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Pre-Sumerian Civilizations of Ancient Ukraine (20,000 BCE)

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posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:28 AM
a reply to: Harte

Yes, it's a higher standard than a lot of people around here use, but that IS the standard and has been for a century. Misuse of the word "civilization" is rampant on boards like this. And that's okay sometimes.
But not when somebody tries to compare an ancient culture to an ancient civilization, thinking they've "disproven the experts."

If a person wants to claim the experts are wrong about the rise of civilizations and which are the oldest, that person is obligated to use the same standard as anthropologists use.

I love it when you rub it in... yes, I'm the poster boy of Byrd's memo on the official definition of civilization.

If they don't, it's like saying "My chicken is a horse, and that proves that not all horses have four legs."

If you'll permit me to suggest a more apt analogy, maybe a dog instead of a chicken? Both are four legged, I might need a new pair of glasses for mistaking a dog for a horse from a distance... a chicken is too much unless...

posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:34 AM
a reply to: Byrd

I understand it's frustrating but it shows the need for a clear definition. The average person, like Tim and Heatherlee Hooker, doesn't understand the difference.

If you are a researcher, exact definitions are a necessary tool to make sure you are comparing two things that are alike. The definition I use comes from researchers... specifically anthropology and archaeology.

If frustration and humiliation is the price to pay in order to learn, I'll gladly accept it yet again. Much obliged.

posted on Aug, 16 2017 @ 05:49 AM
Apologies for the late reply.

If an English speaking person was asked today and presented part of Beowulf's manuscripts, will that person recognize that it was Old English? How about manuscripts of The Canterbury Tales of Geoffrey Chaucer or a specimen of Shakespeare's handwritting?

Certainly people will recognize these examples as related, yet dissimilar, languages. Importantly, it is clear that the alphabet in use (Latin) is the same. This does not compare appropriately to the "proto-Sumerian" claim, wherein the symbols are neither clear nor the same as what we know to be proto-Sumerian.

I think that we can all agree that it is a contentious topic but can't we at least agree that there might be some artifacts out there that could be older than what is presently generally accepted? If not from the Ukraine, maybe in Iran, Turkey or even China?

I have yet to meet an archaeologist who is against the idea that history can be "pushed back", so to speak. However, the people typically promoting this idea are neither scholarly archaeologists nor anthropologists. They tend to be authors looking to make a quick fortune by pandering to an audience craving mystery.

In reality objects are found relatively frequently which change notions of development.
Discovery of oldest metal object in Middle East

The awl suggests people in the area started using metals as early as 5100 B.C., several centuries earlier than previously thought.

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