that it is better if people don't know the truth about Chavez, and other "revolutionaries" as well as their goal of "spreading the revolution to every country"?....


If they are so foolish to spread a failed model of beaucracy to other countries, they also will get a hard lesson and cave in. Took Russia awhile to figure it out too and everyone learns at their own pace.

As for what us gringos think is truth: I doubt Venezuelans read much if anything on ATS, I don't expect them to listen either, the US has destroyed its credibility, they have been conned too many times by gringos, and their blood is thicker than our water.

So no, I don't see how calling Chavez more names, spreading known propaganda, and stinking up the truth with spin and emotionalisms helps South Americans or the market economy...all that does is make them more entrenched, polarized, pissed off and drives up prices. Stick to the unreputable facts and leave out the craps... good prevails without spin.

Give him enough rope and he will hang himself:
Hugo Chávez, the media and everybody else
Council on Hemispheric Affairs








[edit on 19-1-2007 by Regenmacher]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 11:06 PM
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"spreading more propaganda"?...

Rainmaker, it appears that the cry baby throwing emotional fits is you... Everything I stated I backed with facts including excerpting statements from Chavez himself....

As for "all this is only making things worse".... that claim of yours is the "propaganda, and the lies"...



[edit on 19-1-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Rainmaker, it appears that the cry baby throwing emotional fits is you... Everything I stated I backed with facts including excerpting statements from Chavez himself....


So now you want to start in with the personally directed insults, yet again!

You call people names, make up fiction about them, put words in their mouths, post from unreputable sources and have even received a moderator warning in this thread for this very behavior. Thus you invalidated all your efforts, even if it is based on some truth, because you actually reflect the very same behavior you dislike in Chavez.

Driving off members, creating a hostile learning enviroment and creating animosity where there never was any before convinces no one and tells others they should learn to avoid you, put you on ignore, report you and/or distrust anything you say.




[edit on 20-1-2007 by Regenmacher]





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