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What Level Of Skill Was Required To Fly A Plane Into The Pentagon ?

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posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:20 PM
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Agreed enough debating for today, i try look for that page the famous page 14




posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:33 PM
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Starboard engine was this high.




port engine was this high.




Rusty Aimer is a United pilot



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches off the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph
edit on 20-7-2017 by Jacobu12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12



That's the pic you posted earlier in the argument about 'blue tints'
Note carefully the position of the engines in relation to the fuselage IE the centre shaft of the turbine is barely below the bottom of the fuselage so, assuming an engine diameter of 8', there'll be maybe 4.5' of engine to add to the fuselage height of about 12.5' giving us a height of 17' roughly from the bottom of the engines to the top of the fuselage.

The 20.5' figure is from the bottom of the wheels to the top of the fuselage. Also note that the wheels will be a bit higher on the ground because the weight of the plane compresses the suspension/shock absorbers.

Now, if the bottom of the engine is within 1-2' of the ground, how far above ground would the keel beam I mentioned be?

This is getting a bit tiresome - might have to join Zaphod at the bar for a break myself


I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)




There's probably a margin of error on those measurements. However, it does well for you to point out the plane hit at the lowest possible point it could reach. Even lower, probably, than if it had been attempting to land at that exact spot.

I keep hearing the term "sharp shooter fallacy", and that is a good thing to be cautious of, but impacting at the exact minimum possible elevation is basically hitting a "bulls eye" in terms of height of impact is pretty impressive.

That is something a computerized pilot would do well.

A human pilot might find it more challenging.


More important that the question of whether Hani *could* do that, though, is the question of whether he *would*

Nobody has given a satisfactory reason for why a human suicide pilot CHOSE to make a complicated maneuver at high speed, when a much simpler maneuver at lower speeds would have sufficed.

Why risk failing the mission?



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Look at the radio altitudes i posted. He spent a split second at that altitude.

6 seconds before impact he was 273' up in the air.

10 seconds before impact he was 621' up in the air.
edit on 20-7-2017 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:38 PM
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As you can see in the picture, damage to the building extends pretty much all the way to the bottom of ground level.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:42 PM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12



That's the pic you posted earlier in the argument about 'blue tints'
Note carefully the position of the engines in relation to the fuselage IE the centre shaft of the turbine is barely below the bottom of the fuselage so, assuming an engine diameter of 8', there'll be maybe 4.5' of engine to add to the fuselage height of about 12.5' giving us a height of 17' roughly from the bottom of the engines to the top of the fuselage.

The 20.5' figure is from the bottom of the wheels to the top of the fuselage. Also note that the wheels will be a bit higher on the ground because the weight of the plane compresses the suspension/shock absorbers.

Now, if the bottom of the engine is within 1-2' of the ground, how far above ground would the keel beam I mentioned be?

This is getting a bit tiresome - might have to join Zaphod at the bar for a break myself


I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)




There's probably a margin of error on those measurements. However, it does well for you to point out the plane hit at the lowest possible point it could reach. Even lower, probably, than if it had been attempting to land at that exact spot.

I keep hearing the term "sharp shooter fallacy", and that is a good thing to be cautious of, but impacting at the exact minimum possible elevation is basically hitting a "bulls eye" in terms of height of impact is pretty impressive.

That is something a computerized pilot would do well.

A human pilot might find it more challenging.


More important that the question of whether Hani *could* do that, though, is the question of whether he *would*

Nobody has given a satisfactory reason for why a human suicide pilot CHOSE to make a complicated maneuver at high speed, when a much simpler maneuver at lower speeds would have sufficed.

Why risk failing the mission?


Sure i got it wrong at the start i forget to take into account the entire engine is not totally below the fuselage. I thank Zaphod for that correction.

But either way the plane at 20 feet, space left is going to be minimal. I think 2 feet at most would be taken away. 12 4 for the fuselage+ 8 feet 10 inches (engine) minus 2 feet= 6 feet+



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Look at the radio altitudes i posted. He spent a split second at that altitude.


6 seconds before impact he was 273' up in the air.

10 seconds before impact he was 621' up in the air.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:55 PM
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In the ongoing back and forth, did ya decide if there exists any marks at all where the 211's hit.....if ya say they disintegrated ok....that's for later....but are there marks in any pic of the cleared floor there ....I have one pic.....it seems smooth and shiny, easily seen right up to the edge even

ditby]edit on 20-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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The specs seem to show about a 5 foot difference between the bottom of the fuselage and the bottom of the engine. So the left engine would appear to be below ground level at aircraft 4 foot. But since the left engine hit the wall and most likely loss some diameter then the clearance could have been raise.

Then there is ground slope, plane flight path slope, etc.

It would seem to make it fit within the claimed reality. Other can try the numbers.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: GBP/JPY
In the ongoing back and forth, did ya decide if there exists any marks at all where the 211's hit.....if ya say they disintegrated ok....that's for later....but are there marks in any pic of the cleared floor there ....I have one pic.....it seems smooth and shiny, easily seen right up to the edge even

ditby]edit on 20-7-2017 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)


Yes we showed where both engines hit just a few post up. Are you not paying attention.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Look at the radio altitudes i posted. He spent a split second at that altitude.


6 seconds before impact he was 273' up in the air.

10 seconds before impact he was 621' up in the air.




www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
This is the final maneuver performed by the aircraft which hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 according to the govt story. This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft. It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB. Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB.

Remember Hani could not control a small plane21 days before 9/11. Ignore the dumb writing, just observe the flying. The guy is even coming in too high at the end and watch the clock.



edit on 20-7-2017 by Jacobu12 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-7-2017 by Jacobu12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Look at the radio altitudes i posted. He spent a split second at that altitude.


6 seconds before impact he was 273' up in the air.

10 seconds before impact he was 621' up in the air.




www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
This is the final maneuver performed by the aircraft which hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 according to the govt story. This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft. It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB. Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB.

Remember Hani could not control a small plane21 days before 9/11. Ignore the dumb writing, just observe the flying. The guy is even coming in too high at the end and watch the clock.




I've seen it. At no time does he spend 6 to 10 seconds flying at 10 to 20 inches off the ground. Where did you get these numbers? These are numbers you made up and posted.

My numbers are accurate and come from AA77s FDR readout.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Look at the radio altitudes i posted. He spent a split second at that altitude.


6 seconds before impact he was 273' up in the air.

10 seconds before impact he was 621' up in the air.




www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
This is the final maneuver performed by the aircraft which hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 according to the govt story. This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft. It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB. Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB.

Remember Hani could not control a small plane21 days before 9/11. Ignore the dumb writing, just observe the flying. The guy is even coming in too high at the end and watch the clock.




I've seen it. At no time does he spend 6 to 10 seconds flying at 10 to 20 inches off the ground. Where did you get these numbers? These are numbers you made up and posted.

My numbers are accurate and come from AA77s FDR readout.



This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft.

What it shows is the flight path and shows how difficult this flying would be even for an expert. You see how hard that dive is to get down low enough to hit the target.. i just cant see how an amateur got lucky with this?



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft.

What it shows is the flight path and shows how difficult this flying would be even for an expert. You see how hard that dive is to get down low enough to hit the target.. i just cant see how an amateur got lucky with this?


Thats what you see. I see a crappy pilot, make a huge crappy uncoordinated slipping turn, He doesn't maintain pitch attitude during the turn so his speed varies. He lines up with his target and fixates on it. Then makes crappy overcorrections all the way to impact. There was nothing skilled about his flying, there was nothing difficult in the manoeuvre. Target fixation is all he needed to hit the pentagon.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 11:23 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

This animation was provided by the NTSB and is accurate in terms of the flight data recorder on board this aircraft.




These numbers come from the same flight data recorder. If you want to use that video as evidence, then you also have to accept these numbers also.


The last 10 seconds of RADIO ALTITUDE go: 621', 492', 416', 352', 273', 233', 183', 89', 57', 4'

Note: the last reading (4') is less than one second before impact.


That means you can no longer say he was flying along inches above the ground for seconds at a time.



posted on Jul, 20 2017 @ 11:28 PM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches of the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


Are you going to admit to us that you made these numbers up and have no source for them.


No, of course your not.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:16 AM
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originally posted by: Jacobu12

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Jacobu12

I estimated higher about 18+ feet. I took away 2 feet as the engines are close to 9 feet below the Wing. How many feet do you take off. At 20 feet the plane is hitting the ground (no space)



Even at 18', with the wheels up the engine's still clearing the ground by over a foot.


Sure, what interesting to me is he was able to control an airliner for 6 to 10 seconds, with no experience flying this plane, and he was just 12 maybe 20 inches off the ground?

Count 6 or 10 seconds that's a long time when you flying at 530mph


If you ever operated a system, a second can seem a long time....


www.www.scienceabc.com...
Title: The Human Brain vs. Supercomputers… Which One Wins?


At the time of this writing, the fastest supercomputer in the world is the Tianhe-2 in Guangzhou, China, and has a maximum processing speed of 54.902 petaFLOPS. A petaFLOP is a quadrillion (one thousand trillion) floating point calculations per second. That’s a huge amount of calculations, and yet, that doesn’t even come close to the processing speed of the human brain.

In contrast, our miraculous brains operate on the next order higher. Although it is impossible to precisely calculate, it is postulated that the human brain operates at 1 exaFLOP, which is equivalent to a billion billion calculations per second.



posted on Jul, 21 2017 @ 04:19 AM
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a reply to: Jacobu12

Can you explain how controlling the flight surfaces on a 757 are an order of magnitude different than other jets and planes?



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